1st-round China-Afghanistan-Pakistan Trilateral Strategic Dialogue

karn

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Afghans hate indians as much as Pakistanis, Iranis ot Russians. It's a very closed, orthodox and etno-centric society, very judgemental on almost everything.

The afghans living in India might appear happy and pro India, just wait till they get their European, American or Canadian visas and see how they spew venom about everything that is Indian.
Those Afghans that hate based on religion is a separate issue . Indians are well liked in Afghanistan proper . On the other hand Pakistanis specifically Punjabi Pakistanis are hated .
 
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Neo

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Afghans hate Indians?

Come again.

Let us not take the ISI terrorists and agents to be Afghans.
Try to interact with Afghans who have migrated to the west via India. Not everyone is an arse licker like Karzai.
 

karn

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Try to interact with Afghans who have migrated to the west via India. Not everyone is an arse licker like Karzai.
Gotta love anecdotal evidence . So let me guess you met Afghans that spent time in India and they hate India .. Such a broad sample ...
 

Neo

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Still less than India . Besides let us wait till April things will become clearer.
There is no extra significance of the trilateral meeting it was an expected continuation .
India clings to Iran the same way China clings to Pakistan. Afghanistan is very happy to have Chabahar as an alternative .
Afghanistan warns Pak over Wagah border access
India has lost in Afghanistan once again, accept it! The current govt will not be fooled by Indians to fight their proxy war. Ashraf Ghani understands the importance of good and friendly relations with the neighbors is the key to a stable and prosperous Afghanistan.

Whatever India can do in Afghanistan, China can do it better.
 

karn

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India has lost in Afghanistan once again, accept it! The current govt will not be fooled by Indians to fight their proxy war. Ashraf Ghani understands the importance of good and friendly relations with the neighbors is the key to a stable and prosperous Afghanistan.

Whatever India can do in Afghanistan, China can do it better.
Sure I'll accept it after april/may when Afghanistan faces the taliban summer offensive it is then when all the Pakistani assurances will be put to the test . Ghanis visit to India then will give us clues as to the direction of Afghan foreign policy.
 

Neo

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Those Afghans that hate based on religion is a separate issue . Indians are well liked in Afghanistan proper . On the other hand Pakistanis specifically Punjabi Pakistanis are hated .
Not every Afghan hates Pakistan. Many many of them have made a good fortune and a good living in Pakistan, they have succesful businesses and they've created thousands of jobs. For many of them Pakistan is their new homeland. Visit the elite Edward colege in Peshawar. Half the students are Afghans and they have well adapted to system and society.
 

Neo

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Gotta love anecdotal evidence . So let me guess you met Afghans that spent time in India and they hate India .. Such a broad sample ...
There's a sizeable Afghan community in western Europe including the Benelux. Majority have travelled via Pakistan but many of them spent years in India or Iran before migrating to the west. Their love for India is restricted to Bollywood and Indian cuisine.
 

Sambha ka Boss

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India has lost in Afghanistan once again, accept it! The current govt will not be fooled by Indians to fight their proxy war. Ashraf Ghani understands the importance of good and friendly relations with the neighbors is the key to a stable and prosperous Afghanistan.

Whatever India can do in Afghanistan, China can do it better.
How is Ashraf Ghani's understanding relations with Pakistan is a loss for India. :toilet: After, you guys are still obsessed with Strategic Depth in Afghanistan.
 

karn

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There's a sizeable Afghan community in western Europe including the Benelux. Majority have travelled via Pakistan but many of them spent years in India or Iran before migrating to the west. Their love for India is restricted to Bollywood and Indian cuisine.
So anecdotal evidence .
 

Neo

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Sure I'll accept it after april/may when Afghanistan faces the taliban summer offensive it is then when all the Pakistani assurances will be put to the test . Ghanis visit to India then will give us clues as to the direction of Afghan foreign policy.
Afghan Talebans are no longer controlled by Pakistan, not since we were made to join the US led WoT at gunpoint and let the Americans use our territory against them. The diplomatic channel however is still intact and Gen Shareef's focus is on reconciliation with them as well as between the Taleban and Kabul. If there's a summer offensive, Kabul has the insurance that Pakistan will only mediate since we're fighting the TTP too and remain as vulnerable as them.
 

Neo

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Sure I'll accept it after april/may when Afghanistan faces the taliban summer offensive it is then when all the Pakistani assurances will be put to the test . Ghanis visit to India then will give us clues as to the direction of Afghan foreign policy.
Afghan Talebans are no longer controlled by Pakistan, not since we were made to join the US led WoT at gunpoint and let the Americans use our territory against them. The diplomatic channel however is still intact and Gen Shareef's focus is on reconciliation with them as well as between the Taleban and Kabul. If there's a summer offensive, Kabul has the insurance that Pakistan will only mediate since we're fighting the TTP too and remain as vulnerable as them.
 

karn

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Afghan Talebans are no longer controlled by Pakistan, not since we were made to join the US led WoT at gunpoint and let the Americans use our territory against them. The diplomatic channel however is still intact and Gen Shareef's focus is on reconciliation with them as well as between the Taleban and Kabul. If there's a summer offensive, Kabul has the insurance that Pakistan will only mediate since we're fighting the TTP too and remain as vulnerable as them.
The Afghans disagree , the leadership of the afghan taliban remains within Pakistan . It is entirely possible that the taliban is wiped out by Afghan and Pakistan co operation . If not we will see it in the tone of Ghanis visit to India in April/May.
 

Neo

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The Afghans disagree , the leadership of the afghan taliban remains within Pakistan . It is entirely possible that the taliban is wiped out by Afghan and Pakistan co operation . If not we will see it in the tone of Ghanis visit to India in April/May.
TTP leadership is roaming freely in Afghanistan, we both have same interests and same security issues and we are well aware of a bigger threat coming from ISIS which is a lot worse and barbaric than AQ. Ghani may try to gain political and financial support from every corner of the world, he and Abdullah agree that a major shift in foreign policy is required involving direct neighbors. India is not a neighbor.
 

Ray

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Try to interact with Afghans who have migrated to the west via India. Not everyone is an arse licker like Karzai.
Why talk to those who have quit Afghanistan, when one has spoken to the Afghans who were around the periphery of the 217 kilometre Delaram–Zaranj Highway, or Route 606?
 

Ray

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Your views are biased and subjective as ever, you know zilch about Pakistan. You parade all over the forum preeching your 'expert' opinion fooling and feeding trolls and hatemongers and promoting misperception only because you're obsessed with Pakistan. You may have retired but your war never ended...
I have visited Pakistan even before you were born. Just to let you know.

My war was never there, even when I was in service. Anger and hate clouds the mind and one cannot afford that luxury in war.

My professional interest has made me study some countries with greater detail that others, and here I am only clearing the propaganda that folks like you wish to trot out as 'real Pakistan'.

Who encouraged the refugees to come to NWFP? Afghanistan? India? the US?

It was a neat ploy so that you could milk the US in all forms to sustain your failing country.

You were always a retainer of Saudi Arabia blackmail them with religious affinity and living off its munificence.

Remember the stink that was raised when Saudi Arabia had granted Pakistan a "free oil facility" in 1998 in the wake of its nuclear tests and economic sanctions imposed by the US and European nations?

What about this?

The incoming government of newly elected Nawaz Sharif is seeking a soft loan from Saudi Arabia of $4bn-$5bn to avert a balance of payments crisis and boost electricity supplies, while Pakistan agrees a new programme with the International Monetary Fund.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/015e1ede-c44b-11e2-9ac0-00144feab7de.html#axzz3Qr2fxp6B
Since you know practically nothing of your country, indeed China has quit embarking on the power project of Pakistan
China quits $1.5bn Pakistan coal project

The Shenhua Group Corp of China is quitting the US$1.5 billion Thar coal project in Pakistan. The Chinese firm has decided to roll back its plan for setting up coal-fired power plants at Thar in the Pakistani province of Sindh. The decision is considered a major setback for the South Asian country, which is facing a serious power shortage. The project was expected to add 1,000 megawatts to the national power grid in three years.

The decision to withdraw power generation at Thar coal sites was



made by the firm in a recent meeting in China with a Pakistani delegation. The main reason for the company's withdrawal is the power tariff rate offered by Pakistan, which the Chinese side deemed insufficient to continue power generation. Security and domestic workload have reportedly been cited as the other reasons that forced the company to drop its plan.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/IE18Df04.html
Here also you want everything practically free. Even the Chinese who are very accommodating as far as Pakistan is concerned, gave up. They realised that your country is only suitable for alms and that was not feasible for China to cough up.

Not every Afghan hates Pakistan. Many many of them have made a good fortune and a good living in Pakistan, they have succesful businesses and they've created thousands of jobs. For many of them Pakistan is their new homeland. Visit the elite Edward colege in Peshawar. Half the students are Afghans and they have well adapted to system and society.
Ask the Hazaras who came as refugees as to how loving the Pakistanis are.


I would not claim to be an expert on Pakistan, but I am good enough in knowledge to showcase Pakistanis who are not even aware of the shenanigans of their own country and who wish to pull wool over the eyes of others.
 
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SADAKHUSH

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Afghans hate indians as much as Pakistanis, Iranis ot Russians. It's a very closed, orthodox and etno-centric society, very judgemental on almost everything.

The afghans living in India might appear happy and pro India, just wait till they get their European, American or Canadian visas and see how they spew venom about everything that is Indian.
Are you able to read their minds form your location? Have you met any Afghan who has told you about his/her feeling towards India? If not than let me tell you of my experience with Afghan national who have moved to Canada, I have been told by them about their positive experience while in India and they consider it to be their second home.

We already know where they stand on their experience in Pakistan and China will show them their colour sooner or later. It will be same in taste as Africans and South Americans have experienced.
 

amoy

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Afghan Peace Envoy met Taliban in Secret China Talks - Wall Street Journal
May 24, 2015

Meeting was facilitated by Pakistani intelligence agency

KABUL—Afghanistan’s most prominent peace envoy held secret talks with former Taliban officials in China last week, accelerating regional efforts to bring the insurgency to the negotiating table, according to individuals briefed on the matter by the warring parties.

The two-day meeting, which took place in the northwestern Chinese city of Urumqi, was aimed at discussing preconditions for a possible peace process, those people said.

“These were talks about talks,” one diplomat said.

The meeting was significant for another reason: It was facilitated by Pakistan’s intelligence agency in an apparent show of goodwill aimed at a negotiated solution to the insurgency.

People familiar with the meeting said Chinese officials and representatives of Pakistan’s spy agency—the Inter-Services Intelligence directorate, or ISI—also attended the talks on May 19 and 20 in Urumqi, the capital of China’s western Xinjiang region. Chinese and Pakistani officials weren’t immediately reachable for comment.

Members of Afghanistan’s peace-negotiating body frequently hold informal meetings with the Taliban, but such high-level interactions are unusual.

The meetings come after a monthslong diplomatic outreach led by Afghan Presiden tAshraf Ghani to reset ties with Pakistan after years of frosty relations in a bid to revive talks aimed at ending Afghanistan’s 13-year war.

Pakistan’s support is widely seen as critical for a peace process to work. Much of the Taliban leadership has been based in Pakistan since 2001, and its fighters have used the lawless border areas between the two countries as an operational base.

Afghan and Western officials have long accused Pakistan of effectively controlling the Taliban insurgency, an allegation Islamabad has repeatedly denied even as it acknowledges it has some influence over the movement.

The location of the meeting is also key. In recent months, China has moved closer to the role of mediator in the Afghan conflict, interacting more with the Kabul government and the Taliban insurgency to discuss the possibility of starting peace talks. The Urumqi meeting signals the Chinese diplomatic outreach may be gaining traction.

Past efforts to bring the Taliban to the negotiating table have failed. In June 2013, the Taliban opened a political office in the Gulf emirate of Qatar as part of a U.S.-backed effort to start formal talks. That effort collapsed after the Taliban opened an office with the trappings of a government-in-exile, infuriating then-Afghan President Hamid Karzai.

The Afghan delegation in China was led by Mohammad Masoom Stanikzai, who until last week was the most prominent member of the High Peace Council, the country’s peace-negotiating body. Mr. Stanikzai was nominated on Thursday as minister of defense, a position that needs parliamentary approval. He wasn’t immediately available to comment on the meeting in China.

Mohammad Asem, a former lawmaker and associate of Mr. Ghani’s coalition partner,Abdullah Abdullah, also participated in the Urumqi meeting.

The three former senior Taliban officials who attended—Mullah Abdul Jalil, Mullah Mohammad Hassan Rahmani and Mullah Abdul Razaq— are based in Pakistan and they are close to the Taliban’s Quetta-based leadership council.

Maulvi Qalamuddin, a former top Taliban official, said the meeting represented a very-high level effort to discuss peace.

“These people are more important than those in Qatar,” said Mr. Qalamuddin, who is now a member of the High Peace Council. “These talks are held secretly, and only a few people know about it.”

It is far from clear, however, whether the talks in Urumqi could lead to formal negotiations. In an official communication on Sunday evening, the Taliban denied the meeting took place. But the group frequently makes public denials about peace overtures, while privately confirming outreach.

People familiar with the movement said the three Taliban who attended the China talks have strong ties to Pakistan’s spy agency, and that they are not authorized to speak on behalf on the insurgency about reconciliation.

“They are all very close to the ISI and they have no mandate from the leadership to talk about peace,” said a person briefed on the meeting.

The Taliban have previously said that only the members of the group’s Qatar-based political commission are allowed to participate in peace-related efforts. Earlier this month, members of the commission held informal discussions with Afghan officials and civic activists in Qatar, an effort that participants said could eventually pave the way to a formal peace process.

A peace deal is still distant, however. The Taliban are pressing a countrywide offensive that is causing high casualties on both sides, and the fighting is unlikely to end soon. The insurgency still insists that all foreign troops should leave Afghanistan as a precondition for negotiations to begin.

The Urumqi meeting took place days after the ISI signed an agreement aimed at improving intelligence cooperation with Afghanistan’s spy agency, the National Directorate of Security.

But Pakistan—and its intelligence apparatus in particular—is viewed with deep mistrust by Afghans.

News of the deal provoked a dramatic backlash in Afghanistan, dividing the country’s political leadership and leading to accusations the Kabul government had sold out Afghanistan’s national interest to an enemy.
 

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