1962 China war can't be repeated: Indian Army chief

Virendra

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I think it would be better to :
a) not let the Chinese punch through Himalayas, thereby keeping a stalemate in land war.
b) steal initiative in the water and choke their naval supplies.
 
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I think it would be better to :
a) not let the Chinese punch through Himalayas, thereby keeping a stalemate in land war.
b) steal initiative in the water and choke their naval supplies.
I doubt much would happen on the naval side but if it does during the Malabar
exercises India and USA practiced blocking off 3 choke points in Mallacca straits.
 

Virendra

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It is up to the warring sides where they up the ante.
We should play to our strengths and try set the course of war accordingly.
China banks on first strike against India. If that didn't cripple us, the war would lead to a stalemate.
 

satish007

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why it should be repeated, now Indian and Chinese economics are growing fastest in the world. we should bhai bhai, but yes, very hard to forget history which caused by England and misunderstanding between Indian and Chinese. Descendants should smart enough to avoid war, mouth fighting is ok if some young men or politicians want to do something. that why more defence forums needed.
 

roma

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I think if India and China are facing a coming war within next 3-5 yrs, the situation for India would even worse than 1962, reasons: 2. Geographic advantage: ..... Now let's assume a 300km-500km short range of missile or aircraft would attack your most important city New Delhi, but from India you might need 1500km-2000km weapon to hit our important west city like Chengdu (which is still not that important to China's political and industry core capability). If you considering the cost ratio between 300km to 1500km weapon, China no doubt has better sustainability.
..............oh how i really love to reply to this point

yeah so they cant reach your not so important chengdu ( or whatever !! :rofl: )

but india has a whole load of missile [ relatively , i said relatively low(er) cost ] - that can easily nuke your honking, shanghai , all your coastal cities and your shangri-la yunan , whatever else

and cause sufficient mayhem to prompt your citizen think ( for the first time perhaps ) and ask why their government got them involved in a totally unnecesary war with an always peaceful neighbour ?
 

satish007

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..............oh how i really love to reply to this point

yeah so they cant reach your not so important chengdu ( or whatever !! :rofl: ) ?
and rockdog did not know India have Chennai, enough for seting up Lastest Delphis.
 

Ripples

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A victory in my view would be a stalemate since most Indians have lost the war mentally before
it has even started. A real victory would be to open another front in Tibet and take large chunks.




long range SAM's which one exactly? SAM's are usually for air defense how will they be fired horizontally?
What good would horizontal fired SAM's be in that terrain? SAM's will provide coverage for air defense
but what about the ground war? SAM's have radar that will be targetted by the Indian side. The skirmish
will last 2 weeks at most IMO. You are over estimating Chinese capability to fight in the terrain. India has
experience fighting in mountains and Snow (siachen).Hoping someone stops the war is not a good strategy.
How will 100km be taken and held?? Do you know how difficult it is to hold even 1km or one hill look at
tiger hill as an example. I don't see armored divisions being effective offensively in that terrain. A shallow thrust
over mountain region is easier said than done. How will a thrust be possible when Chinese are fighting from lower
ground to higher ground?
.



Phalcon AWAC is one of the best Air to ground AWAC in the world what makes you say this??
can you name a better AWAC in this role? Also sukoi's radar will provide some air to ground coverage
as well. A conventional war is the best option for India a missile war would be an escalation that I
don't see happening. If we are short ammunition being the biggest arms buyer in the world there
are many vendors who will supply in a hurry. Don't defeat yourself mentally before a war has even started.

1. We must not forget that for a long time India viewed Tibet as a free country. Only in the recent days GOI has started going equivocal on this issue while carefully maintaining hob nobing with Dalai lama.During any conflict with china if India treats Tibet as a part of china and grab the land by force it will have long term effect on the credibility of India in international politics. Having said this I will try to convey my little knowledge on the technical and military aspects of this issue to show why China is no less capable of defending this part of land which it claims to be its own !!!
2. I was never talking about firing a SAM horizontally as I do know the difference between LR-SAM, QR-SAM, MBRL :) All i was trying to say is that the horizontal coverage provided by some Chinese SAM's can be around 100 km even when the angle of inclination is large enough, so I was basically talking about the opposite scenario to what I ended up conveying to you wrongly. May be its my poor language.
3. When you look at the open source you see that china went for S-300 5V55-series long time ago but when you read into the subsequent development in their so called indigenous program such as HQ-9 & HHQ-9, its very hard to digest that they stopped at buying anything less than S-300PMU2 which has a similar advertised range and performance to HQ-9 therefore its almost evident that they got at least a handful of original S-300PMU2 along with its reversed engineered version in ample numbers.Now as a sweetener you can just ruminate on this old report which I am sure that you have gone through earlier link:Main News of June 27 | World | RIA Novosti this SAM they will be able to provide a much deeper coverage. This link also has a silent good news for India (at least for the near future) and that China might not be doing very well in this field in their own effort otherwise .... so quality of HQ-9 will ever remain a suspect for good :)
4. Certainly Indian armed forces have more fighting experiences in almost every department, yet modern day warfare is not so simplistic in nature. The kind of war that may be forced upon us will not be like the games we have been playing with Pakistan for decades.Their military philosophies are entirely different and lets not compare their capabilities.At present PLA is playing a game with the psych of Indian GOV and its armed forces. They are quietly gathering along the border without making much of fuss (except a few exceptions here & there which I think is just some adrenalin rush among the Chinese men in uniform than any tactics planned at the High level of PLA decision making body in contrary the coming months will see a considerable reduction in these Chinese leasure strolling in Indian territory as china does not want to help Indian in waging a so called global anti china paranoia). They are waiting for some vital military hardware which can help PLA in keeping the incursion & land grabing as low profile as possible.In the meantime china expects India to get a bit comfortable with the PLA sighing at their neck. Assam is The most vulnerable part of India which should be the first in the Chinese list.
5. I never said I am hoping for some Uncle or big daddy to come and save us rather that is the belief of a large number of decision makers in India which I doubt that even you will disagree.
6. I have some rough plans to which PLA may resort in order to launch the offensive against India but the righteousness of my ideas are entirely upon you guys to judge. I will discuss them in detail in later part.
7. See being short of ammo while fighting out cold wars !! with two nuke nations is a sign of systemic diseases. It only shows how much careless our entire system has become and this very thing will decide the fate of any future conflict. I will not be surprised if after a quick skirmish either with Pakistan or China or say both a section of our armed forces reveal that we simply forgot to use certain recently procured hardware as they were not formally handed over or no one ever formally asked for it while other section will blame gov for delayed training and lack of ammo & spare parts.I really don't mind sounding like a paranoid if what I said contains even 1% of truth in it.
8. Shallow thrust over the mountain region will not be a part of initial advancement of PLA. They can cut off the Assam (without capturing it entirely by sending army in the land & just by chocking the chicken neck to make the bell ring as mildly as possible) while keep thrusting along Indian boundary with shallow thrust to any retaliatory steps that IA is bound to take.When we look at the breadth of the neck it will be very difficult for Indian army to defend it for that matter I don't think even US can defend it without escalating the war to the extent which is certainly something that India does not have a capability to enforce.
9. I must be a mad man to question the capability of phalcon in any segment. All I was trying to convey is the fact that the MKI's are top notch when comes to A2A and icing on the cake will be sight when they work with a support of phalcon but what is questionable is MKI's A2G capability and not that of Phalcon's. Here I will tell you what I understand ( feel free to correct me ). Just because a fighter jet is data link enabled it is not obvious that data obtained this way can also be filtered and proceed to the desired accuracy by the Jet. This depends on the specification of mission computer and lots of others things including the exact type of bus material used internal data flow.
10. As per my view Chinese misadventure will mainly depend on few extremely powerful and long range weapons & warning systems for deep and massive penetration in order to shock and awe IA. 1. S 300 SMU2 May be even S 400 (if acquired by then at least in small nos.) Objective: to keep any invading IAF formation into Chinese territory at bay. 2. A-100 MBRL Objective: to quickly smash through the concentrated Indian defenses in the chicken neck & to neutralize all that little bit of old rusted Howitzer IA is left with 3. CJ-10 LACM Objective: to take out long range Indian radars as well as critically placed or fortified SAM installations 4. OTH radars Objective: both B & SW type will be used in tandem to make sure that Phalcon frequency is at least interfered and IAF gets blurred data.The use of OTH-SW type will give PLA the laxury of not using AWACS for a wide range of issues for the rest PLA will resort to UAV's 5. WLR such as SLC-2. Objective: well known 6. Highly advanced UAVs & drones Objective: eavesdrop ,wage EW in the form of ECM , ECCM etc MBRL correction and other fire guidance. Apart from all these well known and mentioned aspects of technology chinese doctrine can indeed think of original solutions to well known puzzles.This should be of another concern for Indian army which until now ( at least in the last 1 decade) have completely failed to impress me as I have always found it to be ill prepared, short of information and idea when it came to smart solutions. I don't pay tax to raise an army to shout "mera bharat mahan" and then die a painful death because of his ill informed and ill prepared careless generals & politicians sent him to fight & leave behind a distressed family in tears whose pain and agony is further canalized by one of the most insensitive,corrupted Gov in the Earth ( it has no political pun, once in the seat party colour hardly matters).
11. I am neither a super hero nor a pussy. I did a bit of independent thinking on my part & certainly I can be wrong but I dont believe that any war can be won with ego. There is a difference between confidence and ego for the later the best examples would be Saddam and Pakistan as a whole. We all know what became of them.Hiding weakness will not protect us. we gotta find the unconventional weaknesses of our enemy, we have to think of ways to use their strength against them, in a nutshell we have to do something unique and unthinkable to stop Chinese aggression and give them a bloody nose, but noting can be better than a NO WAR as we have seen enough blood & I hope the good sense prevails in the world as a whole.
 
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9. I must be a mad man to question the capability of phalcon in any segment. All I was trying to convey is the fact that the MKI's are top notch when comes to A2A and icing on the cake will be sight when they work with a support of phalcon but what is questionable is MKI's A2G capability and not that of Phalcon's. Here I will tell you what I understand ( feel free to correct me ). Just because a fighter jet is data link enabled it is not obvious that data obtained this way can also be filtered and proceed to the desired accuracy by the Jet. This depends on the specification of mission computer and lots of others things including the exact type of bus material used internal data flow.
SU-30 MKI's avionics are israeli and Phalcon AWACS is all Israeli. This would make it ideal to
datalink I could be wrong but this could have been the design when SU-30's were asked to have
Israeli avionics placed in them?

Many of your other points would not be effective because I doubt it would develop into a full fledged
war. It will be a skirmish which involves most artillery and Chinese side will have to work 10 times harder
than Indian side to capture any gains and like I said earlier it will most likely be a short conflict ending in
a stalemate. The terrain would limit the use of missiles it would be more or less artillery and deep down
dirty fighting the kind we Indians have been use too for centuries.
 
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natarajan

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Simple follow pakistan way in this alone, use nuke as retaliation ,if they cross the border and war goes beyond 1 day without withdrawal ,nuke them
.But we need more warheads and better delivery system
 

arya

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Simple follow pakistan way in this alone, use nuke as retaliation ,if they cross the border and war goes beyond 1 day without withdrawal ,nuke them
.But we need more warheads and better delivery system
first time i am agree with you while you have to fight with bigger enemy then you have to use your best weapons .

if they cross there limit we can use the nuke , we are ready for death if they think they can then let them attack on us .
 

arya

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we have to do few thing on vewry urgent mode .

1 deploy the maximum numbers on the near to border not the near to center (delhi)

2 IA is not in condition to give fight to pla so we have to increase our IN and IAF power to counter china .

3 we need fast bullet trains so that on short time we can deploy our soldiers on the border .

4 deploy missile on border as soon as possible

5 either clear MMRCA or cancel it let induct LCA on large number we should increase our squ no
 
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we have to do few thing on vewry urgent mode .

1 deploy the maximum numbers on the near to border not the near to center (delhi)

2 IA is not in condition to give fight to pla so we have to increase our IN and IAF power to counter china .

3 we need fast bullet trains so that on short time we can deploy our soldiers on the border .

4 deploy missile on border as soon as possible

5 either clear MMRCA or cancel it let induct LCA on large number we should increase our squ no
All these things you wrote can take 5-10 more years. The best thing is to open a separate front have Chinese
waste there resources dwindle the supplies and force them into a stalemate or if new front is going well push
for a thrust further.
 

winton

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All these things you wrote can take 5-10 more years. The best thing is to open a separate front have Chinese
waste there resources dwindle the supplies and force them into a stalemate or if new front is going well push
for a thrust further.
where would this new front be? kashmir?

I think the options are rather limited in india.

I've always stated that there are short commings with railway to the front, and I'm glad someone from india agrees with me.
 

roma

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:cool2::cool2:
All these things you wrote can take 5-10 more years. The best thing is to open a separate front have Chinese
waste there resources dwindle the supplies and force them into a stalemate or if new front is going well push
for a thrust further.
Hello there LF, - i think the new front will come in only if the heat really intensifies and the goi has decided or is forced to go for an escalation - the options are open and numerous ( " even if some cant see them " :cool2: ) - and they have serious implications too - crossing the point of no return - gonna be hard to bring it back down if that should happen - we might be talking about the one-third of humanity destroyed as described in the book of revelation ( apocalypse ) ( add up the populations of both nations and it come to approx one-third of humanity as numbers stand today ) - but what choice does anyone have if dragon goes crazy ?
 
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blank_quest

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You think just because you don't Know. Thats why govt. data's are classified for letting the people think.Some people have the habit to rationalize the world view as facts. In time of PM I.K Gujral even cabinet secretary didn't knew that India had Chemical weapons capability. Recently only India has completed the destruction of its Chem Weapons as promised to UN. Just because You don't know doesn't means it doesn't exist!.
 

blank_quest

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You are free to draw you own conclusions by playing Straw man ~! :thumb::rolleyes:
 
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:cool2::cool2:

Hello there LF, - i think the new front will come in only if the heat really intensifies and the goi has decided or is forced to go for an escalation - the options are open and numerous ( " even if some cant see them " :cool2: ) - and they have serious implications too - crossing the point of no return - gonna be hard to bring it back down if that should happen - we might be talking about the one-third of humanity destroyed as described in the book of revelation ( apocalypse ) ( add up the populations of both nations and it come to approx one-third of humanity as numbers stand today ) - but what choice does anyone have if dragon goes crazy ?
There are atleast 3 points where a second front can be opened . I won't go into details
but for clues see where exercises with US special forces were conducted.
 

Ripples

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After watching the 21 mins clip of Chinese tango on Indian soil I just could'nt resist my self from posting on this thread once more. Everyone is so happy in their relentless pursuit of politician and government banging, where as the reality is that the entire system of national security of India has been downplaying this issue for decades. I do have great regard for the men on ground but when it comes to the"decision making body" its the same kind of mess every where irrespective of civil or military institutions in India. We (Including IA) really do not look or sound profession & matured in our intermittent belching out of nonsense burps. India just cant stay quiet, keep its mouth shut and do the needful. We must talk rubbish all the time just like Pakistani army. India has better missile capability, India can take on both Pakistan and China at a time, 1962 can not be repeated , landing of Super Hercules is a big boost are some of the examples. Most of our journalists and news channels are really pathetic and laughable when it comes to the technical and technological evaluation of any kind and more so when its about military issues but still they must keep shitting around every where from news paper to Tv to internet. When Gen.V.K Mallik's letter to PM went public our top brass went into damage control mode immediately by paddling and downplaying the situation where as we do not see a single eye brow raising over the recent & sudden rush in the procurement for shells and tank mounted missiles. Huge contract values for these procurements prove one thing beyond doubt that these are no short terms measures. IA really needed them badly and needed them in large quantity then why the hell did they bullshit us that time? Year after year CAG report has been ignored. Too much political control over the Indian military institutions seem to have taken the steam out of it. No one at the top seem to be really interested about the security any more. Its more about business and career right now. Good luck India.
 
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