1962 China war can't be repeated: Indian Army chief

[Kunal Biswas]

People are discussing about conventional War..

Read the thread before jumping in between with your own conclusions..

 

[Dixit13]

damn you got a bad habit of missing the point .....a missile launched by china towards Delhi (vice-versa), can yr radars tell the difference between what kinda payload the missile is carrying ??? i was replying to ""vishwaprasad """ read that post again wt open mind.

Another thing, their is very big difference between a discussion and debate.......Now say what you say

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Interesting point of view and there is a separate thread to discuss about it..

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...es/41942-nuclear-war-between-india-china.html

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Regarding this thread, Its about IA and conventional warfare..

Further post off-topic will be removed or moved..

 

[Ray]

Please maintain the relevance of the thread.

 

[Dixit13]

Please maintain the relevance of the thread.

Please , Explain???????????

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Thread is about IA and conventional warfare..

 

[Ray]

Keep the nuclear aspect separate for the other thread.

The approach is different.

By discussing separately, we will come to know the what can be done in either cases in the appropriate threads.

 

[Dixit13]

Keep the nuclear aspect separate for the other thread.

The approach is different.

By discussing separately, we will come to know the what can be done in either cases in the appropriate threads.

I agree with you sir.... i was just replying to the threat perception of our member """ vishwaprasad""".....I an't discussing nuclear warfare,....just talking a bit of common sense. :banplease:

Who said:: """Chinese hitting targets near Delhi with cruise missiles is a big worry...we must consider changing our refuelling planes base from Agra to some other place. I am not sure but I think we have stationed all our such planes in Agra which is very vulnerable to Chinese cruise missile attack and will seriously damage capacity of our MKI's to stay longer in the air."""""

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Read Post Number #76

The answer is already given..

 

[LurkerBaba]

^
Use [noparse][/noparse] while replying to a post

 

[Kunal Biswas]

With little knowledge you have about the subject and based on it you use profane language on others members in arguments will not be entertain, further such attempts will meet by more infractions..

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"""Cruise Missiles are common in today`s War, If one have he will surely use it, but its no wonder weapon, First operational during WW2, And its solutions are the same even today.. """ - by Kunal

"""Cruise Missiles are common in today's war""",.... against whom Taliban or Afghanistan insurgents (ROFL). """First operational during WW2""",...you must be referring to Germans V-2 Rockets or V-1 flying bombs , ohh they must be fitted with GPS, satellite navigation, (TERCOM) etc etc....Only if sarcasm has font in this forum.....Only they come not even close to MRLS .

The Mass use of Cruise Missiles in recent was used during 1991 Persian Gulf War, 311-400 Tomahawks were launched. The first salvo was fired by the cruiser USS San Jacinto on January 17, 1991. The attack submarines USS Pittsburgh and USS Louisville followed, During the 2003 invasion of Iraq, more than 725 tomahawk missiles were fired at key Iraqi targets, On 19 March 2011, 124 Tomahawk missiles fired by British forces against at least 20 Libyan targets around Tripoli and Misrata..

Read and Learn :
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/cst/csat13.pdf

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History :

Cruise missile designs fundamentally derive from the German V-1 of World War II. Advances in transistor and computer technology have contributed to self-correcting avionic and aeronautical designs that allow missiles to be guided in flight, as opposed to only at launch. These advances developed into guided missiles and guided bombs, and later into the modern cruise missile.

The common method used back then is to intercept them by fighters and shoot down, Or destroy it by Anti-aircraft fire which is now by SAM and AAA..

Read and Learn:
Defeating Cruise Missiles

 

[EzioAltaïr]

One MUST also note how many PJ-10 batteries we have till date, Only two units are ever created..

Cant say about AGNI-1 which is under SFC, But highly unlikely would be use for tactical means..

I'm not sure how accurate it is, but these are the units which use the missiles you mention.

861 Missile Group: BrahMos Block I in North Rajasthan (It's basically a lesser effective version of Block II)
862 Missile Group: BrahMos Block II in South Rajasthan
863 Missile Group: Can't find any solid info on it.
864 Missile Group: BrahMos Block III in Arunachal Pradesh (the steepest supersonic dive possible can be performed by this missile)

http://www.------------------/brahmos-test-fired-coast-orissa-1501/

Agni I is used by 334 Missile Group at Secunderabad, it is used by Army under the SFC.

MissileThreat :: Agni-1

Agni II is also used by 335 Group at the same city.

MissileThreat :: Agni-2

EDIT: Why is the word Indian Defence banned here?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I'm not sure how accurate it is, but these are the units which use the missiles you mention.

Presently there are only two and third one is under development..

Indian Army Tests BrahMos Missile, Inducts Second Regiment along the Western Border - Defence Now

 

[EzioAltaïr]

Presently there are only two and third one is under development..

Indian Army Tests BrahMos Missile, Inducts Second Regiment along the Western Border - Defence Now

Ok, so I guess my source isn't correct for sure. Any chance you can confirm/disprove the regiment number like 861 or 862)?

 

[arya]

very similar to our pm statement that we will letdown inflation rate in 90 days haa haa what a joke that was and he same type joke army chief cracking

he should do his job and let complete the pending work by last army chief

army need very urgently modernization process ...

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Ok, so I guess my source isn't correct for sure. Any chance you can confirm/disprove the regiment number like 861 or 862)?

Cant say much about it, Don't know much about that..

 

[Ripples]

Yes do you have a better strategy? Aggressors in a any war have to put in
10 times the effort to get victory.

I dont know how are you defining victory here but being a senior member you certainly know that china does not plan for long arduous battle to capture Delhi. Their main objective will be to take a large chunk of indian territory which will provide them a high ground in the bargaining table. Taking into consideration the galactic disparity in the preparation between the two rivals in some of the areas in the border region and the sheer deep penetration capability of PLA it is evident that the initial hours will cause havoc for India. Our only source of merry is the worn out faith in the intervention of foreign powers to stop the war at the early stage before our guns silence out due to shortage of ammunition but we should remember that China is no Pakistan and no one believes that any one of the belligerents will ever resort to nukes therefore its not very likely that any serious and effective international pressure will ever generate to mitigate the skirmish which may very well end up lasting several weeks giving a severe blow to India in every sense possible.Its my personal estimation that China will try to keep this misadventure as low profile as possible with minimum use of Air force. PLA has exceptionally long range SAM's which can very well see at least 100+km (horizontally) into the enemy terittory with considerably low azimuth while itself being behind the international border. This imply that even without the intervention of PLAAF china can provide their advancing troops with a formidable air defense umbrella for more that 100km deep into the indian land. Therefore they will try for a shallow thrust into Indian territory which will be extended over a long distance along the border to capture a large area. Now let us analyze the possible counter strategies of Indian armed forces. As of now we have two main doctrines 1. A naval blocade a malacca strait 2. Use of Air power.
1. Naval blocade : India can certainly force one, with little or no challenge from china for the foreseeable future. Presently PLAN does not have the necessary muscle to break Indian navy as far as malacca, but will it be of any use? suppose a kargil type 2 month mayhem takes place and china decides to take the economic blow? They will certainly begin with enough fuel in their tank ,wont they? I really fail to see how this will give any damn thing to India from a military POV unless this turns out to be WW -III which is a laughable conjecture.
2. Use of Airpower: Ever since IAF got its hand on a good number of SU 30MKI our main counter strike strategies have more or less revolved around this jet. I find it a silly and as an effort to play to the gallery. All we can hope that somehow by using our air force we manage to escalate the situation to the extent that the world stops china.No doubt together with phalcon it is great deterrence for any areal mission but its A2G capabilities are not close to the best which will be of indian interest. Most likely our mki's will not find an enemy in the sky where as the pests will be crawling on the ground.

I often see that people keep talking about the chinese missile prowess and other stuff but I am afraid/happy that china will use none of those & India does not have the capability to engage china in a CONVENTIONAL missile fight so dont expect any kind of escalation from our side in this direction. Due to sheer strategic depth of china this war will be a huge disadvantage for us. Our subsequent army chiefs can go one lying as thats the only thing they seem to be good at but its really very hard to believe that a nation which was under prepared in 2008 & was in shortage of ammunition even in 2011 has suddenly grown strong enough to thwart china in 2012.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

PLA indeed have long range SAM equivalent to S-300, But there range also deployment and effectiveness limited to surrounding Mountains, SAM cannot track aircraft in narrow valleys of mountain passes, further Engagement radar need continues feed from Aircraft to program Missile seeker which is not possible due to Mountains in TAR region..

 

[LETHALFORCE]

. As of now we have two main doctrines 1. A naval blocade a malacca strait 2. Use of Air power.
1. Naval blocade : India can certainly force one, with little or no challenge from china for the foreseeable future. Presently PLAN does not have the necessary muscle to break Indian navy as far as malacca, but will it be of any use? suppose a kargil type 2 month mayhem takes place and china decides to take the economic blow? They will certainly begin with enough fuel in their tank ,wont they? I really fail to see how this will give any damn thing to India from a military POV unless this turns out to be WW -III which is a laughable conjecture.

Let's talk about the first doctrine. A naval blockade would serve no purpose in
the Northeast. But getting back to the point of fuel how long do you think Chinese fuel
supplies be IMO not more than 2 weeks that is why i said earlier the best strategy is
to cut off the fuel supplies.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

. As of now we have two main doctrines 1. A naval blocade a malacca strait 2. Use of Air power.
1. Naval blocade : India can certainly force one, with little or no challenge from china for the foreseeable future. Presently PLAN does not have the necessary muscle to break Indian navy as far as malacca, but will it be of any use? suppose a kargil type 2 month mayhem takes place and china decides to take the economic blow? They will certainly begin with enough fuel in their tank ,wont they? I really fail to see how this will give any damn thing to India from a military POV unless this turns out to be WW -III which is a laughable conjecture.

Let's talk about the first doctrine. A naval blockade would serve no purpose in
the Northeast. But getting back to the point of fuel how long do you think Chinese fuel
supplies be IMO not more than 2 weeks that is why i said earlier the best strategy is
to cut off the fuel supplies.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

I dont know how are you defining victory here but being a senior member you certainly know that china does not plan for long arduous battle to capture Delhi. Their main objective will be to take a large chunk of indian territory which will provide them a high ground in the bargaining table.

A victory in my view would be a stalemate since most Indians have lost the war mentally before
it has even started. A real victory would be to open another front in Tibet and take large chunks.

Taking into consideration the galactic disparity in the preparation between the two rivals in some of the areas in the border region and the sheer deep penetration capability of PLA it is evident that the initial hours will cause havoc for India. Our only source of merry is the worn out faith in the intervention of foreign powers to stop the war at the early stage before our guns silence out due to shortage of ammunition but we should remember that China is no Pakistan and no one believes that any one of the belligerents will ever resort to nukes therefore its not very likely that any serious and effective international pressure will ever generate to mitigate the skirmish which may very well end up lasting several weeks giving a severe blow to India in every sense possible.Its my personal estimation that China will try to keep this misadventure as low profile as possible with minimum use of Air force. PLA has exceptionally long range SAM's which can very well see at least 100+km (horizontally) into the enemy terittory with considerably low azimuth while itself being behind the international border. This imply that even without the intervention of PLAAF china can provide their advancing troops with a formidable air defense umbrella for more that 100km deep into the indian land. Therefore they will try for a shallow thrust into Indian territory which will be extended over a long distance along the border to capture a large area.

long range SAM's which one exactly? SAM's are usually for air defense how will they be fired horizontally?
What good would horizontal fired SAM's be in that terrain? SAM's will provide coverage for air defense
but what about the ground war? SAM's have radar that will be targetted by the Indian side. The skirmish
will last 2 weeks at most IMO. You are over estimating Chinese capability to fight in the terrain. India has
experience fighting in mountains and Snow (siachen).Hoping someone stops the war is not a good strategy.
How will 100km be taken and held?? Do you know how difficult it is to hold even 1km or one hill look at
tiger hill as an example. I don't see armored divisions being effective offensively in that terrain. A shallow thrust
over mountain region is easier said than done. How will a thrust be possible when Chinese are fighting from lower
ground to higher ground?
.

2. Use of Airpower: Ever since IAF got its hand on a good number of SU 30MKI our main counter strike strategies have more or less revolved around this jet. I find it a silly and as an effort to play to the gallery. All we can hope that somehow by using our air force we manage to escalate the situation to the extent that the world stops china.No doubt together with phalcon it is great deterrence for any areal mission but its A2G capabilities are not close to the best which will be of indian interest. Most likely our mki's will not find an enemy in the sky where as the pests will be crawling on the ground.

I often see that people keep talking about the chinese missile prowess and other stuff but I am afraid/happy that china will use none of those & India does not have the capability to engage china in a CONVENTIONAL missile fight so dont expect any kind of escalation from our side in this direction. Due to sheer strategic depth of china this war will be a huge disadvantage for us. Our subsequent army chiefs can go one lying as thats the only thing they seem to be good at but its really very hard to believe that a nation which was under prepared in 2008 & was in shortage of ammunition even in 2011 has suddenly grown strong enough to thwart china in 2012.

Phalcon AWAC is one of the best Air to ground AWAC in the world what makes you say this??
can you name a better AWAC in this role? Also sukoi's radar will provide some air to ground coverage
as well. A conventional war is the best option for India a missile war would be an escalation that I
don't see happening. If we are short ammunition being the biggest arms buyer in the world there
are many vendors who will supply in a hurry. Don't defeat yourself mentally before a war has even started.