16th NAM (Non Aligned Movement) summit in Tehran, Iran

[The Messiah]

i don't claim moral superiority it is worthless any way
but in the big picture off things America is still the "good guy "
they abolished slavery saved the world in two world wars
forced Europe out off colonialism
rebuilt war torn Europe and japan

Forgive me but i have a different opinion on nearly every point you raised.

 

[pack leader]

Forgive me but i have a different opinion on nearly every point you raised.

of course you do you were fed soviet propaganda as reality like most Indians

 

[Cliff@sea]

of course you do you were fed soviet propaganda as reality like most Indians

i thought jews were intelligent if nothing else . . .

please dont speak of what you don't know shit about .

 

[ani82v]

Forgive me but i have a different opinion on nearly every point you raised.

Though I don't consider US doyen of morally right values and actions, but it is somewhat correct.

 

[pack leader]

Forgive me but i have a different opinion on nearly every point you raised.

don't get me wrong no one is perfect
mistakes even big ugly bloody ones like the Vietnam war are a by product off trying to change the world
no country avoids them
Nazism like Communism are a product off evil misguided Europeans who have a tendency to destroy others regardless off consciousnesses in the name of idiolegy in America mass murder has always apposed even if not always prevented

 

[The Messiah]

Though I don't consider US doyen of morally right values and actions, but it is somewhat correct.

No it is not!

They built there nation on slavery and killed nearly all of the original natives of the land. I can name quite a few countries that didn't ship slaves from africa! 80% of the germany military was engaged in the eastern front against russia in ww2. They didn't force europe out of colonialism, the europeans simply couldn't continue due to hitlers antics! plus the yanks wanted to control the resources themselves rather than the europeans. They rebuilt europe from stolen wealth, why didn't they build up africa which has taken the brunt of western barbarism if they are goverened by morality and justice ?

There are no moral reasons for anything they have done, everything was done with the selfish interest of there well being and i wouldn't moan about that if they come clean and said so instead of painting themselves as some houlier than thou saints bringing freedom and democracy to a dark world and all that nonsense.

 

[pack leader]

No it is not!

They built there nation on slavery and killed nearly all of the original natives of the land. I can name quite a few countries that didn't ship slaves from africa! 80% of the germany military was engaged in the eastern front against russia in ww2. They didn't force europe out of colonialism, the europeans simply couldn't continue due to hitlers antics! plus the yanks wanted to control the resources themselves rather than the europeans. They rebuilt europe from stolen wealth, why didn't they build up africa which has taken the brunt of western barbarism if they are goverened by morality and justice ?

There are no moral reasons for anything they have done, everything was done with the selfish interest of there well being and i wouldn't moan about that if they come clean and said so instead of painting themselves as some houlier than thou saints bringing freedom and democracy to a dark world and all that nonsense.

any thing can be excused away but the fact remains

p.s no outside force can rebuild Africa only Africans can do that just like no outside force can build India but Indians themselves

 

[The Messiah]

any thing can be excused away but the fact remains

p.s no outside force can rebuild Africa only Africans can do that just like no outside force can build India but Indians themselves

I like the way you club africa and India together!

But anyway India is re-building itself because outside forces are not looting the country while they're still at it in africa.

 

[ani82v]

No it is not!

They built there nation on slavery and killed nearly all of the original natives of the land. I can name quite a few countries that didn't ship slaves from africa! 80% of the germany military was engaged in the eastern front against russia in ww2. They didn't force europe out of colonialism, the europeans simply couldn't continue due to hitlers antics! plus the yanks wanted to control the resources themselves rather than the europeans. They rebuilt europe from stolen wealth, why didn't they build up africa which has taken the brunt of western barbarism if they are goverened by morality and justice ?

There are no moral reasons for anything they have done, everything was done with the selfish interest of there well being and i wouldn't moan about that if they come clean and said so instead of painting themselves as some houlier than thou saints bringing freedom and democracy to a dark world and all that nonsense.

I agree with every word! I too don't have any respect for holier than thou attitude. Bringing freedom and democracy is important but maintaining economic interests always takes precedence for these countries. But it is still better than Stalinist Communism or Mao's cultural revolution. Its one of the lesser evils.

 

[panduranghari]

not every country can sit on the fence all day pretending to be the UN like India

I could not agree more with the statement above. I hope we get rid of the current lot in power and show the world where we stand on issues. Abstaining from voting is for sissies. And I think India has been a sissy too f***ing long. Hence I advocate India to stand by Syria and Iran. Syria has been India's friend for a long time. Iran will provide oil WHICH WE NEED ANYWAY thus also counter the Wahabbism that is coming into India from Saudi Arabia along with its money. As with regards to Israel, we are friends for a long time so please do not try to defend your American paymasters. And try not be preach as we ain't converted.

typical 3 world attitude it is easy to sit on the sidelines off history hackle and scream
bu in the real world things need to get done choices need to be made of course America makes mistakes it has to make so many choices every day and sometimes there are no good choices

Yes not good choices, I agree. But still they are trying to act as if they are humane. WTF. Does Washington think that the whole world thinks like British do? The world can't wait to get rid of the US dollar and the privileges it gets to wage global wars with repercussions which are felt mostly far away from Washington.

 

[panduranghari]

of course you do you were fed soviet propaganda as reality like most Indians

I pity you.

 

[panduranghari]

I agree with every word! I too don't have any respect for holier than thou attitude. Bringing freedom and democracy is important but maintaining economic interests always takes precedence for these countries. But it is still better than Stalinist Communism or Mao's cultural revolution. Its one of the lesser evils.

Please tell me how are you so sure that Stalinist communism was worse than American Universalism? How can you be sure Mao's cultural revolution was not as bad as American Universalism?

American Universalism is based on Christianising the whole world.

 

[ani82v]

Please tell me how are you so sure that Stalinist communism was worse than American Universalism? How can you be sure Mao's cultural revolution was not as bad as American Universalism?

American Universalism is based on Christianising the whole world.

Are you kidding me.
Even ----ing Gorky pissed in his pants due to fear of Stalin and changed his political positions to just to live.
Millions of educated Chinese and students were made to work in farms for communes and its mismanagement lead to deaths by starving.
Do you think this is propaganda.

Yes, Americans too have cracked down on communists in US in 30s and 40s. All this after completely eliminating Red Indians a couple of century before. I don't consider them angles.
But once they were established, they did have freedom and democracy for its citizens. They are better any day.

 

[average american]

Please tell me how are you so sure that Stalinist communism was worse than American Universalism? How can you be sure Mao's cultural revolution was not as bad as American Universalism?

American Universalism is based on Christianising the whole world.

Right, those pesky christians are a threat world wide, the USA has taken up the cross and we are going to Christianise the whole world. Are you for real?

 

[Cliff@sea]

NAM Summit Backs Iran's Right To Nuclear Energy


September 01, 2012

The 120-nation Non-Aligned Movement has wrapped up its summit in Tehran with a declaration supporting Iran's right to the peaceful use of nuclear power.

The statement comes a day after the UN's nuclear watchdog accused Iran of blocking a probe of a military site southeast of Tehran, Parchin, suspected of being used for nuclear-related explosive tests.

Earlier, Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said emerging nations have a greater right than the West or United Nations to resolve Syria's escalating civil war.

Many NAM nations, especially the Sunni Muslim ones, however, are sympathetic or back the rebels.

On August 30, Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi told the summit that Assad's "oppressive" regime had lost its legitimacy and that the world needed to back the rebels.

Meanwhile, UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has defended his decision to attend the NAM summit in Tehran, saying he used the occasion to press Iran on human rights and greater transparency regarding its nuclear program.

 

[pack leader]

I like the way you club africa and India together!

But anyway India is re-building itself because outside forces are not looting the country while they're still at it in africa.

don't get offended what i meant is that to restore a first world power after war is easy compered to turning a 3 world country to a first world country
to restore a first world power all you need is money and time
to turn a 3 world country to a first world country you need to change the civilization thru education this is a long difficult journey
that India is mid way thru and Africa has just began

 

[Cliff@sea]

don't get offended what i meant is that to restore a first world power after war is easy compered to turning a 3 world country to a first world country
to restore a first world power all you need is money and time
to turn a 3 world country to a first world country you need to change the civilization thru education this is a long difficult journey
that India is mid way thru and Africa has just began

Its difficult to gather if its Your Reasoning or your English that is to blame for your insolent remarks or

u're just plain ignorant and doing a bad job of pretending to be smart .

in any case I'll reserve my assessment till you post more

 

[pack leader]

Its difficult to gather if its Your Reasoning or your English that is to blame for your insolent remarks or

u're just plain ignorant and doing a bad job of pretending to be smart .

in any case I'll reserve my assessment till you post more before i write you off as a moron .

i meant modernize Indian civilization ( getting rid of the cast system and tribalism )
not changing Indians into some other people

 

[Cliff@sea]

i meant modernize Indian civilization ( getting rid of the cast system and tribalism )
not changing Indians into some other people

I think the word you're Looking for is 'Society'

 

[LurkerBaba]

Signals from Tehran indicate possible midterm polls in India

I don't agree with his analysis
---

B.Raman

1. Pakistani media reports on the meeting between our Prime Minister Dr.Manmohan Singh and Pakistan's President Asif Ali Zardari in the margins of the NAM summit in Tehran on August 29,2012, are tinged with ill-concealed disappointment over the perceived reluctance of our Prime Minister to make a definitive commitment over a possible visit by him to Pakistan.

2. A few weeks ago Mr Zardari was reported to have written to Dr.Manmohan Singh inviting him to visit the Sikh holy shrines in and around Lahore coming November.

3. According to reliable Pakistani sources, no formal reply to the invitation has so far gone to Islamabad from New Delhi. Pakistani leaders were hoping that some positive indications of a likely acceptance of the invitation might be forthcoming during the meeting between the two leaders in Tehran.

4. The indications from New Delhi before our Prime Minister's departure for Tehran that India would not be taking up with Pakistan the allegations of a possible Pakistani State role in the dissemination through the cyber space of exaggerated and false accounts of the recent anti-Muslim violence in Myanmar and India with the help of morphed images and creation of feelings of nervousness and panic among the people from India's North-East living in South India and Pune added to the Pakistani hopes of a positive reply from our Prime Minister.

5. Before the Prime Minister's departure for Tehran, sections of the Indian media had carried what appeared to be authoritative though unattributed reports that Dr.Manmohan Singh would not raise this issue with Mr.Zardari for want of evidence regarding any role of the Pakistani State in the dissemination.

6. This lowered the somewhat high temperature created following briefings that had earlier come from officials of the Ministry of Home Affairs of the Government of India insinuating a possible role of the Pakistani State agencies.

7.According to Pakistani journalists who had accompanied Mr.Zardari to Tehran, Dr.Manmohan Singh confined himself to reiterating the importance of early and satisfactory prosecution of the master conspirators of the 26/11 terrorist strikes in Mumbai now facing trial before a special anti-terrorism tribunal in Rawalpindi. He was reported to have stated that effective action by Pakistan to take the trial to its logical conclusion would be an important confidence-building measure.

8. While Pakistani sources describe the atmosphere during the discussions as good, there is a disappointment over the continuing reluctance of the Prime Minister to visit Pakistan. It is stated that while keeping open the possibility of a visit at an appropriate time, Dr. Manmohan Singh was disinclined to give definitive indications of dates.

9.According to reliable Pakistani sources, Dr.Manmohan Singh was a little more cautious than he was during the visit of Mr.Zardari to Delhi in April last on the question of a possible visit by him to Pakistan.

10. Despite the implication of Pakistani state agencies by Abu Jundal, the Indian terrorist belonging to the Lashkar-e-Toiba, who had played a role in the orchestration from Karachi of the 26/11 terrorist strikes, there has been no negative factors of a serious nature in the bilateral relations since Mr.Zardari's visit.

11. If reports from my Pakistani sources of an extra-cautious Dr.Manmohan Singh on the question of a visit to Pakistan are correct, it is my assessment that this could not be due to any fresh negative factors in the bilateral relations. This could be more due to the fact that the Congress Party is toying with the idea of mid-term polls either this year-end or in the beginning of next year.

12. In the calculations of the Congress Party, simultaneous polls to the Lok Sabha and the Gujarat Assembly would keep Shri Narendra Modi, the Chief Minister of Gujarat, bottled up in Gujarat and come in the way of his playing an active role in the campaign in the rest of India. Early mid-term polls would also prevent Anna Hazare and his followers from politically organising themselves.

13. If the Congress decides in favour of mid-term polls, any new initiative in Indo-Pakistan relations such as a visit to Pakistan by the Prime Minister could prove unwise and counter-productive.

14. Hence, the Prime Minister's reported extra caution during his talks with Mr.Zardari in Tehran