11 Dead in Shooting at French Satirical Weekly's Office in Paris

Discussion in 'Europe and Russia' started by dastan, Jan 7, 2015.

  1. katsung47

    katsung47 Regular Member

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    A false flag?

     
  2. katsung47

    katsung47 Regular Member

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  3. sorcerer

    sorcerer Senior Member Veteran Member Senior Member

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    To counter terror, Europe's police reconsider their arms
    ARIS: One was a young policewoman, unarmed on the outskirts of Paris and felled by an assault rifle. Her partner, also without weapons, could do nothing to stop the gunman. Another was a first responder with a side arm, rushing to the Charlie Hebdo offices where a pair of masked men with high-powered weapons had opened fire on an editorial meeting. Among their primary targets: the armed police bodyguard inside the room.

    With the deaths of the three French officers during three days of terror in the Paris region and the suggestion of a plot in Belgium to kill police, European law enforcement agencies are rethinking how — and how many — police should be armed.

    Scotland Yard said on Sunday it was increasing the deployment of officers allowed to carry firearms in Britain, where many cling to the image of the unarmed ``bobby.'' In Belgium, where officials say a terror network was plotting to attack police, officers are again permitted to take their service weapons home.


    On Monday, French law enforcement officials demanding heavier weapons, protective gear and a bolstered intelligence apparatus met with top officials from the Interior Ministry. An official with the ministry, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss ongoing talks, said automatic weapons and heavier bulletproof vests were on the table.

    Among the most horrific images from the Paris attacks was the death of police officer Ahmed Merabet, who can be seen on eyewitness video lying wounded on the pavement as a gunman approaches and fires a final bullet into his head. Merabet, who is seen alone on the street, had a service gun and a bullet proof vest, said Michel Thooris, of the France Police labor union.

    ``But he did not come with the backup he needed, and the psychology to face a paramilitary assault,'' Thooris said. ``We were not prepared in terms of equipment or mind-set for this kind of operation.''

    One of the attackers, Amedy Coulibaly, said in a posthumous video that his plan all along was to attack police.

    ``We don't want necessarily the arms that American police have. We need weapons that can respond,'' said Philippe Capon of French police union UNSA.

    Among those weapons, he added, are modernized criminal databases, because the current databases are out of date, and firewalled between different law enforcement branches. ``The databases are not interactive. They are not accessible to all. They are not up to date,'' he said.


    Unlike their British counterparts, French national police are armed although their municipal counterparts tend to be weaponless. But Thooris said they are not permitted to have their service weapons while off duty, raising the possibility that they could be targeted when vulnerable or unable to help if they stumble across crime afterhours.

    Because of increasing unease and last week's anti-terror raids, police in Belgium are again allowed to carry weapons home rather than put their handguns and munition in specialized lockers.

    ``The conditions we have now are clearly exceptional,'' said Fons Bastiaenssens, a police spokesman in Antwerp, where there are many potential targets, especially in the Jewish quarter.

    In addition, firearms suddenly became far more visible, with some police carrying heavier weaponry as they guard sensitive buildings and police offices, and paratroopers in the streets of the major cities.

    In Britain, the overall threat level is ``severe'' — meaning intelligence and police officials have evidence that a terrorist attack is highly likely. The threat to police officers themselves is judged to be very high after the Paris attacks as well as the recent disruption of a reported Islamist extremist plot to attack individual police officers in west London.


    In response, the Metropolitan Police said Sunday it is bolstering the deployment of specialist firearms officers who are authorized to carry weapons. The force, also known as Scotland Yard, declined to provide details, and senior police officials say there is no need for a wholesale policy shift that would arm all police.

    But Mark Rowley, chief of the counter-terror operation, said the ``overall security posture'' of the police is being reviewed in light of the Paris attacks.

    In Norway, where far-right fanatic Anders Behring Breivik killed 69 people in a shooting spree at a political youth camp and eight others by bombing a government office, police are increasingly agitating for weapons.

    ``We have seen from the declarations of Coulibaly and also from what happened in Belgium that police can be primary targets for terrorist groups,'' said Nicolas Comte, of the SGP police union in France. ``We have to give the means to police services, and notably intelligence, to fight this new form of terrorism.''

    To counter terror, Europe's police reconsider their arms - The Times of India
     
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  4. sorcerer

    sorcerer Senior Member Veteran Member Senior Member

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    Anti-Muslim incidents soar in France in wake of Paris attacks


    PARIS: The number of anti-Muslim incidents in France has soared since the Islamist attacks in Paris two weeks ago, an organisation that tracks Islamophobia said on Monday (Jan 19).

    The National Observatory Against Islamophobia said 116 anti-Muslim incidents had been reported to authorities since the Jan 7-9 shooting spree by three French militants that killed 17.

    The two-week tally was more than double the number of incidents recorded for the full month of January 2014, the observatory said, reporting 28 attacks on places of worship and 88 threats.

    The observatory’s president, Abdallah Zekri condemned the “acts of hatred towards French people of the Muslim faith, the immense majority of whom respect the values of the Republic and secularism.”

    “This situation is unacceptable and we’re asking the authorities to go beyond the reassuring speeches and act to put an end to this scourge,” he said.

    Islam is France’s second-biggest religion with an estimated 3.5-5 million followers. Several mosques have been attacked since the Paris killings, which began with a massacre at Charlie Hebdo satirical weekly and ended with a bloody hostage taking in a Jewish supermarket.

    In several towns shots have been fired at mosques and racist slogans daubed on their walls. In Corsica, a pig’s head was hung on the door of a prayer hall.

    President Francois Hollande and his government have repeatedly warned against tarring all Muslims with the extremist brush. In a speech last week Hollande reiterated that “Muslims are the main victims of terrorism.”

    A portion of the 10,000 troops mobilised last week to boost security have been assigned to protecting mosques. Some prominent political figures have, however, defied calls for unity, with remarks seen as fanning anti-Muslim sentiment.

    A senior member of the far-right National Front (FN) representing the party in the European Parliament, Aymeric Chauprade, declared in a video last week that France was “at war with some Muslims”. “We’re told a majority of Muslims are peaceful. But a majority of Germans were also (peaceful) before 1933 and national socialism,” he said.

    FN leader Marine Le Pen, who has joined mainstream political parties in warning against confusing Islam and fundamentalism, distanced herself from Chauprade’s remarks. – AFP
    Print Friendly

    Read more: Anti-Muslim incidents soar in France in wake of Paris attacks – BorneoPost Online | Borneo , Malaysia, Sarawak Daily News | Largest English Daily In Borneo
    =====

    SO much for the silence of the minorities who fail to stand up to the fanatics who mess with the majorities way of life.
    Saw this image in the same forum!! suits the purpose so reposting it here.

    [​IMG]

    Islamophobia comes out of the lack of will on the part of the silent majority in minority .
     
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  5. Razor

    Razor STABLE GENIUS Moderator

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    :hmm:

    Wouldn't the better thing to do be arming the people. That makes much more sense.
    An armed population deters such attacks.
    How come they won't do that ?

    Also @sorcerer : By chance did you check about the thing I had asked earlier ?

    That is, about the identity of the masked man.

    Once again: How did the police etc identify the alleged assassins so quickly ? Both attackers wore balaclavas and yet both were identified almost immediately ? Also what happened to the third alleged suspect who surrendered himself to police saying he was innocent and had an alibi.
    Any idea ?

    -----

    I have no idea what it means, sorry. I'm guessing it means "I'm not charlie." My frenchie vocabulary is near zero.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  6. Redhawk

    Redhawk Regular Member

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    The Moslem ban on depicting Mohammed is contrived by Moslems as one more reason to attack the West. They know that in the secular West religious figures are depicted for the purposes of satire and they have contrived this ban on depicting Mohammed knowing that Mohammed will be depicted thus providing them with another ground to attack the West. The whole this is a contrivance, an artifice.
     
  7. dastan

    dastan Regular Member

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  8. DingDong

    DingDong Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: 11 killed in Paris Shooting incident

    Even though what this guy is saying might sound like music to our ears (off course such self-governing ghettoes exist in India which even Police fears to enter), but this guy's motives behind making such statements are completely "political".

    Had a person in India dared to make such a statement whole Indian Media would run it for a month.
     
  9. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    The fascination Pakistanis have with the Arab stems from the awe that anything Arab identifies them with their Prophet who was an Arab. It sort of makes them feel that being Arab brings you closer to be a genuine Muslim.

    Further, large majority are of the 'depressed classes' of their religious root - Hinduism. That is a huge stigma that they wish to wash off from their memory and skin. Hence, to fantasies and claim Arab descent makes them feel that they are emancipated and pure in roots.

    Unfortunately for Pakistanis, they are more reviled than Indians in the Middle East.

    In fact, on the very forum you mentioned, one poster who was in Saudi Arabia as a military personnel, ridiculed some that Pakistanis and Bangladeshi were looked down upon by the Saudis and treated like dirt.
     
  10. Redhawk

    Redhawk Regular Member

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    Another example of many Pakistanis deluding themselves. They are not even comfortable and secure about their own racial origins and comfortable being in their own skin. They have to fanatasise about being descended from Arabs. That is sad, tragic. And it would be sadder still if not for the fact that some of the delusions so many Pakistanis harbour are dangerous to others in the region.
     
  11. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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    I don't know which apologists you're referring to specifically; if it's the people who don't agree with the pope on this matter then I must add myself to that group.

    So to reiterate my stance... I disagree with the pope. The central thesis of his message isn't simply about the limits of free expression, rather it's about what specifically accounts for its violation... which in his case happens to be commentary upon someone's faith. This is patently false in the French context. During the medieval ages, France (like the rest of Europe) was unhealthily obsessed with Catholicism where cruel punishment was meted out for any negative commentary on faith based matters. However France became what it is today by breaking the yoke of religious oversensitivity and making ridicule of faith an acceptable form of social dialogue.

    This is not to say that there are no limits to freedom of expression. Of course there are, yelling fire in a packed theater for instance is the iconic example that serves as the core of the debate; however this is not what the pope is referring to.
     
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  12. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    To add to it

    France treats religion as an idea worth attacking, and so it upholds individual's rights to attack it.

    ==
    Rehashing my post made earlier :

    ==

    I just want to clear a few misconceptions, maybe a pol science guy can help me understand a few things myself but here we go..

    France is a secular and a "liberal" country, same as India but we both differ in its application :

    Secularism :

    France has a strong atheism bent and religion is truly separate from the state. It is militantly secular / laicite / opposed to religion.

    Since we don't have a church that requires separation , India otoh tries to treat all religions "equally" ie non-communal / non-sectarian / neutral / impartial / humanistic approach and we call this "secularism".

    In fact the "interpretation" (it is not defeined) of desi "secularism" is based on liberal values enshrined in the constitution such as pluralism, tolerance, unity in diversity etc.
    We can do away with removal of the term "Secular" mentioned in the preamble and still be the same.

    An eg of Meta-Irony : "Internet Atheist Hindus" mock "Secularism" because it leads to "Minority Appeasement"

    =
    Liberalism : Liberalism / French Revolution is the very basis of the French state and also the inspiration behind Indian Constitution.

    Libertarianism/Liberalism means upholding individual rights at its very core. Abolition of caste system, theocracy, monarchy, free speech etc are all liberal values. (Americans like to use the term libertarian because liberal unfortunately has become an euphemism for a socialist as most liberals also ended up advocating for socialism which is anti-liberal .)

    Now Liberalism comes in 2 forms,

    Cultural
    Economic

    Cultural liberalism means giving preference to individuals -> freedom of speech, no state religion, no discrimination, fundamental rights etc
    Economic liberalism (also like in the west, our own founding fathers ie cultural liberalists became economically socialists, however, Indians still use this term correctly) means organizing economy again on individual lines -> free markets, capitalism etc.

    Congress's stated ideology lays greater emphasis on cultural liberalism albeit with a heavy dose of positive affirmative action and schizophrenic in its approach to economic liberalization.
    BJP's stated Hindutva ideology is very much against the liberal ethos of the constitution whilst promising greater economic liberalization than Congress.

    And in practicing liberalism you can't value one community over another because it is at its core about individual freedoms.

    Pasted from <http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/europe-russia/66127-11-dead-shooting-french-satirical-weeklys-office-paris-36.html#post991294>

    ===
     
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  13. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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    Now mind you there is a context to the ridicule; by that I mean the broader topic is social commentary that pertains to the French. This is why we aren't talking about a cartoon where a bunch of Frenchmen go to Saudi Arabia to hold a pi$$ing context at the Ka'aba. That would be pure insult for the sake of insulting which is not what the publishers of Charile Hebdo were doing. Their ridicule was directed at the absurdity within Islamic societies where there is a huge push to migrate to Europe in order to seek a better life but also the propensity to recreate the very restrictive social constructs that are greatly responsible for keeping their home countries in a medieval state.

    It is also very, very important to note that the French have not singled out Islam. There's a reason why the pope is nothing more than just another god man with a silly opinion. If it weren't for the checks put upon the church through public defiance in countries like France, the Vatican would still be the capital of Europe as opposed to a tourist attraction.
     
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  14. arpakola

    arpakola Senior Member Senior Member

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    Paris attack designed to shore up France’s vassal status: Roberts
    PressTV-CIA carried out Paris attack?
    [​IMG]
    Charlie Hebdo -- Paul Craig Roberts - PaulCraigRoberts.org
     
  15. Redhawk

    Redhawk Regular Member

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    Re: 11 killed in Paris Shooting incident

    He's right about Moslems trying to colonise Western countries. Western countries made a huge mistake in allowing the Moslems xxxx to enter their countries and stay there. Islam is like a plague xxxx xxxx xxxx.
     
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  16. Neo

    Neo Senior Member Senior Member

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    Ex-MI6 Boss Warns West Not To Insult Islam


    Those who insult Islam should expect to be attacked, suggests ex-MI6 boss as he agrees with the Pope's Charlie Hebdo comments.

    By Alistair Bunkall, Defence Correspondent

    The former chief of MI6 has warned that anyone insulting Islam can expect to provoke a reaction and that "there will be another terrorist attack in this country."

    Sir John Sawers was delivering his first speech since leaving office. He stepped down as 'C' in November 2014 after five years at the helm of the Secret Intelligence Service.

    Sir John picked up on comments made by the Pope in reference to the provocative cartoons published in the French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo, where 12 were killed in a terror attack. Al Qaeda said the attacks were revenge for the depiction of Mohammed.

    Pope Francis told crowds in The Philippines that a friend who had cursed his mother could "expect a punch" in return.

    Sir John said: "There is a requirement for restraint from those of us in the West.

    "I rather agree with the Pope that, of course, the attacks in Paris were completely unacceptable and cannot be justified on any basis whatsoever, but I think respect for other people's religion is also an important part of this.

    "If you show disrespect for others' core values then you are going to provoke an angry response. That doesn't justify anything, but I think we just need to bear it in mind."

    Sir John praised the work of the intelligence and security agencies but reiterated the threat to the UK from terrorists: "If I was to sit here and say will the goalkeepers of the security services and the police keep every single attempt to get the ball into the net, out? No. At some point these threats will get through and there will be another terrorist attack in this country."

    Sir John said there cannot be any "no-go areas" either in the physical or virtual world and said there cannot be a trade-off between security and privacy.

    "If the technology companies allow to be developed, areas that are simply impenetrable, you're inviting problems," he warned.

    Ex-MI6 Boss Warns West Not To Insult Islam
     
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  17. sorcerer

    sorcerer Senior Member Veteran Member Senior Member

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    I dont think its a good idea to arm people when radicals can go fanatical and shoot innocent civilians. Liberalisation of arms have such an issue. Even radicals will have free access to arms and weapons.

    The point the state can consider is
    1) Tighten control over illegal arms smuggling.
    2) Increased security survilliance.
    3) Keeping watch on migrant population who travel to and from terrorism prone areas.
    4) Under taking special operations to lure the suspect and arrest him with evidence, as the US intelligence agency always does.

    Like this: Terror suspect arrested outside Ohio gun store
    Terror suspect arrested outside Ohio gun store
    When Cornell left the store and walked to the parking lot of the business, he was arrested by the FBI Cincinnati Joint Terrorism Task Force.

    Cornell, 20, of Green Township, is accused of using cyberspace to plot to assassinate congressional employees and attack the U.S. Capitol for his personal jihad. He was charged with attempted killing of U.S. government officers and possession of firearms in furtherance of an attempted crime of violence.


    Every article says : They have identified the attackers, but the means used for that is classified. IMO, the state agency must have had prior intelligence but must have lacked "actionable intelligence" to avert the incident.
    There is also a news article that US had intel on this incident. May be they must have shared the data with French Authorities.


     
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  18. sorcerer

    sorcerer Senior Member Veteran Member Senior Member

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    French police arrest five Chechens suspected of preparing attack

    PARIS Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:10pm EST
    (Reuters) - Police arrested five Chechens in southern France on suspicion of preparing an attack, a police source said on Tuesday.

    The source said four had been arrested in Montpellier or nearby, and a fifth in Beziers. Midi Libre newspaper reported that a cache of explosives was found during police searches.

    The case has not been passed onto the anti-terrorist section of the Paris prosecutor's office, a judicial source said. TV station LCI said organized crime and score settling between Chechen gangs was at the source of the suspects' plan.

    Russia's Foreign Ministry said its diplomats had confirmed to French authorities that five people detained by police were Russian citizens.

    France remains on security alert after gunmen stormed the Paris offices of the Charle Hebdo newspaper on Jan. 7 and killed 12 people, in what they said was revenge for cartoons it had published mocking Islam. A further five people were killed during two more days of violence.

    Hundreds of thousands of people protested in Russia's Chechnya region on Monday against what its Kremlin-backed leader called "vulgar and immoral" cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad published by Charlie Hebdo.

    (Reporting by Nicolas Bertin, Additional reporting by Thomas Grove in Moscow, Writing by Andrew Callus and James Regan, Editing by Angus MacSwan)

    French police arrest five Chechens suspected of preparing attack | Reuters
     
  19. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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    Re: 11 killed in Paris Shooting incident

    Jindal was talking out of his ass to appease his mentally challenged voter base. Fantasies about Islamist no go zones spreading from Europe to the United States excites Fox News conservatives as they reach for their guns with one hand while feverishly touching themselves with the other. Alas Jindal's hyperbolic statements do not hold up when analyzed objectively because they're nothing more than exaggerated tales.

    This of course does not change the fact that there are major problems among Muslim communities (immigrant or otherwise) in Europe, particularly when it comes to assimilation.
     
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  20. sydsnyper

    sydsnyper Senior Member Senior Member

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    If the 'core values' are idiosyncratic and senile, expect an opinion that you would feel is insulting.

    Tell me this, while you have been trying to impress the 'need for respecting islam', how many islamic teachings, preachers practice this with other religions. Do not the paki (and other muslim majority states) forums, talk shows, articles and cartoons criticize the jews, hindus and christians.... even with your evangelists, more than half of their repertoire is the ridicule of other religions. When you do that with impunity, expect a response.

    Nevertheless, the golden rule is - if you shove your religion in my face, especially when it is fraught with racism, insult and crimes against humanity, dont cry when people tear it apart for what it is.

     
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