11 Dead in Shooting at French Satirical Weekly's Office in Paris

Redhawk

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Arabs are the village idiots of the Islamic world.

Iranians are the most educated and scholarly of the Islamic world. In fact enlightened Islam has much been gifted by the Persian language, thought and culture.
Check it here
Iran Heritage

The wannabe Arabs like the Pakistanis are neither here not there.

Indian Muslims have been influenced by the secular character of the Indian Union.

And so have the Malay Muslims and the Singaporean Malays.

Therefore there are very balanced Muslims who are not Arabs or wannbe Arabs.
Yes, I would agree with that, Ray.

Personally, I have never understood the Pakistanis' fascination for Arabs and Arabian influences and matters, the so-called "Al-Bakistan phenomenon."
Mohammed Ali Jinnah would most certainly never have approved of it.

And I find the Indian Subcontinent's many ethnic groups, large and small, a much, much more interesting gathering of peoples and spectrum of cultures than those of the Arabic-speaking Middle East or North Africa. I just wish peace would come to the entire Subcontinent because it is such an interesting, indeed, fascinating place and one of the world's great cradles of human civilisation.
 
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Redhawk

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This is what Salman Rushdie, as an Indian Muslim, had to say about comparing India and Pakistan and the problems with which Pakistan has to contend, and then speaking about American culture, in an interview where he was a panellist on a televised forum in the U.S. on 7 Nov. 2003, so over 11 years ago now, of course. I found what he had to say very interesting. Salman Rushdie is one of the greatest living writers in the English language of the post-war era, in my opinion.


And here in this video Salman Rushdie, one of India's greatest living sons, is interviewed by Barkha Dutt of NDTV after he was prevented by Muslim extremists from attending the Jaipur Literature Festival, of which Rushdie was co-director, in January 2012. Even a live video-link from the U.K. to the Festival was blocked the Festival's organisers after demonstrations and threats of violence from extremists. Absolute madness!

 
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ezsasa

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Arabs are the village idiots of the Islamic world.

Iranians are the most educated and scholarly of the Islamic world. In fact enlightened Islam has much been gifted by the Persian language, thought and culture.

The wannabe Arabs like the Pakistanis are neither here not there.

Indian Muslims have been influenced by the secular character of the Indian Union.

And so have the Malay Muslims and the Singaporean Malays.

Therefore there are very balanced Muslims who are not Arabs or wannbe Arabs.

In other words if we draw a circle which represents the geography with Islamic influence with Mecca as centre. Ideology becomes more extreme towards the centre (I.e Saudi )and more liberal as we move away from the centre (ex: Asian islamics).

Does this theory make any sense? :)
 

rock127

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It's funny how people in general and euros in particular are going crazy, jumping over the railings with "je suis charlie" and all, for 17 dead frenchies, while at the exact same time in Donbass, ethnic Russians are being shelled and the region ethnically cleansed by NATO backed terrorists. Thousands of civilians dead including large numbers of children but nobody gives a silent fart. :lol:

There was even a bomb blast in Bangalore, not much noise there either.

Shows you the power of Western media.
Check my Title :lol:
 

Srinivas_K

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The video shows the evidence of Radical nature of Islam against free press from the beginning. Even prophet mohammed approved the killings some times.

If any one kills a person who insulted islam or muhammed. He or she will not be punished for their sins, according to muhammed.
 
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tramp

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Interesting piece.

How images of the prophet Muhammad became 'forbidden'

Dozens of Pakistani lawmakers rumbled through the streets of Islamabad on Thursday with one voice: Death to the blasphemers. Death to the blasphemers. Death to the blasphemers.

The "blasphemers" in this case were the Charlie Hebdo cartoonists who recently published a fresh depiction of the prophet Muhammad on their weekly newspaper's cover in remembrance of the journalists who were killed in last week's terrorist attack. "Making blasphemy cartoon of Prophet is the worst act of terrorism," declared a photographed banner at the rally. "THE SKETCH MAKERS MUST BE HANGED IMMEDIATELY."

It's so commonly reported that Islam forbids Muhammad's portraiture that it seems almost a waste of space to repeat it. After all, isn't that why some Muslims were so outraged in 2006 when the Danish daily Jyllands-Posten depicted Muhammad in an unflattering light? Isn't that why the Metropolitan Museum of Art pulled three paintings of the prophet? Isn't that why the TV show South Park had to censor all mentions of Muhammad in a 2010 episode? "Islam forbids images of Muhammad," CNN boomed in a headline last week.

But the reality is substantially more complicated. The Koran, in fact, does not directly forbid the portrayal of Muhammad. And the second most important Islamic text, the Hadith, "presents us with an ambiguous picture at best," wrote Christine Gruber of the University of Michigan. "At turns we read of artists who dared to breathe life into their figures and, at others, of pillows ornamented with figural imagery." The most explicit fatwa banning the portrayal of Muhammad, she notes, isn't tucked into some ancient text. It arrived in 2001. And its creator was the Taliban. The ban is a very modern construct.

Still, no one disputes its pervasiveness, nor its emotive underpinnings. To reiterate, Pakistani men on Thursday proclaimed that the worst act of terrorism was drawing Muhammad — a crime punishable by violent death. What explains this sentiment? Where did it come from?

To answer that question, one must travel back hundreds of years when the depiction of Muhammad in artwork was not all that uncommon. In non-Arab regions, researchers have unearthed a panoply of remarkable and detailed portraits of Muhammad that date before the 16th century. In one, a Persian image of Muhammad, clad in a white turban and bearded, preaches his final sermon. In another, a young Muhammad, hair parted into two ponytails, stands amid a throng of monks. One more shows Muhammad settling a dispute by placing a black stone into the center of a rug.


But such drawings were far rarer in the Arabian Peninsula, "where verbal reality eclipsed the reality of the visual image," wrote Ali Aijdan in the Proceedings of the 11th International Congress of Turkish Art. He argued that there was a wide divide between Arab Muslim cultures and non-Arab Muslim cultures on how to handle artwork, which eventually led to the contemporary disappearance of Muhammad.

"An important element in Islamic aesthetics is the role played by Arabic language," Ali wrote. "Among Arabic-speaking people, the need for illustrative pictorial art to accompany historical, religious, or literary works was rarely felt. For example, although the description of the Prophet is quite explicit in the Arabic annals, there is not a single picture painted by an Arab that portrays him. On the other hand, among the Turks, the Persians and the Indians, whose artistic heritage had been rich in pictorial images and whose language is other than Arabic, the Prophet was actually portrayed."

Along the way, something changed in non-Arab drawings of Muhammad. He still appeared in paintings. But his features weren't shown. Rather, they were covered with white linen or cloth, his form enshrouded by golden flame. (This depiction has carried over into modernity; in 2008, the Iranian government commissioned a five-story mural showing Tehran in such fashion.) Those pictures, however, soon disappeared as well. "As far as we know, the Prophet was never depicted with an open face since the 16th century," Ali wrote.

Gruber, in an interview with the BBC, said the modern objection to images of Muhammad may have been a reaction to colonization by Christians, with their images of Jesus and the crucifix. It was during the colonial era that pictures showing Muhammad began to vanish, replaced by an aversion to his image.

"To a large extent, this divide is rooted in real-world grievances rather than theology: a sensitivity caused by many Muslims' perceptions that they are under attack by the West," wrote the Wall Street Journal's Yaroslav Trofimov. "And that their societies are in seminal economic and cultural decline that started with European colonization centuries ago."


But even in modern times, Muhammad's image continued to appear in Muslim nations, including Iran, where until recently, the Guardian reported, carpets showing his image as well as postcards were openly sold.

Of course, many who have no religious objection to images of Muhammad per se deeply resent cartoonish images that ridicule the prophet or make fun of Islam. As Pope Francis told reporters this week in commenting on the Charlie Hebdo portrayals, "you cannot make fun of the faith of others."
 

katsung47

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A false flag?

Police commissioner investigating Charlie Hebdo attack commits suicide while writing report

January 11, 2015
Police Commissioner likely 'taken out' upon discovery of evidence not fitting to establishment narrative, some speculate

By Shepard Ambellas

PARIS (INTELLIHUB) — Shockingly Police Commissioner Helric Fredou, 45, reportedly killed himself with his own gun while preparing a report just after meeting with a family member of a victim who was shot during the recent attack which took place at the offices of the satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo.

Although reports claim that Helric Fredou suffered from "depression" and "burn out" some, like myself, remain skeptical that Fredou was 'suicided', murdered, by a third-party in an attempt to quell information he gained after speaking with key individuals during his investigation.


According to reports, the fatal blast took place in Fredou's office during the early hours of the morning for "unknown" reasons.

According to reports, everyone surrounding the Fredou was "shocked".

https://www.intellihub.com/police-c...-hebdo-attack-commits-suicide-writing-report/
 

sorcerer

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To counter terror, Europe's police reconsider their arms
ARIS: One was a young policewoman, unarmed on the outskirts of Paris and felled by an assault rifle. Her partner, also without weapons, could do nothing to stop the gunman. Another was a first responder with a side arm, rushing to the Charlie Hebdo offices where a pair of masked men with high-powered weapons had opened fire on an editorial meeting. Among their primary targets: the armed police bodyguard inside the room.

With the deaths of the three French officers during three days of terror in the Paris region and the suggestion of a plot in Belgium to kill police, European law enforcement agencies are rethinking how — and how many — police should be armed.

Scotland Yard said on Sunday it was increasing the deployment of officers allowed to carry firearms in Britain, where many cling to the image of the unarmed ``bobby.'' In Belgium, where officials say a terror network was plotting to attack police, officers are again permitted to take their service weapons home.


On Monday, French law enforcement officials demanding heavier weapons, protective gear and a bolstered intelligence apparatus met with top officials from the Interior Ministry. An official with the ministry, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss ongoing talks, said automatic weapons and heavier bulletproof vests were on the table.

Among the most horrific images from the Paris attacks was the death of police officer Ahmed Merabet, who can be seen on eyewitness video lying wounded on the pavement as a gunman approaches and fires a final bullet into his head. Merabet, who is seen alone on the street, had a service gun and a bullet proof vest, said Michel Thooris, of the France Police labor union.

``But he did not come with the backup he needed, and the psychology to face a paramilitary assault,'' Thooris said. ``We were not prepared in terms of equipment or mind-set for this kind of operation.''

One of the attackers, Amedy Coulibaly, said in a posthumous video that his plan all along was to attack police.

``We don't want necessarily the arms that American police have. We need weapons that can respond,'' said Philippe Capon of French police union UNSA.

Among those weapons, he added, are modernized criminal databases, because the current databases are out of date, and firewalled between different law enforcement branches. ``The databases are not interactive. They are not accessible to all. They are not up to date,'' he said.


Unlike their British counterparts, French national police are armed although their municipal counterparts tend to be weaponless. But Thooris said they are not permitted to have their service weapons while off duty, raising the possibility that they could be targeted when vulnerable or unable to help if they stumble across crime afterhours.

Because of increasing unease and last week's anti-terror raids, police in Belgium are again allowed to carry weapons home rather than put their handguns and munition in specialized lockers.

``The conditions we have now are clearly exceptional,'' said Fons Bastiaenssens, a police spokesman in Antwerp, where there are many potential targets, especially in the Jewish quarter.

In addition, firearms suddenly became far more visible, with some police carrying heavier weaponry as they guard sensitive buildings and police offices, and paratroopers in the streets of the major cities.

In Britain, the overall threat level is ``severe'' — meaning intelligence and police officials have evidence that a terrorist attack is highly likely. The threat to police officers themselves is judged to be very high after the Paris attacks as well as the recent disruption of a reported Islamist extremist plot to attack individual police officers in west London.


In response, the Metropolitan Police said Sunday it is bolstering the deployment of specialist firearms officers who are authorized to carry weapons. The force, also known as Scotland Yard, declined to provide details, and senior police officials say there is no need for a wholesale policy shift that would arm all police.

But Mark Rowley, chief of the counter-terror operation, said the ``overall security posture'' of the police is being reviewed in light of the Paris attacks.

In Norway, where far-right fanatic Anders Behring Breivik killed 69 people in a shooting spree at a political youth camp and eight others by bombing a government office, police are increasingly agitating for weapons.

``We have seen from the declarations of Coulibaly and also from what happened in Belgium that police can be primary targets for terrorist groups,'' said Nicolas Comte, of the SGP police union in France. ``We have to give the means to police services, and notably intelligence, to fight this new form of terrorism.''

To counter terror, Europe's police reconsider their arms - The Times of India
 

sorcerer

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Anti-Muslim incidents soar in France in wake of Paris attacks


PARIS: The number of anti-Muslim incidents in France has soared since the Islamist attacks in Paris two weeks ago, an organisation that tracks Islamophobia said on Monday (Jan 19).

The National Observatory Against Islamophobia said 116 anti-Muslim incidents had been reported to authorities since the Jan 7-9 shooting spree by three French militants that killed 17.

The two-week tally was more than double the number of incidents recorded for the full month of January 2014, the observatory said, reporting 28 attacks on places of worship and 88 threats.

The observatory's president, Abdallah Zekri condemned the "acts of hatred towards French people of the Muslim faith, the immense majority of whom respect the values of the Republic and secularism."

"This situation is unacceptable and we're asking the authorities to go beyond the reassuring speeches and act to put an end to this scourge," he said.

Islam is France's second-biggest religion with an estimated 3.5-5 million followers. Several mosques have been attacked since the Paris killings, which began with a massacre at Charlie Hebdo satirical weekly and ended with a bloody hostage taking in a Jewish supermarket.

In several towns shots have been fired at mosques and racist slogans daubed on their walls. In Corsica, a pig's head was hung on the door of a prayer hall.

President Francois Hollande and his government have repeatedly warned against tarring all Muslims with the extremist brush. In a speech last week Hollande reiterated that "Muslims are the main victims of terrorism."

A portion of the 10,000 troops mobilised last week to boost security have been assigned to protecting mosques. Some prominent political figures have, however, defied calls for unity, with remarks seen as fanning anti-Muslim sentiment.

A senior member of the far-right National Front (FN) representing the party in the European Parliament, Aymeric Chauprade, declared in a video last week that France was "at war with some Muslims". "We're told a majority of Muslims are peaceful. But a majority of Germans were also (peaceful) before 1933 and national socialism," he said.

FN leader Marine Le Pen, who has joined mainstream political parties in warning against confusing Islam and fundamentalism, distanced herself from Chauprade's remarks. – AFP
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Read more: Anti-Muslim incidents soar in France in wake of Paris attacks – BorneoPost Online | Borneo , Malaysia, Sarawak Daily News | Largest English Daily In Borneo
=====

SO much for the silence of the minorities who fail to stand up to the fanatics who mess with the majorities way of life.
Saw this image in the same forum!! suits the purpose so reposting it here.


Islamophobia comes out of the lack of will on the part of the silent majority in minority .
 

Razor

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To counter terror, Europe's police reconsider their arms
ARIS: One was a young policewoman, unarmed on the outskirts of Paris and felled by an assault rifle. Her partner, also without weapons, could do nothing to stop the gunman. Another was a first responder with a side arm, rushing to the Charlie Hebdo offices where a pair of masked men with high-powered weapons had opened fire on an editorial meeting. Among their primary targets: the armed police bodyguard inside the room.

With the deaths of the three French officers during three days of terror in the Paris region and the suggestion of a plot in Belgium to kill police, European law enforcement agencies are rethinking how — and how many — police should be armed.

Scotland Yard said on Sunday it was increasing the deployment of officers allowed to carry firearms in Britain, where many cling to the image of the unarmed ``bobby.'' In Belgium, where officials say a terror network was plotting to attack police, officers are again permitted to take their service weapons home.


On Monday, French law enforcement officials demanding heavier weapons, protective gear and a bolstered intelligence apparatus met with top officials from the Interior Ministry. An official with the ministry, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss ongoing talks, said automatic weapons and heavier bulletproof vests were on the table.

Among the most horrific images from the Paris attacks was the death of police officer Ahmed Merabet, who can be seen on eyewitness video lying wounded on the pavement as a gunman approaches and fires a final bullet into his head. Merabet, who is seen alone on the street, had a service gun and a bullet proof vest, said Michel Thooris, of the France Police labor union.

``But he did not come with the backup he needed, and the psychology to face a paramilitary assault,'' Thooris said. ``We were not prepared in terms of equipment or mind-set for this kind of operation.''

One of the attackers, Amedy Coulibaly, said in a posthumous video that his plan all along was to attack police.

``We don't want necessarily the arms that American police have. We need weapons that can respond,'' said Philippe Capon of French police union UNSA.

Among those weapons, he added, are modernized criminal databases, because the current databases are out of date, and firewalled between different law enforcement branches. ``The databases are not interactive. They are not accessible to all. They are not up to date,'' he said.


Unlike their British counterparts, French national police are armed although their municipal counterparts tend to be weaponless. But Thooris said they are not permitted to have their service weapons while off duty, raising the possibility that they could be targeted when vulnerable or unable to help if they stumble across crime afterhours.

Because of increasing unease and last week's anti-terror raids, police in Belgium are again allowed to carry weapons home rather than put their handguns and munition in specialized lockers.

``The conditions we have now are clearly exceptional,'' said Fons Bastiaenssens, a police spokesman in Antwerp, where there are many potential targets, especially in the Jewish quarter.

In addition, firearms suddenly became far more visible, with some police carrying heavier weaponry as they guard sensitive buildings and police offices, and paratroopers in the streets of the major cities.

In Britain, the overall threat level is ``severe'' — meaning intelligence and police officials have evidence that a terrorist attack is highly likely. The threat to police officers themselves is judged to be very high after the Paris attacks as well as the recent disruption of a reported Islamist extremist plot to attack individual police officers in west London.


In response, the Metropolitan Police said Sunday it is bolstering the deployment of specialist firearms officers who are authorized to carry weapons. The force, also known as Scotland Yard, declined to provide details, and senior police officials say there is no need for a wholesale policy shift that would arm all police.

But Mark Rowley, chief of the counter-terror operation, said the ``overall security posture'' of the police is being reviewed in light of the Paris attacks.

In Norway, where far-right fanatic Anders Behring Breivik killed 69 people in a shooting spree at a political youth camp and eight others by bombing a government office, police are increasingly agitating for weapons.

``We have seen from the declarations of Coulibaly and also from what happened in Belgium that police can be primary targets for terrorist groups,'' said Nicolas Comte, of the SGP police union in France. ``We have to give the means to police services, and notably intelligence, to fight this new form of terrorism.''

To counter terror, Europe's police reconsider their arms - The Times of India
On Monday, French law enforcement officials demanding heavier weapons, protective gear and a bolstered intelligence apparatus met with top officials from the Interior Ministry. An official with the ministry, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss ongoing talks, said automatic weapons and heavier bulletproof vests were on the table.
:hmm:

Wouldn't the better thing to do be arming the people. That makes much more sense.
An armed population deters such attacks.
How come they won't do that ?

Also @sorcerer : By chance did you check about the thing I had asked earlier ?

That is, about the identity of the masked man.

Once again: How did the police etc identify the alleged assassins so quickly ? Both attackers wore balaclavas and yet both were identified almost immediately ? Also what happened to the third alleged suspect who surrendered himself to police saying he was innocent and had an alibi.
Any idea ?

-----

Check my Title :lol:
I have no idea what it means, sorry. I'm guessing it means "I'm not charlie." My frenchie vocabulary is near zero.
 
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Redhawk

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But the reality is substantially more complicated. The Koran, in fact, does not directly forbid the portrayal of Muhammad. And the second most important Islamic text, the Hadith, "presents us with an ambiguous picture at best," wrote Christine Gruber of the University of Michigan. "At turns we read of artists who dared to breathe life into their figures and, at others, of pillows ornamented with figural imagery." The most explicit fatwa banning the portrayal of Muhammad, she notes, isn't tucked into some ancient text. It arrived in 2001. And its creator was the Taliban. The ban is a very modern construct.
The Moslem ban on depicting Mohammed is contrived by Moslems as one more reason to attack the West. They know that in the secular West religious figures are depicted for the purposes of satire and they have contrived this ban on depicting Mohammed knowing that Mohammed will be depicted thus providing them with another ground to attack the West. The whole this is a contrivance, an artifice.
 

DingDong

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Re: 11 killed in Paris Shooting incident

Jindal: Muslim establish 'no-go zones' outside civic control


When somebody dares to speak the truth, people get outrages :D
Even though what this guy is saying might sound like music to our ears (off course such self-governing ghettoes exist in India which even Police fears to enter), but this guy's motives behind making such statements are completely "political".

Had a person in India dared to make such a statement whole Indian Media would run it for a month.
 

Ray

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Yes, I would agree with that, Ray.

Personally, I have never understood the Pakistanis' fascination for Arabs and Arabian influences and matters, the so-called "Al-Bakistan phenomenon."
Mohammed Ali Jinnah would most certainly never have approved of it.

And I find the Indian Subcontinent's many ethnic groups, large and small, a much, much more interesting gathering of peoples and spectrum of cultures than those of the Arab-speaking Middle East or North Africa. I just wish peace would come to the entire Subcontinent because it is such an interesting, indeed, fascinating place and one of the world's great cradles of human civilisation.
The fascination Pakistanis have with the Arab stems from the awe that anything Arab identifies them with their Prophet who was an Arab. It sort of makes them feel that being Arab brings you closer to be a genuine Muslim.

Further, large majority are of the 'depressed classes' of their religious root - Hinduism. That is a huge stigma that they wish to wash off from their memory and skin. Hence, to fantasies and claim Arab descent makes them feel that they are emancipated and pure in roots.

Unfortunately for Pakistanis, they are more reviled than Indians in the Middle East.

In fact, on the very forum you mentioned, one poster who was in Saudi Arabia as a military personnel, ridiculed some that Pakistanis and Bangladeshi were looked down upon by the Saudis and treated like dirt.
 

Redhawk

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The fascination Pakistanis have with the Arab stems from the awe that anything Arab identifies them with their Prophet who was an Arab. It sort of makes them feel that being Arab brings you closer to be a genuine Muslim.

Further, large majority are of the 'depressed classes' of their religious root - Hinduism. That is a huge stigma that they wish to wash off from their memory and skin. Hence, to fantasies and claim Arab descent makes them feel that they are emancipated and pure in roots.

Unfortunately for Pakistanis, they are more reviled than Indians in the Middle East.

In fact, on the very forum you mentioned, one poster who was in Saudi Arabia as a military personnel, ridiculed some that Pakistanis and Bangladeshi were looked down upon by the Saudis and treated like dirt.
Another example of many Pakistanis deluding themselves. They are not even comfortable and secure about their own racial origins and comfortable being in their own skin. They have to fanatasise about being descended from Arabs. That is sad, tragic. And it would be sadder still if not for the fact that some of the delusions so many Pakistanis harbour are dangerous to others in the region.
 

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The message he delivered is the only thing that matters to me: There are limits to free expression. The apologists will try to go analystic on what he said but there is no doubt about his plea for mutual respect and tollerance.
I don't know which apologists you're referring to specifically; if it's the people who don't agree with the pope on this matter then I must add myself to that group.

So to reiterate my stance... I disagree with the pope. The central thesis of his message isn't simply about the limits of free expression, rather it's about what specifically accounts for its violation... which in his case happens to be commentary upon someone's faith. This is patently false in the French context. During the medieval ages, France (like the rest of Europe) was unhealthily obsessed with Catholicism where cruel punishment was meted out for any negative commentary on faith based matters. However France became what it is today by breaking the yoke of religious oversensitivity and making ridicule of faith an acceptable form of social dialogue.

This is not to say that there are no limits to freedom of expression. Of course there are, yelling fire in a packed theater for instance is the iconic example that serves as the core of the debate; however this is not what the pope is referring to.
 

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I don't know which apologists you're referring to specifically; if it's the people who don't agree with the pope on this matter then I must add myself to that group.

So to reiterate my stance... I disagree with the pope. The central thesis of his message isn't simply about the limits of free expression, rather it's about what specifically accounts for its violation... which in his case happens to be commentary upon someone's faith. This is patently false in the French context. During the medieval ages, France (like the rest of Europe) was unhealthily obsessed with Catholicism where cruel punishment was meted out for any negative commentary on faith based matters. However France became what it is today by breaking the yoke of religious oversensitivity and making ridicule of faith an acceptable form of social dialogue.

This is not to say that there are no limits to freedom of expression. Of course there are, yelling fire in a packed theater for instance is the iconic example that serves as the core of the debate; however this is not what the pope is referring to.
To add to it

France treats religion as an idea worth attacking, and so it upholds individual's rights to attack it.

==
Rehashing my post made earlier :

==

I just want to clear a few misconceptions, maybe a pol science guy can help me understand a few things myself but here we go..

France is a secular and a "liberal" country, same as India but we both differ in its application :

Secularism :

France has a strong atheism bent and religion is truly separate from the state. It is militantly secular / laicite / opposed to religion.

Since we don't have a church that requires separation , India otoh tries to treat all religions "equally" ie non-communal / non-sectarian / neutral / impartial / humanistic approach and we call this "secularism".

In fact the "interpretation" (it is not defeined) of desi "secularism" is based on liberal values enshrined in the constitution such as pluralism, tolerance, unity in diversity etc.
We can do away with removal of the term "Secular" mentioned in the preamble and still be the same.

An eg of Meta-Irony : "Internet Atheist Hindus" mock "Secularism" because it leads to "Minority Appeasement"

=
Liberalism : Liberalism / French Revolution is the very basis of the French state and also the inspiration behind Indian Constitution.

Libertarianism/Liberalism means upholding individual rights at its very core. Abolition of caste system, theocracy, monarchy, free speech etc are all liberal values. (Americans like to use the term libertarian because liberal unfortunately has become an euphemism for a socialist as most liberals also ended up advocating for socialism which is anti-liberal .)

Now Liberalism comes in 2 forms,

Cultural
Economic

Cultural liberalism means giving preference to individuals -> freedom of speech, no state religion, no discrimination, fundamental rights etc
Economic liberalism (also like in the west, our own founding fathers ie cultural liberalists became economically socialists, however, Indians still use this term correctly) means organizing economy again on individual lines -> free markets, capitalism etc.

Congress's stated ideology lays greater emphasis on cultural liberalism albeit with a heavy dose of positive affirmative action and schizophrenic in its approach to economic liberalization.
BJP's stated Hindutva ideology is very much against the liberal ethos of the constitution whilst promising greater economic liberalization than Congress.

And in practicing liberalism you can't value one community over another because it is at its core about individual freedoms.

Pasted from <http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/europe-russia/66127-11-dead-shooting-french-satirical-weeklys-office-paris-36.html#post991294>

===
 

Energon

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To add to it

France treats religion as an idea worth attacking, and so it upholds individual's rights to attack it.
Now mind you there is a context to the ridicule; by that I mean the broader topic is social commentary that pertains to the French. This is why we aren't talking about a cartoon where a bunch of Frenchmen go to Saudi Arabia to hold a pi$$ing context at the Ka'aba. That would be pure insult for the sake of insulting which is not what the publishers of Charile Hebdo were doing. Their ridicule was directed at the absurdity within Islamic societies where there is a huge push to migrate to Europe in order to seek a better life but also the propensity to recreate the very restrictive social constructs that are greatly responsible for keeping their home countries in a medieval state.

It is also very, very important to note that the French have not singled out Islam. There's a reason why the pope is nothing more than just another god man with a silly opinion. If it weren't for the checks put upon the church through public defiance in countries like France, the Vatican would still be the capital of Europe as opposed to a tourist attraction.
 

arpakola

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Paris attack designed to shore up France's vassal status: Roberts
PressTV-CIA carried out Paris attack?

Charlie Hebdo -- Paul Craig Roberts - PaulCraigRoberts.org
Paul Craig Roberts
The Charlie Hebdo affair has many of the characteristics of a false flag operation. The attack on the cartoonists' office was a disciplined professional attack of the kind associated with highly trained special forces; yet the suspects who were later corralled and killed seemed bumbling and unprofessional. It is like two different sets of people.
 

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