11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 injured

Ray

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Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

Lets get back to 10 Sikh LI case or I will close the thread.

If someone wishes to discuss these non topic issues. start a thread but let's not clutter this thread.

I think much has been said and now it is time to shake hands and call it quits.
 
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TrueSpirit

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Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

@Decklander Sir: Today I saw your NDA coursemate, Col. speaking on some TV channel in a public debate, where Kejriwal was found to be the most popular choice for Delhi CM post.
 
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pkroyal

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Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

Lets get back to 10 Sikh LI case or I will close the thread.

If someone wishes to discuss these non topic issues. start a thread but let's not clutter this thread.

I think much has been said and now it is time to shake hands and call it quits.
As per some information available, the unit stood 10th in the Div Ghatak Platoon competition. The individual soldier who was a laggard during the run was pulled up by an officer after the event for letting down the team. One thing led to the other, heated exchanges and some fisticuffs. All is well now . No value judgments please. These are the facts.
 

Ray

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Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

How has the Boxing match turned into Ghatak competition?

I will leave it at just saying it was a command failure and an attempt to cover up an incident that soured if what is doing the rounds in Army circles is correct.
 

W.G.Ewald

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Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

As per some information available, the unit stood 10th in the Div Ghatak Platoon competition. The individual soldier who was a laggard during the run was pulled up by an officer after the event for letting down the team. One thing led to the other, heated exchanges and some fisticuffs. All is well now . No value judgments please. These are the facts.
US Army regulations (UCMJ) provide for punishment of enlisted men who disobey officers, also for officers who strike an enlisted man. No doubt IA has similar regs.
 

pkroyal

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Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

US Army regulations (UCMJ) provide for punishment of enlisted men who disobey officers, also for officers who strike an enlisted man. No doubt IA has similar regs.
Yes, Army Act ( 1950) Section - 40 , Striking or threatening superior officer. & Section- 47, ILL treating a subordinate.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

Sikh, Bengali, Dogra all are same ..

Its just civilians fights for this and that, We watch with amusement .. :D
 

kseeker

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Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

Govt expresses concern over jawan-officer clashes in Army

New Delhi: The government has conveyed its concern to the top brass in the Army over incidents of fracas between jawans and officers.

It has comes in the backdrop of over five such incidents being reported in the Army in the last three years.

The concern was expressed at the recently held Combined Commanders' Conference here which was addressed by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Defence Minister A K Antony.

The top defence brass was told that the educational and the social background of the jawans have changed in the recent years and there was a need for the officers to handle them in proper manner, sources said.

A need for sensitising the officers regarding their dealings with the jawans was also felt, they said.

There have been several such incidents since 2010 in which jawans and officers have clashed over one reason or the other.

Last month, an altercation during a boxing match led to a clash between officers and soldiers of an Army unit in Meerut in Uttar Pradesh, leaving three personnel including the second-in-command of the 10 Sikh Light Infantry unit injured.

Army chief Gen Bikram Singh, who is the Colonel of the Regiment, while taking serious note of the incident, had ordered an expeditious court of inquiry (COI) and punishment to the guilty. The 10 Sikh LI is based in Delhi and was in Meerut's Dobhotua village for an exercise.

According to the Army chief, there will be "zero tolerance" for such acts of indiscipline.

In similar incidents, on August 8, 2012, jawans had agitated against the commanding officer and certain functionaries of the 16th cavalry unit in Samba, while on May 10-11, 2012, a case of manhandling involving officers and other ranks of the 226 artillery unit took place at the Mahe field firing range in Leh.

On April 29, 2010, an altercation had taken place between an officer and a jawan of the 45th cavalry unit in Gurdaspur.

The Army has already taken steps against its personnel in these cases and more than 200 officers and jawans faced disciplinary or administrative action last year.

After the clashes, the Army commanders were told to exercise zero tolerance in such cases and extend exemplary punishment to give "necessary preventive lessons" to the personnel.

In some of the cases, the Army has completed its probe and more than 200 personnel have been handed down punishments for their alleged roles in the clashes.
 

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Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

@Decklander Sir: Today I saw your NDA coursemate, Col. speaking on some TV channel in a public debate, where Kejriwal was found to be the most popular choice for Delhi CM post.
if you please provide me the link , i will be thankful....
 
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EXPERT

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Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

The young OFFICERS of our army have to understand that the level between an Officer and a Jawan is coming down year by year......
The Jawans which are joining have the qualities not less than Officers .....
They are now almost coming from educated background....
They arent going to follow all the stupid orders of their seniors ......Like Polishing, gardening,and all that ...
and not going to tolerate misbehaviour ....
so do something to keep them cool , and JELL with them properly to do a better job
 

Kunal Biswas

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Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

Let me clear this misconception ..

================>>

1. There is no issues between ' Soldiers ' and ' Officers ' in a Army which size + Million .
2. Our Army is huge and like a huge family, We fight and love and die together .
3. These news from Media is a way to defame Army as its been doing for some time, Either its attention seeking or paid by external / Internal sources.

=================

New bees better go through first few pages before knee jerking here ..
 

Ray

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Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

Things happen.

Things get sorted out.

I am sure whatever went wrong has been rectified.
 

Twinblade

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Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

The young OFFICERS of our army have to understand that the level between an Officer and a Jawan is coming down year by year......
The Jawans which are joining have the qualities not less than Officers .....
They are now almost coming from educated background....
They arent going to follow all the stupid orders of their seniors ......Like Polishing, gardening,and all that ...
and not going to tolerate misbehaviour ....
so do something to keep them cool , and JELL with them properly to do a better job
^^ This. A lot of PBOR joining the armed forces today are college graduates and fairly comparable to officers, while the difference in facilities made available to officers and jawans is quite significant. It might have been OK in the past, but today's jawan is far more aspirational and is much less likely to tolerate improper conduct from officers, whether perceived or actual.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

What is the requirement to join as a solider and JCO ?

What are General duties ? what is the use of it ?

Indeed it must be Significant, Its the same for all institution and other Armies as well, Question is why so ? some thing need not to be explained ..

Improper conducts are not tolerate-able within officers certainly not with Soldiers, Our action and there reflect our only and our Heads ..

================

Question these to the point before going any further ..


^^ This. A lot of PBOR joining the armed forces today are college graduates and fairly comparable to officers, while the difference in facilities made available to officers and jawans is quite significant. It might have been OK in the past, but today's jawan is far more aspirational and is much less likely to tolerate improper conduct from officers, whether perceived or actual.
 

Ray

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Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

College graduates are fine.

But the quality of those college graduates matter. Is it the same?

The quality of the degree is material or not is something that makes me wonder if that would be sifting wheat from chaff.

Further, there must be some difference or else why such college graduates don't make to be an officer, when there is such a huge shortage of officers?

I wonder why.
 

Ray

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Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

They arent going to follow all the stupid orders of their seniors ......Like Polishing, gardening,and all that ...
and not going to tolerate misbehaviour ....
One of the issue that caused a problem is that the Clerks, refused to clean weapons since they expected the jawans to do it.

It is the duty of all ranks to clean their personal weapon.

When the CO insisted that the clerks their weapon during rifle cleaning parade, the clerks got perky.

So, they don't even want to do legitimate duties either!
 

TrueSpirit1

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Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

College graduates are fine.

But the quality of those college graduates matter. Is it the same?

The quality of the degree is material or not is something that makes me wonder if that would be sifting wheat from chaff.

Further, there must be some difference or else why such college graduates don't make to be an officer, when there is such a huge shortage of officers?

I wonder why.
Not every candidate has the mettle to clear NDA written exam (where maximum screenings happen). It has become much tougher in the last 5-6 years than it was in year 2000, when I appeared for it.

And, SSB has always been the toughest nut to crack. I was rejected 4 times consecutively (IIRC, April 2000, Sep 2000, April 2001 & Sep 2001) during the Conference on last date of SSB. Even, the majority of my batchmates who ultimately made it through, managed it in their last attempt at SSB (3rd or 4th). Despite this, few unlucky ones could not figure in the final merit list due to low score in written examination (while UPSC written exam was considered a cakewalk, then).

Now, those individuals who could not make it, completed their graduation halfheartedly & joined paramilitary forces as Asst. Commandants through CPF (only 3-4 appeared for CDS, joined IMA/OTA/Naval Academy). Some of those paramilitary guys went on to become IPS officers (through a recently launched direct entry scheme for Asst. & Dty. Commandants to make up for the impending shortfall in IPS cadre). Others have also made their mark in resp. fields.

So,NDA SSB is literally an Achilles heel for aspirants. Despite the allegations that standards have come down, it does not reflect in the % of SSB-recommended candidates (SSB only recommends for further medical examination).

The whole point is: The fact that several guys who cannot clear SSB have to settle for roles of Paramilitary/IPS officers or NSG-personnel (no less demanding & sometimes even more strenuous/lethal than Armed forces roles) alludes to the fact that either, the Armed forces officers are the best of the lot available (my personal belief), or else, it is all just a matter of chance.

If one can clear the SSB, chances are that he would become an Armed forces officer (Medical or merit list failures were rare, IIRC).
 
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SidNair

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Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

Taking this to a different level - since many members have served the forces, can anyone shed any light on the Indian POWs in Pakistan. Is this topic ever discussed by serving officers? Also how many have heard Sepoy Jaspal Singh of 15 Punjab, who was traced to Masirah Prison, Oman in 2008 (Google)? Its the greatest shame for a nation of over a billion people to leave soldiers to rot for a lifetime in enemy dungeons!!
 

W.G.Ewald

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Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

One of the issue that caused a problem is that the Clerks, refused to clean weapons since they expected the jawans to do it.

It is the duty of all ranks to clean their personal weapon.

When the CO insisted that the clerks their weapon during rifle cleaning parade, the clerks got perky.

So, they don't even want to do legitimate duties either!
Are Clerks female? Some women don't want to clean personal weapons because cleaning is a threat to their manicured nails, from what I have seen in USAR.
 

Ray

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Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

Are Clerks female? Some women don't want to clean personal weapons because cleaning is a threat to their manicured nails, from what I have seen in USAR.
No.

The clerks are the most thick headed clots of the male variety.

They want to act as if they are officers (they maintain the personal records of men and so they have a handle on the men, if the officer is not sharp), when they are actually a cross between some education and total illiteracy!
 

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