Project 15 & 17: GoI Funds Plan to Build New Stealth Destroyers

W.G.Ewald

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what is difference between destroyer and frigate.
Cruisers, Destroyers & Frigates : Navy Equipment : About the Navy : Navy.com

Destroyers
Destroyers, like Cruisers, are guided-missile vessels. They take part in a variety of missions, supporting carrier and expeditionary strike groups and surface strike groups.

Arleigh-Burke Class
Propulsion: Four General Electric LM 2500-30 gas turbines; two shafts; 100,000 total shaft horsepower
Length: Flights I and II (DDG 51-78): 505 feet (153.92 meters); Flight IIA (DDG 79 AF): 509½ feet (155.29 meters)
Beam: 59 feet (18 meters)
Displacement: DDG 51 through 71: 8,230 L tons (8,362.06 metric tons) full load. DDG 72 through 78: 8,637 L tons (8,775.6 metric tons) full load. DDG 79 and following: 9,496 L tons (9,648.40 metric tons) full load.
Speed: In excess of 30 knots (34.5 miles per hour)
Crew: 276
Armament: Standard Missile (SM-2MR); Vertical Launch ASROC (VLA) missiles; Tomahawk®; six MK-46 torpedoes (from two triple-tube mounts); Close In Weapon System (CIWS), 5" MK 45 Gun, Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile (ESSM) (DDG 79 AF)
Aircraft: Two LAMPS MK III MH-60 B/R helicopters with Penguin/Hellfire missiles and MK 46/MK 50 torpedoes
Frigates
The role of frigates is to assist amphibious expeditionary forces and replenish groups and merchant convoys.

Oliver Hazard-Perry Class
Propulsion: Two General Electric LM 2500 gas turbine engines; one shaft, 41,000 shaft horsepower total
Length: 445 feet (133.5 meters); 453 feet (135.9 meters) with LAMPS III modification
Beam: 45 feet (13.5 meters)
Displacement: 4,100 tons (4,165.80 metric tons) full load
Speed: 29+ knots (33.4+ miles per hour)
Crew: 215
Armament: Six MK-46 torpedoes (from two triple mounts); One 76 mm (3-inch)/62 caliber MK 75 rapid fire gun; One Phalanx CIWS
Aircraft: Two SH-60 (LAMPS III) in FFG 8, 28, 29, 32, 33, 36-61; One SH-2 (Lamps Mk-I) in FFG 9-19, 30, 31
I assume IN classes are similar.
 

lookieloo

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what is difference between destroyer and frigate.
Supposedly, frigates are smaller with more localized roles; however... @W.G.Ewald the actual definition varies from navy to navy. Most countries build frigates as mini-destroyers whilst others view them as patrol/ASW assets. Some of the big European "frigates" are only called such because the term "destroyer" is politically incorrect. The USN has so many destroyers now that "frigates" as defined by most other naval forces are redundant. As such the Perry-class no longer carries missiles (in US service) and is being replaced with something completely different (LCS).
 
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p2prada

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IN frigates are bigger than USN frigates and are better equipped. USN frigates have the primary mission of ASW in comparison while IN frigates are multirole.

IN destroyers are smaller and less capable than USN destroyers while performing the same roles. IN does not have as many weapons options as USN destroyers either. Equivalent weapons are still in development (Nirbhay LACM) or not planned at all (AEGIS, Rail gun).
 

W.G.Ewald

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Supposedly, frigates are smaller with more localized roles; however... @W.G.Ewald the actual definition varies from navy to navy. Most countries build frigates as mini-destroyers whilst others view them as patrol/ASW assets. Some of the big European "frigates" are only called such because the term "destroyer" is politically incorrect. The USN has so many destroyers now that "frigates" as defined by most other naval forces are redundant. As such the Perry-class no longer carries missiles (in US service) and is being replaced with something completely different (LCS).
USN had Destroyer Escorts in WWII era.

List of destroyer escorts of the United States Navy


List of destroyer escorts of the United States Navy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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charlyondfi

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IN frigates are bigger than USN frigates and are better equipped. USN frigates have the primary mission of ASW in comparison while IN frigates are multirole.

IN destroyers are smaller and less capable than USN destroyers while performing the same roles. IN does not have as many weapons options as USN destroyers either. Equivalent weapons are still in development (Nirbhay LACM) or not planned at all (AEGIS, Rail gun).
I thought Kolkata will have theatre air defense, sort of aegis. Not sure
 

rohit b3

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IN frigates are bigger than USN frigates and are better equipped. USN frigates have the primary mission of ASW in comparison while IN frigates are multirole.

IN destroyers are smaller and less capable than USN destroyers while performing the same roles. IN does not have as many weapons options as USN destroyers either. Equivalent weapons are still in development (Nirbhay LACM) or not planned at all (AEGIS, Rail gun).

The Kolkata Class Destroyers with its latest stealth design supplemented by BrahMos , Barak 8 and ASW capabilities with both Hull mounted Sonar and Towed array sonar would probably be the best/best equipped destroyer in the world. USN Destroyers are huge, but they dont have a stealth design and use a 25 years old Tomahawk Missle.

Zumwalt class will be perhaps a cutting edge tech when its ready, but then there will be project 15B ..with an "alpha stealth" design along with additions like BrahMos 2, Nirbhay and Barak 8ER SAM. What more could we ask for,except that they be delivered on time!

Btw, does anyone know the Range of Kolkata Class's MFSTAR radar? Some sources say its 370km, some say its 250km. British Type 45s's radar's range is like 400kms, Chinese Type052c's is 450km!
 
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p2prada

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The Kolkata Class Destroyers with its latest stealth design supplemented by BrahMos , Barak 8 and ASW capabilities with both Hull mounted Sonar and Towed array sonar would probably be the best/best equipped destroyer in the world.
The Russians are building new nuclear powered 10000-15000 tonne stealthy destroyers. They are building more than a dozen.

USN Destroyers are huge, but they dont have a stealth design and use a 25 years old Tomahawk Missle.
Tomahawk is more capable than what Nirbhay will be when it is introduced.

Zumwalt class will be perhaps a cutting edge tech when its ready, but then there will be project 15B ..with an "alpha stealth" design along with additions like BrahMos 2, Nirbhay and Barak 8ER SAM. What more could we ask for,except that they be delivered on time!
You have named three missile systems for P-15B, I can name 6 for new and some old USN destroyers.

Harpoon, Tomahawk, ASROC, RIM-162(Barak-8 class with 50 Km range), RIM-172(250 Km range) and RIM-161(700 Km and 1500 Km range - two types for BMD).

We only match one system (RIM-162) and surpass another(Harpoon). The rest, we don't have equivalent types. Nirbhay will take some time before reaching Tomahawk level while Naval RIM-172 and RIM-161 equivalents are not even on the drawing board.

To compare with the Chinese, they have Brahmos equivalent, Harpoon equivalent, Tomahawk equivalent, Barak-8 equivalent and RIM-172 equivalent. Their RIM-161 equivalent is still in development.

I thought Kolkata will have theatre air defense, sort of aegis. Not sure
Yes and no. AEGIS comprises of various missiles, I have named them above. Of the three missile classes in AEGIS we will have only one and it is for fleet defense. Barak-8 does not have BMD capability.
 

rohit b3

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The Russians are building new nuclear powered 10000-15000 tonne stealthy destroyers. They are building more than a dozen.



Tomahawk is more capable than what Nirbhay will be when it is introduced.



You have named three missile systems for P-15B, I can name 6 for new and some old USN destroyers.

Harpoon, Tomahawk, ASROC, RIM-162(Barak-8 class with 50 Km range), RIM-172(250 Km range) and RIM-161(700 Km and 1500 Km range - two types for BMD).

We only match one system (RIM-162) and surpass another(Harpoon). The rest, we don't have equivalent types. Nirbhay will take some time before reaching Tomahawk level while Naval RIM-172 and RIM-161 equivalents are not even on the drawing board.

To compare with the Chinese, they have Brahmos equivalent, Harpoon equivalent, Tomahawk equivalent, Barak-8 equivalent and RIM-172 equivalent. Their RIM-161 equivalent is still in development.



.

What are the names of those Russian destroyers? have they started construction. They seem to have a massive budget crunch, which we are actually helping them with by buying their stuff.

How can you say Tomhawk will be more capable than Nirbhay?

And yeah, i seem to have missed out some of USN SAMs..RIM-172 and RIM 161 seem impressive something we dont plan to have. But on the other hand , do they have anything like our BrahMos/ BrahMos 2? That partly makes up for our Air defence short coming?


And isnt the Barak 8 the latest SAM of its class with the latest systems,etc? I read somewhere saying that "Somethin like Barak 8 has never been developed anywhere in the world before and hence its bound to take time"

And what are the Chinese equivalents called?
 

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till now we dont have long range missiles in ships,also we dont have ballistic nuclear missiles on ships
 

p2prada

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What are the names of those Russian destroyers? have they started construction. They seem to have a massive budget crunch, which we are actually helping them with by buying their stuff.
Names are not known.
Russia develops new generation of stealth destroyers - English pravda.ru

Navy eyes dozen new stealth destroyers — RT News

They have already started construction. These will be nuclear powered.

Their defence procurement budget is currently twice ours. Add the fact that they import very little, they can spend way more in Roubles.

How can you say Tomhawk will be more capable than Nirbhay?
Even Wiki has the specs, read them.

And yeah, i seem to have missed out some of USN SAMs..RIM-172 and RIM 161 seem impressive something we dont plan to have. But on the other hand , do they have anything like our BrahMos/ BrahMos 2? That partly makes up for our Air defence short coming?
It doesn't matter to them. What they cannot match with speed, they will match with stealth using the new LRASM-A. Their recon assets are far superior to anybody else anyway. They have almost 500 fighters at sea at anytime.

And isnt the Barak 8 the latest SAM of its class with the latest systems,etc? I read somewhere saying that "Somethin like Barak 8 has never been developed anywhere in the world before and hence its bound to take time"
France has Aster, Russia has newer Shtil variants, US has ESSM, China has Shtil derivatives and so on. Most of these are in the Barak-8 class.

And what are the Chinese equivalents called?
Harpoon equivalent = C-802 family, multiple variants
LRASM-A equivalent = C-602, new missile
Brahmos equivalent - YJ-12.
Tomahawk equivalent = HN family, four variants now
Barak/ESSM class = Shtil derivatives from Russia
RIM-172 class (250 Km range) = HQ-9 family. But these have high range and higher altitude with BMD capability.
RIM-162 class Block 1 SM-3 (500 Km altitude, 700 Km range) - Chinese KKV that they used to destroy a satellite. So its still in development.

Apart from YJ-12, they have a number of other supersonic missiles using rocket propulsion, the latest being CM-400AKG for export.

India
indigenous equipment
Only Brahmos has a decent indigenous development effort put into it.
Harpoon equivalent - none. We use foreign analogues like Uran.
LRASM-A equivalent - none. We don't need it.
Tomahawk equivalent - Currently none. Nirbhay will take a decade at least to achieve Tomahawk's capability.
Barak - Missile has indigenous parts, but the system itself is not indigenous.
RIM-172 class - Possibility exists if we modify AAD for naval use against aircraft. But there is no known development program for a ship based system, only a land based system. There is no requirement anyway.
RIM-162 class - Talks of using Agni V's stage 1 to make a KKV for anti-sat and BMD capability.
 
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rohit b3

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Names are not known.
Russia develops new generation of stealth destroyers - English pravda.ru

Navy eyes dozen new stealth destroyers — RT News

They have already started construction. These will be nuclear powered.

Their defence procurement budget is currently twice ours. Add the fact that they import very little, they can spend way more in Roubles.



Even Wiki has the specs, read them.



It doesn't matter to them. What they cannot match with speed, they will match with stealth using the new LRASM-A. Their recon assets are far superior to anybody else anyway. They have almost 500 fighters at sea at anytime.



France has Aster, Russia has newer Shtil variants, US has ESSM, China has Shtil derivatives and so on. Most of these are in the Barak-8 class.



Harpoon equivalent = C-802 family, multiple variants
LRASM-A equivalent = C-602, new missile
Brahmos equivalent - YJ-12.
Tomahawk equivalent = HN family, four variants now
Barak/ESSM class = Shtil derivatives from Russia
RIM-172 class (250 Km range) = HQ-9 family. But these have high range and higher altitude with BMD capability.
RIM-162 class Block 1 SM-3 (500 Km altitude, 700 Km range) - Chinese KKV that they used to destroy a satellite. So its still in development.

Apart from YJ-12, they have a number of other supersonic missiles using rocket propulsion, the latest being CM-400AKG for export.

India
indigenous equipment
Only Brahmos has a decent indigenous development effort put into it.
Harpoon equivalent - none. We use foreign analogues like Uran.
LRASM-A equivalent - none. We don't need it.
Tomahawk equivalent - Currently none. Nirbhay will take a decade at least to achieve Tomahawk's capability.
Barak - Missile has indigenous parts, but the system itself is not indigenous.
RIM-172 class - Possibility exists if we modify AAD for naval use against aircraft. But there is no known development program for a ship based system, only a land based system. There is no requirement anyway.
RIM-162 class - Talks of using Agni V's stage 1 to make a KKV for anti-sat and BMD capability.

Wow, okay, learnt quite some new stuff today. Thanks!

Though i still feel that that Nirbhay stats are pretty vague,as its still in developement, and being a 25 years modern missle its bound to be equal/better than Tomahawk.

By the way, the American airdefence seems to be very solid, but the Brits say that the Americans have admitted that the Britishh Type 45 ships have better Air defence with their Asters. Asters seem to be much inferior on paper..lowe range,etc. So can it be true? or is it another Bogus British claim?
 

p2prada

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Wow, okay, learnt quite some new stuff today. Thanks!

Though i still feel that that Nirbhay stats are pretty vague,as its still in developement, and being a 25 years modern missle its bound to be equal/better than Tomahawk.
Nirbhay and Tomahawk have very similar stats. But Tomahawk have fully developed warheads, guidance systems and command and control while Nirbhay is a Tomahawk class missile still in development.

Nirbhay is an attempt to replicate the Tomahawk. That is to say, we are trying to do today what the US did 25 years ago. It is not a revolutionary new missile system like Brahmos II.

By the way, the American airdefence seems to be very solid, but the Brits say that the Americans have admitted that the Britishh Type 45 ships have better Air defence with their Asters. Asters seem to be much inferior on paper..lowe range,etc. So can it be true? or is it another Bogus British claim?
Aster is better than the American standards because the Aster is capable of BMD, RIM-162 and even RIM-174 are not.

There are two Aster versions. Aster-15 has a 30 Km range and 18 Km altitude limit and functions like Barak-8 (70 Km range and 18 Km altitude) and ESSM (RIM-162, 50 Km range, 18 Km altitude). Don't look too much at the range performance because when acting against incoming enemy anti-ship missiles at very low altitudes the ranges will come down to being very similar along with speed.

Aster-30 has a 120 Km range and altitude capability of 30 Km. At this range and capability, Barak-8 and ESSM are no match. All the while the second missile and the first missile have the same guidance and C&C elements which makes it cheaper and superior in capability. So, Aster 30 is a lesser capable version of the AAD. Basically, Barak-8 ER will have the same range as Aster-30 but won't engage targets beyond aircraft altitude. So Barak-8 is at the level of Aster-30 Block 0 missile and not the latest Block 2.
 

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Ukraine Agrees to Provide India With Engines for Russian Built Krivak Frigate


Krivak class frigates will be powered by M90FR gas turbines designed and built by Zorya-Mashproekt in Ukraine. Following the Russia-Ukraine conflict, Ukraine had stopped the supply of the engines.

New Delhi (Sputnik) — India has convinced Ukraine to provide engines that can be fitted in the improved Krivak class frigates that India is to purchase from Russia. India's Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar said that a consensus had been reached with Ukraine for power plants to be fitted in the Russian made frigates. "Discussions started long back. The only problem was because of the Ukraine-Russia conflict as the ship's power plant is Ukrainian. Now, we will buy the power plant and fit it on the ship."


During the India-Russia annual summit held in Goa earlier this month, an inter-governmental agreement was signed wherein it was stipulated that India would buy four improved Krivak class stealth frigates from Russia. The basic structure of two frigates has already been completed in Russia, while the other two frigates will be constructed at Indian shipyards with associated technology transfer. "All Indian equipment will be fitted on the frigate. So, it is a stealth variety where we are involved in the design," Parrikar said. It is expected that a brief discussion on the purchase of stealth frigates will be held during the Indo-Russian Inter Governmental Commission on Military Technical Cooperation meeting scheduled for October 26 in New Delhi.

Read more: https://sputniknews.com/military/201610251046722902-ukraine-india-krivak-frigate/
 

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