Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[ersakthivel]

First this statement about all around protection is simple advertisement. It is just immposible to place Kanchan all around because all composite armors need a lot of space, placing such armor all around would make tank incredibly big and heavy.

Another thing is that such statement is false in it's basics, because Kanchan developers never tested all modern MBT's and their protection, this further gives a hint that statement is simple advertisement, and only fools believe in it.

No one needs to test armor by having all tanks standing side by side,

Just a reliable data about the penetration of one known ammo type against other armor to be compared ,

is a good enough indicator of the performance of KANCHAN armor , if the same ammo type is tested on KANCHAN armor.

You don't believe anything you see on the net, as your history professor once told you famously, So how could any on believe your above claims?

Just now it is proved that there is lot of space all around ARJUn with 3 plus meter wide turret and just 2 meter wide inner crew compartment,

So what occupies the remaining 1 meter (0.5 meters each on both the sides of the turret) is something which is quite commonsense,

You believe the remaining 1 meter width is occupied by water tank or fuel tank or 3 storage boxes,

I believe there are reasons there to suggest just 2 storage boxes and enough space for composite armor cavity on turret sides,

In the absence of any concrete evidence to validate this claim the decent thing is,

for you and me to keep quiet about it and just let other members debate about other points of ARJUN among themselves,

as we both had occupied a space just too big on this thread for our own good,

BYE

 

[ersakthivel]

i count 4 locks on one box, and on the commanders side it's impossible to tell the number of storage boxes and locks due to the angle.

it is the first time that you have admitted your inability to see some thing from a photo,

not with fair intentions though, if you zoom you can clearly see it,

Anyway a nice first try.

 

[ersakthivel]

the article was written before india received the T-90 tanks, and it's talking about the present generation tanks of the indian army.
as for the blurb about allround protection, it doesn't say what types of anti-tank ammunition, nor what generation.

all tanks in the world today sacrifices heavy side armour for higher mobility, there's no tank in the world with side protection equal to the front protection.

Many modern western MBTs have varying degree of side armor protection is just my opinion,the blurb never says that ARJUn has equal side protection compared to front, it is just your understanding of the statement,

it only says composite armor all around and better than the other tanks present in Indian army

Arjun has an all-round protection from antitank ammunition achieved by the newly developed Kanchan armour to a degree much higher than available in the present generation tanks.

So in your opinion the quote does not include T-90 , I won't argue with it as it is just your personal opinion ,

Do you think that the IA is supposed to have some idea about what type of anti tank ammunitions they were referring to or not?

, after all they are driving tanks for the past 60 years perhaps,

 

[Dejawolf]

Many modern western MBTs have varying degree of side armor protection is just my opinion,the blurb never says that ARJUn has equal side protection compared to front, it is just your understanding of the statement,

it only says composite armor all around and better than the other tanks present in Indian army



So in your opinion the quote does not include T-90 , I won't argue with it as it is just your personal opinion ,

Do you think that the IA is supposed to have some idea about what type of anti tank ammunitions they were referring to or not?
,

they say "newly developed" kanchan armour. Afaik, kanchan armour was developed in the mid 80s.
T-90 bhisma was delivered to the indian army in 2004. connect the dots.
there's 2 possibilities.
1: they don't know what they're talking about
2: the article was written a long time ago.

and also, why is there a hose coming from the "armour" module?

 

[Dejawolf]

Just now it is proved that there is lot of space all around ARJUn with 3 plus meter wide turret and just 2 meter wide inner crew compartment,

how did you measure the inner crew compartment to be 2 meters wide?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I see this more of a knee jerk comment, Any Armour of any country update itself according to time ..

Indian Kanchan Armour is kept on improvements as per new technology evolved according to time..


Btw, Indian made T-90S use Kanchan Armour Only..

===================

Just asking, What is your qualifications ?

Afaik, kanchan armour was developed in the mid 80s.

1: they don't know what they're talking about .

 

[Dejawolf]

it is the first time that you have admitted your inability to see some thing from a photo,

not with fair intentions though, if you zoom you can clearly see it,

Anyway a nice first try.

well, look at the latches on the tank to the left of it. how many can you count? i can only count 2, which i know is wrong, because the tank on the far left has 4 latches.

 

[Dejawolf]

I see this more of a knee jerk comment, Any Armour of any country update itself according to time ..

Indian Kanchan Armour is kept on improvements as per new technology evolved according to time..


Btw, Indian made T-90S use Kanchan Armour Only..

===================

Just asking, What is your qualifications ?

qualifications? 10 years developing the worlds most realistic tank simulator on PC, used by several militaries around the world, including spain,sweden, denmark, poland, Canada, Austria, Australia...
creating over 100 3d models of tanks, plus several high-detail interior models of various tanks and IFVs including the
leopard 2A4, strv 122 leopardo 2E, leopard 1A5DK, leopard 2A5DK, T-72M1, M2A2 bradley, CV9030F, CV9040B, CV9040C, M1A1 abrams, Pizarro, B1 Centauro and 2-3 other ones which are secret until the next released version of SB.
i've personally visited the army bases in several countries, climbed all over and measured several vehicles to create these 3d interiors, including the strv 122, CV9040B, pizarro, Centauro, CV9030F, and leopard 2A4.
i pretty much measure vehicles and estimate armour for a living.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

And you are saying against people done PHD on various Subjects before getting a post to build a tank.. !?

qualifications? 10 years developing the worlds most realistic tank simulator on PC...

 

[sayareakd]

qualifications? 10 years developing the worlds most realistic tank simulator on PC...
creating over 100 3d models of tanks, plus several high-detail interior models of various tanks and IFVs including the
leopard 2A4, strv 122 leopardo 2E, leopard 1A5DK, leopard 2A5DK, T-72M1, M2A2 bradley, CV9030F, CV9040B, CV9040C, M1A1 abrams, Pizarro, B1 Centauro and 2-3 other ones which are secret until the next released version of SB.
i've personally visited the army bases in several countries, climbed all over and measured several vehicles to create these 3d interiors, including the strv 122, CV9040B, pizarro, Centauro, CV9030F, and leopard 2A4.
i pretty much measure vehicles and estimate armour for a living.

well all sir you have done good work here, but i have personally checked and measured one part and all i can say is that your measurement is not correct. if that be the case with same yardstick, your calculation are wrong.

You have posted one of my pic with the tank that is proof that i have gone and checked it.

 

[Dejawolf]

And you are saying against people done PHD on various Subjects before getting a post to build a tank.. !?

can you rephrase that into a coherent sentence please?

 

[sayareakd]

how many rugged display are their in Arjun tank ?

here is the old one i posted long time back

 

[trackwhack]

i pretty much measure vehicles and estimate armour for a living.

except of course the tank in question - arjun. yet you do not want to accept numbers provided by some of our respected members who have actually measured it. you expect respect for your qualifications but somehow feel others lack the credibility to be taken seriously? dude...

 

[STGN]

look at the sides of all the tanks which belong to the 2006 production lot ,

where is the slope on turret? As far as I can see sides seem straight only,with no 40 cm worth slope anywhere as some people argue here.

The frontal armor blck wedges up and down slightly , but no side turret slope is visible.

Also note, we are talking about the availability of space for composite armor cavity besides the crew hatch of TC here,

Before him there are heavy armor panels of the frontal armor block,

and behind him there is no crew compartment ,

and there is no way you can judge the side armor from photos for the turret side portion behind him,.

Come on now think a little. its very difficult to determine whether it is sloped from the front. anyway you are looking at it.

and offcause you can't see 40cm because its based on you inflated 3.2 number and 2.8 its around ~15 cm per side not 30 on one side.
STGN

 

[STGN]

except of course the tank in question - arjun. yet you do not want to accept numbers provided by some of our respected members who have actually measured it. you expect respect for your qualifications but somehow feel others lack the credibility to be taken seriously? dude...

Who measured it? Kunal Biswas fingered it apparently. And other just looked at it and felt that 3.2 is properly right.
STGN

 

[STGN]

well all sir you have done good work here, but i have personally checked and measured one part and all i can say is that your measurement is not correct. if that be the case with same yardstick, your calculation are wrong.

You have posted one of my pic with the tank that is proof that i have gone and checked it.

So which part did you measure and what did it measure?
STGN

 

[Damian]

No one needs to test armor by having all tanks standing side by side,

Just a reliable data about the penetration of one known ammo type against other armor to be compared ,

is a good enough indicator of the performance of KANCHAN armor , if the same ammo type is tested on KANCHAN armor.

You don't believe anything you see on the net, as your history professor once told you famously, So how could any on believe your above claims?

Just now it is proved that there is lot of space all around ARJUn with 3 plus meter wide turret and just 2 meter wide inner crew compartment,

So what occupies the remaining 1 meter (0.5 meters each on both the sides of the turret) is something which is quite commonsense,

You believe the remaining 1 meter width is occupied by water tank or fuel tank or 3 storage boxes,

I believe there are reasons there to suggest just 2 storage boxes and enough space for composite armor cavity on turret sides,

In the absence of any concrete evidence to validate this claim the decent thing is,

for you and me to keep quiet about it and just let other members debate about other points of ARJUN among themselves,

as we both had occupied a space just too big on this thread for our own good,

BYE

This is good for amateurs like you. In reality top manufacturers make their ammunition and armor capabilities classified, so you can dellusion yourself, but the reality is that statements you use as a "source" are only advertisements.

As for your beliefs, I treat the same as people beliefs in god or gods, this is same BS as relligion of any sort.

 

[Dejawolf]

except of course the tank in question - arjun. yet you do not want to accept numbers provided by some of our respected members who have actually measured it. you expect respect for your qualifications but somehow feel others lack the credibility to be taken seriously? dude...

i've been around plenty of tanks, that doesn't mean i know their exact width and height just by looking at them. i still need to use a measuring tape.

 

[ersakthivel]

qualifications? 10 years developing the worlds most realistic tank simulator on PC, used by several militaries around the world, including spain,sweden, denmark, poland, Canada, Austria, Australia...
creating over 100 3d models of tanks, plus several high-detail interior models of various tanks and IFVs including the
leopard 2A4, strv 122 leopardo 2E, leopard 1A5DK, leopard 2A5DK, T-72M1, M2A2 bradley, CV9030F, CV9040B, CV9040C, M1A1 abrams, Pizarro, B1 Centauro and 2-3 other ones which are secret until the next released version of SB.
i've personally visited the army bases in several countries, climbed all over and measured several vehicles to create these 3d interiors, including the strv 122, CV9040B, pizarro, Centauro, CV9030F, and leopard 2A4.
i pretty much measure vehicles and estimate armour for a living.

So you call this flawed measurement , the fruit of your 10 years experience,

claiming a straightened shoe will measure close to 450 mm,and a wrist cross section measuring 90 mm

You don't even know which axis along with to mark a length on a tank that is not perpendicular to the observe,

you are supposed to measure the distance at 90 degrees from the base of the turret side(along the spurs which hold the side skirt to the tank hull),

if you do that you will get just 360 mm (just two spur width is there )width besides the turret side on ARJUN hull,

One spur width equals approx 3 wrist widths , it means 3x60 mm=180 mm(one spur width ).

2x180 mm=360 mm(two spur width ).

So 2x360= 720 mm(on both sides),
3840-720 mm=3120 mm(turret width).

3120 mm-2100 mm(crew compartment)= close to 1 meter both sides combined.



Instead you are measuring and marking it along an irrelevant axis.

If some one asks what is a height of the triangle , where do you measure ?

will you measure the perpendicular height ,From the center point of the baseline to the triangle's tip at 90 degrees angle ,

or,

from the edge of the base line to the tip along the slanting line of the triangle?

 

[ersakthivel]

Come on now think a little. its very difficult to determine whether it is sloped from the front. anyway you are looking at it.

and offcause you can't see 40cm because its based on you inflated 3.2 number and 2.8 its around ~15 cm per side not 30 on one side.
STGN

i am posting pictures of front side , you are comparing it with back side.

From the picrures of production lot of ARJUn in 2008 , I see no such curvature on ARJUN turret front side.