Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[plugwater]

I guess they are working on the engine which will be indigenous.

They added 93 upgrades and i think those sub-sytems are to blame for the cost hype. If they remove 50 upgrades which wont be needed then the cost may be controlled or try to copy them and make it in India.

They are working on the engine too long, yet to succeed.
There are upgrades because they are needed you cant just take them out cos of the cost.

 

[agentperry]

37 crores price tag and such a big body are a big drawback of arjun. moreover its not 100% indigenous to give it a special look.... though USA and Israel have bigger and heavier tanks but they are cheap too. and apart from price usa maintain big cargo fleet which can transport them anytime anywhere and Israel is too small to have any trouble.. i think taking tank from delhi-haryana border to punjab himachal border is not an issue for any army

 

[Damian]

though USA and Israel have bigger and heavier tanks but they are cheap too.

Bigger? Not really, Arjun size is comparabale. Heavier, yes, mostly due to more advanced composite armor. Cheaper? Yes because more experience in designing and manufacturing, better logistic base etc.

and apart from price usa maintain big cargo fleet which can transport them anytime anywhere

I would not compare any country to US, US have 8000-9000+ tank fleet composed of one type (M1 Abrams series) with effort to upgrade all fleet to 3 unified variants (M1A1SA, M1A1FEP and M1A2SEP) with desire for further modernisation (M1A3), no other country have such capabilities.

India is more comparabale with Israel that is also maintaining rather big tank fleet composed of different tank types in different variants (M60A1/A3 Magach 6 and Magach 7, Merkava series in Mk1, Mk2, Mk3, Mk4 and their subvariants + other older vehicles still stored somewhere).

 

[agentperry]

Bigger? Not really, Arjun size is comparabale. Heavier, yes, mostly due to more advanced composite armor. Cheaper? Yes because more experience in designing and manufacturing, better logistic base etc.



I would not compare any country to US, US have 8000-9000+ tank fleet composed of one type (M1 Abrams series) with effort to upgrade all fleet to 3 unified variants (M1A1SA, M1A1FEP and M1A2SEP) with desire for further modernisation (M1A3), no other country have such capabilities.

India is more comparabale with Israel that is also maintaining rather big tank fleet composed of different tank types in different variants (M60A1/A3 Magach 6 and Magach 7, Merkava series in Mk1, Mk2, Mk3, Mk4 and their subvariants + other older vehicles still stored somewhere).

its not required to transport 8000 tank to battle zone... the amount required can be easily transported.. moreover you cant compare indian and israel situation on the account of geographical diversity India possess. there might be need to transport tanks from rajasthan to assam then... just 20 ils wont do... its will take days to transfer even a division of arjun provided Il can take such a heavy tank in it....

 

[Damian]

How many tanks in active fleet Indian Army have, for example US have ~2000-2500 tanks in active fleet rest in reserves, I think that India also will have around ~2000-3000 tank fleet as a whole. Not a big problem, Your Army have HET's and railroad systems to transport heavy military equipment?

 

[agentperry]

How many tanks in active fleet Indian Army have, for example US have ~2000-2500 tanks in active fleet rest in reserves, I think that India also will have around ~2000-3000 tank fleet as a whole. Not a big problem, Your Army have HET's and railroad systems to transport heavy military equipment?

check your facts... first, leave tank you yourself go to assam or sikkim though train from rajasthan... i bet even if you go through uninterrupted train/express you couldnt reach there within 2 days.second the mountain tracks dont allow speedy movement. and moreover one shell on hill top and there goes track in the deep valley. 2000 tanks.. taking even 100 may take weeks if not months.

 

[Damian]

Oh I see, terrible infrastructure.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

its not required to transport 8000 tank to battle zone... the amount required can be easily transported.. moreover you cant compare indian and israel situation on the account of geographical diversity India possess. there might be need to transport tanks from rajasthan to assam then... just 20 ils wont do... its will take days to transfer even a division of arjun provided Il can take such a heavy tank in it....

37 crores price tag and such a big body are a big drawback of arjun. moreover its not 100% indigenous to give it a special look.... though USA and Israel have bigger and heavier tanks but they are cheap too. and apart from price usa maintain big cargo fleet which can transport them anytime anywhere and Israel is too small to have any trouble.. i think taking tank from delhi-haryana border to punjab himachal border is not an issue for any army

How many tanks in active fleet Indian Army have, for example US have ~2000-2500 tanks in active fleet rest in reserves, I think that India also will have around ~2000-3000 tank fleet as a whole. Not a big problem, Your Army have HET's and railroad systems to transport heavy military equipment?

check your facts... first, leave tank you yourself go to assam or sikkim though train from rajasthan... i bet even if you go through uninterrupted train/express you couldnt reach there within 2 days.second the mountain tracks dont allow speedy movement. and moreover one shell on hill top and there goes track in the deep valley. 2000 tanks.. taking even 100 may take weeks if not months.

Arjun MK1 is at 200+ and the Number will go to 500 soon mostly with MK2, These Machines are meant for Thar for now coz of No..

T-90S & T-72M1 are in larger numbers hence they are every where..


Arjun is transportable via Rail and Road, Army mobilizations time is less than 48hours in western sector..

Eastern Sector is in development, The only transportation of Tanks is via Air in NE..

So, No transportation of Arjun over NE until C17s arrive in good numbers.

 

[agentperry]

Arjun MK1 is at 200+ and the Number will go to 500 soon mostly with MK2, These Machines are meant for Thar for now coz of No..

T-90S & T-72M1 are in larger numbers hence they are every where..


Arjun is transportable via Rail and Road, Army mobilizations time is less than 48hours in western sector..

Eastern Sector is in development, The only transportation of Tanks is via Air in NE..

So, No transportation of Arjun over NE until C17s arrive in good numbers.

thats what i was saying to damian... but are you sure about army seriousness toward arjun... they said that 124 mark 2 will be inducted by 2015. and whats the delivery schedule of another 248 arjun mk 2.
in my view a big permanent tank base should be formed in NE or may be bicommand.

 

[jamwal]

As far as i KNow, North East is not really a tank country except for a few exceptions. Why do I see so much discussions on transportation logistics when Indian Army doesn't even have much need for heavy tanks like Arjun in such terrain.
In case of absolute necessity, tanks can be transported in knocked down condition by aircraft, but it'll take quite a bit of effort and time

 

[Kunal Biswas]

thats what i was saying to damian...
but are you sure about army seriousness toward arjun...
they said that 124 mark 2 will be inducted by 2015.
and whats the delivery schedule of another 248 arjun mk 2.
in my view a big permanent tank base should be formed in NE or may be bicommand.

Army is serious other wise wouldn't agree on 37 per piece deal, thats a fact..

200+ are order only after hard test done with T-90S where Arjun proved to be victorious..

We have only ONE HVF, So it takes time..

Yes we should have, But lighter tanks on order 100 tracked and 200 wheeled with supplement of T-72 and T-90S with BMP2.

I hope u do know abt the news on Army NE strike force details..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

 

[pack leader]

a few remarks :
1) magach 6 and 7 are retired and used for scrap metal to make merkava 4m hulls
2) the merkava mark 1 (all 300 tanks ) is also decommissioned because of structural defects and inadequate armor
3) by 2015-2016 all mark 2 will be decommissioned in favor off new merkava 4m thus saving money ( no need for 105 ammo )


as far as i can tell the new arjun will be a merkava 4 with a back mounted Cummings engine and a challenger gun

 

[p2prada]

as far as i can tell the new arjun will be a merkava 4 with a back mounted Cummings engine and a challenger gun

I will not dispute the first point about Merkava 4. But Arjun Mk2 will have an indigenous engine, designed and made in India along with an Indian gun made by ARDE.

Only equipment that cannot be designed or made in India as of today will be imported from Israel or Europe like thermals, APS, radios, nav equipment and maybe even ERA. Even these will be indigenized over time.

EDIT: Some articles talk about a Cummins engine from Cummins India. But that may not be the engine DRDO may be working on.

 

[jamwal]

)


as far as i can tell the new arjun will be a merkava 4 with a back mounted Cummings engine and a challenger gun

Care to explain this statement ?

 

[pack leader]

Care to explain this statement ?

OK :
arjun mark 2 will have the following Israeli content (partly made in India under license )
elbit systems fcs (knight 4) electronics + optics (other country's got only knight 2 or 3 )
elbit system bms a modified version of torch bms (also exported to Australia )
elbit system laser warning system lwas
imi remade sloped full electric drive
imi "iron fist" hard + soft kill system
imi 120 mm ammo
imi rws wave series
iai "lahat" tube fired missile

 

[sayareakd]

Pack dont give too much info.....................

 

[agentperry]

so arjun is desi made foreign maal with supernormal cost.....
difficult times
national pride vs pragmatic choice

 

[sayareakd]

cost is OK, if you see other MBT in same category, plus what you get is not export quality (remember export quality for defence product is inferior to what domestic supplier uses most of the time).

 

[Kunal Biswas]

cost is OK, if you see other MBT in same category, plus what you get is not export quality (remember export quality for defence product is inferior to what domestic supplier uses most of the time).

Their are several issues regarding cost one is few orders..

Production lines will be closed for 30 months before new tanks manufacture..