Zero for DRDO

Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by Bhadra, Apr 26, 2013.

  1. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    Zero for DRDO




    The Indian Air Force has been clever over the years in a petty sort of way. Short-range or medium-range combat aircraft and so on are uniquely IAF nomenclature; no other Air Force has such categories. In the age of aerial tankers, describing warplanes by their radii of action is a distraction.

    Forty years ago the IAF invented another category of warplanes — “deep penetration and strike aircraft”, which permitted the purchase of Jaguar. The IAF sees this sort of thing as a harmless ruse to serve its interest. The multiplicity of combat aircraft thus procured allows, the service believes, in a crisis to at least have some squadrons in its fleet not subject to sanctions or the spares-and-servicing tourniquet, which supplier countries in greater or lesser measure always apply, depending on their foreign policy goals and national interests of the moment, and which tool of manipulation is now legitimated by the recent Arms Trade Treaty.
    This policy of buying aircraft from diverse sources was first articulated in a 2006 note from Air Headquarters (AHQ) to the ministry of defence (MoD), which stated that the requirement for a sub-30-ton fully loaded combat aircraft was being deliberately proposed to escape the Russian stranglehold, and avoid going in for more Sukhoi-30 MKIs or the upgraded variant the “Super” Sukhois. Thus, Rafale passed the spurious test, clocking in at 27 tons. Of course, the IAF-invented range-dictated categories serve another purpose. They confuse generalist civil servants in the MoD and convincing clueless politicians that there are big gaps in combat aircraft numbers which need filling.

    In this game of “fool you, fool me”, where the IAF is being jerked around by supplier countries, the threat to national security stays unaddressed. IAF is principally to blame, of course. But the inability of the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) and other Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) units tasked with aircraft and on-board systems designs, and the sheer incompetence of Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) are equally responsible.

    So criminally negligent has HAL been that in all the years it assembled a variety of MiG-21s, MiG-27s, MiG-29s, and the Jaguar, and the power plants for each of these aircraft at its Koraput factory, it failed to maintain a database. In other words, for all the licence manufacturing it has done over the years, by failing to compile how every component in the aircraft and in the engines does what and how, it has learnt nothing. Had HAL maintained a database of all the items it has put together, the country by now would have had the built-up capability to manufacture the Tejas Mk-I and Mk-II on the run. But this defence public sector unit has reduced itself to an adjunct of supplier companies. That top HAL leadership has not been brought to account on this score and that the Indian taxpayer continues funding such profligacy only reflects the state of things.

    DRDO, on its part, has prospered by creating illusion. Other than in certain areas, such as in writing sophisticated software and devising complex algorithms to drive military systems, DRDO projects are mostly scams. Behind every project that’s touted for realising “self-sufficiency” lies imported technology in some guise. In fact, it has been so grossly inept in not insisting on total transfer of technology from its partners that foreign defence firms happily strike deals in which Indian monies fund the development of state-of-the-art technology in other countries but get nothing out of it except finished high-cost products. It is not the fault of the supplier firms that DRDO has proved so inattentive, gullible, and plain reckless with public monies. Take for example the advanced medium-range and long-range missile systems supposedly being collaboratively developed with Israel.

    Except in striking a contract for `15,000 crore, DRDO settled for only a work-share arrangement and that too to fabricate the low-value backend of these missile systems, with the Israeli company retaining the intellectual property rights on all the technology so developed. A similar deal for a short-range missile system with Dassault Aviation has just been signed and another `30,000 crore is consequently going down the drain. Because in this business suckers are not given an even chance, the foreign companies can hardly be blamed for exploiting DRDO’s unwillingness to leverage India’s financial subsidy to obtain full proprietary and production rights for all technologies generated in such projects. So what is the department of defence finance doing other than sleeping on the job?

    If DRDO brass were to be hauled up, it would be like pulling out a foundational stone that could bring the whole fraudulent public sector defence industrial edifice that, notwithstanding its claims, has produced no original technology after the Marut HF-24 in the 1970s, tumbling down. It is the reason why the Naresh Chandra Committee’s recommendation that the offices of scientific adviser to defence minister, head of DRDO, and secretary defence R&D be separated, may never get implemented. There are too many vested interests in the armed services, DRDO, and DPSUs who have it good to want this situation to change.

    Coming back to Rafale, had Reliance Aerospace gone about it the right way it could have emulated Larsen & Tubro (L&T), which has indigenously developed the engineering, tooling, and manufacturing capability to locally produce everything from nuclear-powered and conventional submarines of any design to artillery systems. This proactive attitude to build up its all-round capability means it is in a position to benefit from “transfer of technology” portions of deals for high-value weapons platforms India has signed in the past two decades, and very quickly to absorb foreign technologies India pays for but which, owing to the complete inability and incompetence of defence public sector units, has to-date not capitalised on. We are talking cumulatively of waste now reaching the thousand billion dollar-level.

    If the L&T business model is too onerous, Reliance Aerospace, instead of turning itself into a mere cog in the Dassault Aviation machine by channelling payoffs to the right quarters in the ruling party to lubricate the Rafale deal, could have tried to buy off large chunks of the Rafale-maker, Dassault Aviation itself, as the Tatas have done by purchasing the South African company Denel’s entire 155mm/52 calibre Howitzer line. That might have been the second-best strategy to become a commercially viable defence production entity in double-quick time and do right by the country as well.

    MOD Edit:

    Source added: http://www.deccanchronicle.com/130426/commentary-columnists/commentary/zero-drdo
     
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  3. Austin

    Austin Regular Member

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    I agree Reliance is the biggest organisation that thrives on bribing from ministers babus to PMO and it would bribe away into the Rafale deal.........Reliance Aerospace :D
     
  4. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    @Bhadra, are you the author of this article? If not, please provide the source.
     
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  5. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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  6. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    Well waiting for the fanboys to come in droves to defend their beloved DRDO.
     
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  7. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Remember starting a thread 3-4 years back asking the same question. If we have had ToT for years on various weapons systems, why have we failed to learn from it and produce our own ones. Fighter aircrafts are a prominent example. We really suck big time.
     
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  8. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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  9. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

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    Job at DRDO is like job with any other 'Sarkari' department. Its good people are getting jobs and their Rozi Roti, chullah chownka is going on; all other things are not that important.
     
  10. ersakthivel

    ersakthivel Senior Member Senior Member

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    the first surefire evidence that the reporter who wrote the article is aa unqualified pig head gets exposed when he mentions that HAL has failed to maintain a database of all the thing they produce. All the things produced by the HAl are being continuously produced for decades for Jags and migs and sukhois. By saying that the HAl has no database on these components does the reporter mean whether the HAL has lost all the production drawings of all the critical components which are required for the IAf fleet of Mid and jags and sukhois.

    So how is it going to maintain them and supply spares? does he also think that the koraput engine facility that builds the Al-31 engine for Sukhoi-30 has no production drawings database of the components it make.it 's kinda scary to let pigheads like this to write about defence matters.

    What I shudder to think is what kind of dumbass editor accepts these thrash and allows them to get printed.
    Well let me list out the origin of the report. media all over india is crying hoarse that lca tejas is 30 years late. And corruption allegations cloud the mega defence deals . one drunken evening the editor and the so called accused defence journo sit over the table with few rounds of drinks well inside their digestive systems.

    they decide to THROW SOME LIGHT on how IAf cheats MOD. How DRDO cheats GOI, WHY Tejas is 30 years late?And may be both the guys have some shares in RIL as well.

    The guy who is accused of being defence journo is fresh from bollywood scoop beat. he is an authority about how sallu cheats ash, how ash ditched sallu, how sallu hitched up with kat, how sallu hunted the deers, how cat ditched sallu, how kareena ditched shahid, how saif hitched with kareena.

    he had a good databases of hitches and ditches reay(unlike the chappal wearing pinheads at HAl and DRDO).So this great article is born as ten times worse than april fool's joke.

    First the person who is accused of being a defence journo responsible for the article works his database to find reasons for THIRTY YEAR DELAY in LCA. Sinces it is filled with bollywood hitch and ditch he couldn't fathom why? So he decides to hit out on the poor HAL for not maintaining any database of the components it produced , because if it is there according to his double doctorate brain ADA guys would have copied them and produced tejas on the run.hell with such nonsense like project definition phase,TD-1 and 2 ,PV , LSP stages and IOc , FOC stuff. these are all not there in hitch and dich land of bolly wood scoops.

    Then he thinks IAF is stupid for diversifying into different of fighters according to the task at hand. May be the guy will drive in his car inside the home if he wants to go to toilet from the living room. Because as per logic just one vehicle is enough for everyday movements wherever we need to go and whatever we need to do. he is not dumb like IAf which maintains diversified platforms for different purposes.

    With these great intelligent ang well researched ideas such deeply knowledgable article has been born.
    if people are so interested in RIl getting into defence deals why don't they ask RIL to muster it's project management ability to fix the issues with something as simple as INSAS rifles wjhich is about to be thrown away by the IA for not being good enough.if they do it, it will be a great day for the contry. people like BABA KALYANI of BHARATH forge and TATA guys are sinking their own money and mastering the tech of 150 mm Howitzers in the class of famed BOFORS class without any assurance of orders from GOI. L&T is setting up a great naval ship building yard at their own cost expecting orders from the GOI with no guarentee and they are involved in ARIHANT and various missile programs as well.

    WHY leaving all these guys aside ,should Dassault name reliance which has not shown any involvement Indian defence sector till yesterday and no heavy engineering manufacturing capacity..
    Will reliance resolve the problem of something as simple as INSAS rifle by spending some of it's own money?


    I have entered the whole post of mine in the comments section of the site,
    http://idrw.org/?p=21322#comment-38293,
    lets see how the journo responds,if he really wants to
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2013
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  11. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    @ersakthivel,

    How many types of Aircraft does the USAF operate, or the French or the Israeli and you will get your answer. Learn to accept facts rather than shooting the messenger.
     
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  12. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    I just need the fanboys to answer one simple question , what is the percentage of imports by HAL for say MIG 21 engine?

    The answer is going to surprise the hell out of everybody here.
     
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  13. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    Then why did we have so many crashes of of MIG-21 due to lack of reliable spares


    I suppose now you are in a condition you have described.

    Is it the article or the truth that hurts so badly.



    Congratulations. such a long piece in name calling ! you qualify to be a pale journalist. I do not think such a violance was called for.
     
  14. ersakthivel

    ersakthivel Senior Member Senior Member

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    Eventhough there are many forms of TOT in the world,There is no such thing as useful TOT
     
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  15. ersakthivel

    ersakthivel Senior Member Senior Member

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    What is even more pathetic is your belief that there is even a shred of truth in the article. I have no problem with the journo . i can perfectly understand his motivation. But what about the editor who accepts an article when it says HAL has no database of items it produces and that's the reason the delay in Tejas.

    Doesn't the supergenious editor has no knowledge that HAl has nothing to do with ADA. And after getting "throughly satisfied with " the all the russian equipment being produced by HAl under total TOT , the IAf , SA to PM, GOI, MOD and DRDO established ADA in a collective decision to pioneer India's fighter effort along the line of Mirage with consultancy from Dasault and based on american GE engine?


    Where does the not maintaining of database of HAL comes into the delay problem of Tejas?

    And why are you getting worked up when i have issues with the journo and the editor who allow such septic tank trash to seep into the minds of ignorant millions of readers of a major news paper
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2013
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  16. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    You have not answered my question?

    We started with MIG -21 and kept that in service. Similar is the case of transprt aircrafts of AN and IL variety but most of those are on the verge of being grounded due to lack of spares ..

    WHY. ?? What was HAL doing for so many good years..
     
  17. ersakthivel

    ersakthivel Senior Member Senior Member

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    Well you yourself can post the info, i am not going to dispute it.
     
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  18. ersakthivel

    ersakthivel Senior Member Senior Member

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    HAL has done nothing because of it only units like CVRDE,DARE, ADA, and various misssile labs in hyderabad were formed.
    But how does the brits still keep their vintage hawks from falling from skies. the MIgs had poor design of airframe and engines from the begining .It was this tech that was transfered to HAl.

    Mirage too is of the same vintage why is it not killing it's pilots and being paid 40 million per plane with a statement from IAF saying that they are in fine condition and still have 20 years of residual airframe life?

    Why are people not associating Jags which too were made by HAl and whose spares are produced by HAL?They too are slated for upgrade worth a billion dollar stating that they are good enough to serve for another couple of decades.But a hundred mig-23s are grounded forever after a group captain is killed in a crash with the statement from IAf saying that MIg-23s have unresolvable engine issues. Can you explain why these issue cannot be resolved by HAl with the makers of the plane russians giving ideas for it?

    But at the same time with french collabaration HAl is producing DHURV and sellling it successfully in international markets. And developing LCH like rudhra nd so on. After shamed by the pliatus episode HAl has now gotten it's own turboprop trainer pitched against it showing lesser lifecycle costs in record time.

    Even with the fledgling ADA HAL has managed to make 10 or more Tejas mk-1 with stellar safety record . How?

    http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/searc...:00+05:30&max-results=7&start=7&by-date=false

    How?
    How come HAL is accused of shoddy production standards when it comes to russian migs and not for other systems being operated by IAf and IA?

    to this day you cannot count AL-31 on the same tech standard of eurojet and Ge. That's why a firm decision was taken to move away from the russian engine tech and a GTRE was asked to go for a indigenous engine that is fit for the hot climes of India with flat rating..
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2013
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  19. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    Question still not answered
     
  20. ersakthivel

    ersakthivel Senior Member Senior Member

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    look at the above post no-17.I don't want to make double post.
     
  21. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    Why was HAL created ?

    and what has been it doing for so many years ?

    Filling coffers of Parties and Babus if not assembling very large varieties of aircrafts?

    So where is the database and knowldge base?

    Why are AN and IL grounded ?
     

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