ZDK-03 AWACS in Kashgar bounding for Pakistan

[Drsomnath999]

People were rubbishing it existed in the first place. One K-100 will be cheaper than the aircraft. So, don't worry about costs. If the K-100 brings down the ZDK, then the return of investment will be greater than 300 times.

damn correct forget what people say whether it is existent or not .IT is a still closedly gaurded project ,& really costs doesnt matter as if K-100 brings down the ZDK, then the return of investment will be greater than 300 times :thumb:

 

[sayareakd]

Its simple. Every millitary works within a budget. Could the PAF have been able to buy 4 KJ2000 systems for the same money they bought the 4 ZDK-03 systems for? No. Even China only operates 5 KJ2000 systems thus far. It has nothing to do with being a "third world airforce" as you so eloquently put it, just economics. With the ZDK-03 they reallly are a ballanced modern airforce.

i admit saying that PAF is "third world airforce" but this fact has come from your statement, may be i read between the lines and was judgmental in comparing PAF with PLA AF. I thought that you being Chines wont want to call PAF third world airforce as they are not competent to operate your AWAC both in terms of ability and finance. Since they are your friendly country and major importer of your arms. Therefore you have not written it but meant the same, as per tone of your statement, but now you clarify that it in financial terms only.

I'm guessing that the KJ200 must be way too similar to the Erieye and the KJ2000 is just too ambitious for the PAF, being too big and too expensive for their liking, so the ZDK-03 is a good compromise, with back-to-back, rotating, large AESA's, it is said to have a larger detection range than the Erieye, a platform for the Pakistanis to build on in the long term.

may be their is not much difference between PAF and PLA AF, putting a side financial difficulties they can operate your bird, but China being all weather friend thinks at present financial condition, inferior KJ200 is good for them, rather then state of the art chines KJ2000.

BTW be careful, Uncle has got lot of Pakistani in their pocket, if they can ditch OBL sacrificing their national interest then giving your toys only come secondary for them for top $$$.

 

[sayareakd]

&

what is the difference between the two can any knowledgeable chines member point out.

 

[p2prada]

If everything is the same on KJ-200 and ZDK-03, meaning the arrays, power delivered, the computers etc, the ZDK will be a slightly superior platform.

This is because unlike the KJ-200, the ZDK's arrays can work in stationary mode as well as rotating mode. The arrays during stationary mode can power up and focus on a target for tracking. During this time the other array is turned off. The KJ-200 already does that.

The rotating mode can provide scan capability in 360deg. This is the only advantage against KJ-200.

The Dorsal set up on KJ-200 is less stressful on the airframe and is probably less heavy. So, that is the KJ's advantage.

Both designs can be compared to Erieye on Saab-2000. The Erieye is a more mature platform and is still PAF's best eye in the sky. Considering the costs of ZDK is very low, the Erieye may not see more orders for PAF.

 

[Drsomnath999]

The Erieye is a more mature platform and is still PAF's best eye in the sky. Considering the costs of ZDK is very low, the Erieye may not see more orders for PAF.

correct about pricing

 

[J20!]

Both designs can be compared to Erieye on Saab-2000. The Erieye is a more mature platform and is still PAF's best eye in the sky. Considering the costs of ZDK is very low, the Erieye may not see more orders for PAF.

PAFs Erieye AWACS is said to have a detection range of 350km+ in all weather conditions and was tested in hot climate in Spain before it was delivered to PAF, it has fullfilled PAF requiments entirely, originally PAF ordered 6 Erieyes but after evalution of the ZDK-03 the order was cut to just 4, with 4 ZDK-03 being ordered, so really the ZDK-03 must at least be as good as Erieye.

 

[J20!]

what is the difference between the two can any knowledgeable chines member point out.

They don't use the same arrays. As I said previously, they aren't even developed by the same institutes.the ZDK-03 was developed by Hefei not 14th Institute in Nanjing, which developed the KJ2000 and KJ200 systems. One (KJ200) uses an AESA array in a similar configuration to the Erieye, while the other (ZDK-03) uses two arrays in a configuration akin to the E2D, the rest has been said by p2prada.

 

[p2prada]

PAFs Erieye AWACS is said to have a detection range of 350km+ in all weather conditions and was tested in hot climate in Spain before it was delivered to PAF, it has fullfilled PAF requiments entirely, originally PAF ordered 6 Erieyes but after evalution of the ZDK-03 the order was cut to just 4, with 4 ZDK-03 being ordered, so really the ZDK-03 must at least be as good as Erieye.

I cannot comment without knowing anything about the ZDK-03 apart from it's rotodome form.

PAF requirements for Erieye was done before the ZDK or KJ-200 were available. However the F-16 Block 50 is available but they are going for the JF-17. Does that mean the F-16 has suddenly become inferior.

The key is finance. Both JF-17 and ZDK-03 are cheaper than the F-16 Erieye combo. Both are probably on soft loans, which neither US nor Sweden will provide.

The ZDK-03 is in the same class as the Erieye and so is the LRDE radar. Considering the Swedes were pumping out radars when neither India nor China had any radar design capability, the systems maturity on the Erieye will be superior. So, even if they are in the same class, does not mean same level. Look at F-1 races, all cars are in the same class. They are all F-1 cars, but only 2 or 3 are on top while the others are simply participating.

Both the Indian and Chinese systems are a full decade behind the Swedes.

BTW, did some checking and found the platform isn't a Y-9. It is a slightly modified Y-8 version with Pratt and Whitney engines.

 

[sayareakd]

They don't use the same arrays. As I said previously, they aren't even developed by the same institutes.the ZDK-03 was developed by Hefei not 14th Institute in Nanjing, which developed the KJ2000 and KJ200 systems. One (KJ200) uses an AESA array in a similar configuration to the Erieye, while the other (ZDK-03) uses two arrays in a configuration akin to the E2D, the rest has been said by p2prada.

what is the range of the systems ??

 

[sayareakd]

PAFs Erieye AWACS is said to have a detection range of 350km+ in all weather conditions and was tested in hot climate in Spain before it was delivered to PAF, it has fullfilled PAF requiments entirely, originally PAF ordered 6 Erieyes but after evalution of the ZDK-03 the order was cut to just 4, with 4 ZDK-03 being ordered, so really the ZDK-03 must at least be as good as Erieye.

same argument can be given for KJ200 and KJ2000, that KJ 200 is same as KJ2000 therefore order for KJ200 is not given but we all know that KJ2000 is class a part from KJ 200.

 

[tony4562]

I cannot comment without knowing anything about the ZDK-03 apart from it's rotodome form.

PAF requirements for Erieye was done before the ZDK or KJ-200 were available. However the F-16 Block 50 is available but they are going for the JF-17. Does that mean the F-16 has suddenly become inferior.

The key is finance. Both JF-17 and ZDK-03 are cheaper than the F-16 Erieye combo. Both are probably on soft loans, which neither US nor Sweden will provide.

The ZDK-03 is in the same class as the Erieye and so is the LRDE radar. Considering the Swedes were pumping out radars when neither India nor China had any radar design capability, the systems maturity on the Erieye will be superior. So, even if they are in the same class, does not mean same level. Look at F-1 races, all cars are in the same class. They are all F-1 cars, but only 2 or 3 are on top while the others are simply participating.

Both the Indian and Chinese systems are a full decade behind the Swedes.

BTW, did some checking and found the platform isn't a Y-9. It is a slightly modified Y-8 version with Pratt and Whitney engines.

Chinese radars are probably behind their western equivalents, I fully agree. But India does not have a system, not yet at least. PARS on 052C have been in service since 2004, up to 5 KJ-2000 and up to a dozen KJ-200 are also in service. Right now putting China and India in the same sentence is absurd. Even when India manages to develop her so-called indigenous AEW radar (it will take 3-5 years at least, that is kind optimistic), it will stilol be full of imported components.

Indian still refuses to recognize that while China is overtaking US as world's largest manufaturer, India is very much i its infacy as far as industrialization is concerned. India simply does not have the whole range of industries to design, test then manufacture complete systems from end to end.

 

[p2prada]

Chinese radars are probably behind their western equivalents, I fully agree. But India does not have a system, not yet at least. PARS on 052C have been in service since 2004, up to 5 KJ-2000 and up to a dozen KJ-200 are also in service. Right now putting China and India in the same sentence is absurd. Even when India manages to develop her so-called indigenous AEW radar (it will take 3-5 years at least, that is kind optimistic), it will stilol be full of imported components.

We actually had a mechanical rotodome based radar in 1995. Flight tests happened the same time as China's KJ-2000. In 1999 one of the two prototypes crashed and the program had to be stopped temporarily. We had also been trying to make AESA based radars since.

This photo's from 1996.

LRDE, the DRDO department which works on radars is quite successful in radar development. You may have heard of the Israeli Greenpine radar, it is superior to the Phalcon radar. We had quite a few delivered from Israel in early 2000 and have made our own versions since. One of them is called Swordfish. Swordfish has been in operation well before 2004. We are working on larger and more powerful designs as well primarily for our ballistic missile defence program. If you did not know, the Patriot system was denied by India not because we have our own program, but because the Patriot system was deemed inferior to the Indian system.

Nothing on the DRDO AEW&C sensors is imported except for a L band transmitter bought from Israel. It's all homemade.

Indian still refuses to recognize that while China is overtaking US as world's largest manufaturer, India is very much i its infacy as far as industrialization is concerned. India simply does not have the whole range of industries to design, test then manufacture complete systems from end to end.

India recognizes China's industrial prowess. But it has very less to do with the military industrial complex which requires high precision. Things that cannot be built in house can be bought. You can buy from Russia while we can do so from Europe, Israel and now the US.

We do have military industrial capability to design, test and manufacture complete systems from end to end. We build, test and induct ships, aircraft and other systems while being 3-4 times smaller than China in terms of economic GDP. Our space industry is our own as well.

This is something that is present in our civilian industry as well. Just that the scale of our civilian industry is smaller than the one in China. The military, not as much as you think it is.

 

[tony4562]

India had to send kaveri to be tested in Russia, this example just shows that India's approach to indigenous weapon programs is very amateur like, india simply does not have the infrastructure to support such programs. Take a look at the indian and chinese navy, while in terms of surface combatants the two countries are kind equal in strength China has 10 times support ships. The way DRDO works is kind a like hobbists in the western world: they buy off-the-shelf components to build complete systems. Thats' why DHruv, one of the few success stories of DRDO/HAL, has 90% foreign components. Inida to this day still has not figured out how to make a rifle, any rifle. Besides of those that are carbon copies of imported weaopons like Akash or 105mm light howitzer, India has literally nothing to show for her indigenous efforts. Dehli-class destroyers for example,has a mixture of british/russian/israeli systems, remarkablely absent however, are indian systems, there is none.

 

[tony4562]

KJ2000's radar is an AESA and does not rotate. It is couple generations ahead of the one you showed, more importantly it has been in service for years whereas that indian one failed and dissapeared.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

which Indian radar failed?? can you provide link?? 16 indigenous AWACS are planned next few years.

 

[tony4562]

which Indian radar failed?? can you provide link?? 16 indigenous AWACS are planned next few years.

Planned is the keyword, do you have anything that is planned please? Show me a picture of an indian radar, any radar that does not have at least 50% imported components. You can't? There is not a single indian weapon system more complex than a hammer that is truely indigenous. India was planning to launch a GLSV rocket with indigenous upperstage one year after the first successful GLSV launch (with russian cryogenic engine). Now a decade one, India still has not managed to accomplish this, something China did in 1984, 8 years after emerging from the total chaos of cultural revolution.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

where is the link for the failed indian radar that disappeared?? Your credibility is on the line.

 

[tony4562]

China developed something/ similar (rotary system) to the one shown above, back in the 60's. Of course, like India today China wasn't quite ready then, so the project failed.

 

[tony4562]

which Indian radar failed?? can you provide link?? 16 indigenous AWACS are planned next few years.

I was talking about the one posted above, it didn't pan out or did it?

 

[sayareakd]

discussion in this thread is going down the drain thanks to some chines members.