Yusuf's article on Pakistan

happy

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I have just ready the article by @Yusuf on Niti Central. Beautiful piece. Keep on with it.

Please put out another article on Strategic dialog also whenever you find the time.
 
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Ray

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Just 3 questions:
1. How you can keep this disintegration going through peacefully without a civil war?
The answer is simple.

Pakistan has added a new dimension to the concept termed as "hybrid war", by having a vicious, irregular, internecine, sectarian 'war' within its own territory.

2. How you can prevent this civil war from spreading into India?
No problem there.

The psyche of India Muslims is not similar to that of Pakistani Muslims.

3. How you handle the massive refugee group coming to your country?
Why should refugees come?

They made Pakistan by carving it out of India. Two nation theory. Would they return to India and prove once again that they were wrong?
 

Ray

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@Yusuf,

Read the article and Niti Central.

Also gave a comment.
 
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Yusuf

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@Yusuf,

Read the article and Niti Central.

Also gave a comment.
Nice comment Sir. Thanks.

When I wrote that article, I was thinking I will be called a lunatic. Gotten more favorable response than what I thought.
 
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Yusuf

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Here is @Ray 's comment on my piece on Niti for the benefit of members
Yusuf,

An interesting article.

Your connection of the hadith and the Pakistani and Pakistani Army psyche was indeed an eyeopener since it brought sense to the irrational death wish that Pakistan displays by going to war with India repeatedly.

You are right that India should strike at the root of the Pakistani malaise - its psyche invigorated by religious extracts. Indeed Psyops is the answer since wars are but a waste of time and effort causing unproductive loss in men, material, finances et al and causing deeper schism between the two countries which appears an absurdity in an era of globalisation.
 
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Ray

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Nice comment Sir. Thanks.

When I wrote that article, I was thinking I will be called a lunatic. Gotten more favorable response than what I thought.
Never underestimate yourself.

As Davy Crockett said - BE SURE YOU ARE RIGHT, THEN GO AHEAD.





@Yusuf,

The manner in which you are getting comments after comments, it does indicate that you will become a recognised commentator and move to greater heights.

I am sure that many of us here will be also commenting on that article.
 
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Khagesh

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The following comes from a person who has already accepted that he has lost and that the reason for his loss is India.

"We should fire at them and take out a few of their cities—Delhi, Bombay, Calcutta," he said. "They should fire back and take Karachi and Lahore. Kill off a hundred or two hundred million people. They should fire at us and it would all be over. They have acted so badly toward us; they have been so mean. We should teach them a lesson. It would teach all of us a lesson. There is no future here, and we need to start over. So many people think this. Have you been to the villages of Pakistan, the interior? There is nothing but dire poverty and pain. The children have no education; there is nothing to look forward to. Go into the villages, see the poverty. There is no drinking water. Small children without shoes walk miles for a drink of water. I go to the villages and I want to cry. My children have no future. None of the children of Pakistan have a future. We are surrounded by nothing but war and suffering. Millions should die away."
I fail to understand how much more a psyche can be attacked when it has already conceded defeat. You really cannot push a man from a great height to his death, if he is already down in the ditch.

I would let the people around me, forum members and Main Stream and Social Media and GoI deal with it the way they think best.

But personally I would like to go by what has been advised in Gita about the manner of dealing an wavering, unsure, defeated, easily excitable mind - Leave them to their fate. Our problem is that they sponsor terrorism and social engineering in India. Counter that without any expectations of immediate results. Pakistanis imagine that Islam is the core of their existence and India is Kaffir land. So long as this is the case the attacks/subversion will continue. And this has been on for a very long time and may actually last for a very long time. After all they are willing to eat grass to support their enmity with India. We Indians have in the past failed to act in time and properly and I view this in a more karmik manner. Could be there is some new/improved method for destroying our enemy, better than the usual sam, dam, dand, bhed, maya, upeksha & indrajal. These methods are methods of engagement and not of damning rejection. Moreover these are rules of engagement when the other side is in a state where they can be engaged, that is, in the right frame of mind. Pakistan does not seem to be in the right frame of mind. For gods sake about 75% of Pakistanis believe their Muslim identity is more important than their Pakistani identity. This came out in a formal survey. That implies an abandonment of nationalism and the real identity in favor of two thrush in the bush. Pakistan has outwitted Chanakya himself by using the negotiating tactic of holding a gun to their own heads.

I tried to read the article in niticentral but it seems quite vague. A psy-war is usually a disengagement methodology. Like US had no handle on China, Russia and NoKo so they try Psy-war. What are the mechanism that would support such a psy-war? Kaise karen? Kis vidhi rakhe ram.

For example I agree with the following statement of facts:
For quite long, Indian politicians right at the highest level have maintained that a united, stable and secure Pakistan is in India's best interests. It is a myth as a united, stable and secure Pakistan will keep plotting the next war (conventional or unconventional) against India in its quest to keep the ideological battle against India going.
It was wrong because it was never our job to keep Pakistan safe. Esp. if Pakistanis themselves do not want to keep themselves safe. Which I believe even the writer knows when he quotes somebody else while being in agreement:
Christine Fair argues in her book that for the Pakistan Army, defeat does not lie in its failure to win Kashmir despite its numerous unsuccessful attempts; defeat will be the point when it stops trying. Therefore, failed attempts are just "honourable and brave Muslims" fighting against "meek, pusillanimous and treacherous Hindus".

This fact has to be understood by India very clearly that no matter how good intention it has towards Pakistan, it will never be able to stop Pakistan from acting against India's interests. Pakistan will not desist from anti India activities even if it is given Kashmir on a platter by India as it is in an ideological battle with India. Over the years, this ideological battle has got ingrained very deeply in the psyche of the nation. There are many proponent of the "Gazwa-e-Hind" story which is based on an alleged hadith which allegedly predicts a final battle in India and as a result, a conquest of the whole of Indian sub-continent by Muslim warriors. Pakistan Army's lower and younger ranks are getting even more radicalised than its older generation and it readily accepts this "hadith" as their "destiny" to achieve. These younger generations will lead the Pakistani Army very soon.
So when the final conclusion states:
The only way India is going to get peace is to use every means possible to help Pakistani state disintegrate into four separate states of Punjab, Sindh, Balochistan and Pashtunistan busting the Citadel of Islam myth of Pakistan.
It sounds forced and unnatural. Because again it was never our job to see it fail. Our job is to keep us safe. If we have failed to counter their unnatural urges by dividing them once what makes some of us think that more divisions would do any better. All we will in the end get by a division of Pakistan into 4 entities is a pissed out Pakjab and a reasonable shanti/peace with Sindh, Balochistan and Pashtunitan. Not that we should not be sympathetic to the needs of Sindh, Balochistan and Pashtunitan. But with these 3 we need a policy of engagement and with Pakjab we need a policy of disengagement (Gita-leave them to their fate). These can be achieved with or without dividing Pakistan. For example during the recent Indus floods what was the level of cohesion between Pakjab ellites and Pakjab aam abdul. I would guess it was Nil. So there again is available an opening to engage the Pakjab aam abdul too. So the way I see it is that we have to convince almost the whole of Pakistan, gradually off course, that it is the Pakjabi elite that is the real cause of their current state of existence. And I would guess it is not difficult considering the fact they already agree that they are down. We only need to give them a true target. A target which when killed by them will actually deliver them for their internal subjugation by Pakjabis.

But wait they (75% non-pakistani muslim population of pakistan) also believe that they are merely down and not out, especially since they have the vaunted Pakjabi Army, intact. So essentially we have to break the will of the Pakjabi army by getting and making it personal. Which is where we are not working. To simply negate their Islamic existence and basis of Pakistan would be to deprive them of even the one last thing they themselves have chosen. They made that choice, without reference to us, let them live and die with that choice, so long as they live and die, without reference to us. This reference back to us can be defeated simply by outgrowing the rest of the world. Something that is already beginning to happen. Their living and dying should as always remain in their hands (Gita-leave them to their fate).

Trying to subvert the Islamic existence of muslims has forced the west to keep the insane crusades on for the last few centuries presently named WOT. But what has the west gotten. Cheap oil. A tangible gain. Are we hoping to gain something like that from division of Pakistan based on an attack on its inherent islamiyat. The ceaseless attack on Islamic basis of an Islamic society has given some results (debatable results, not concrete sustainable results) to the west. But we are not west and pakistan is not the oil rich gulf.

Our sympathy with Baloch and Sindhis have to be calibrated and without reference to any state of affairs inside Pakistan. We have a historic relationship with these people that goes beyond partition history. These peoples and these lands did not get made on August 14/15, 1947. Those dates were only notional for enabling the celebration of a particular state of affairs that people wished for. A marking of a change in times. But to imagine that we cannot speak to a Baloch or Sindhi as a Baloch or Sindhi would amount to playing into the hands of the Pakjabi army that holds the whole country to ransom along with itself.

I would rather attack:
1) Pakjabi ability to project itself as the soul of Pakistan.
2) Pakjabi army's ability to project itself as the rahnuma-e-pakistan.
3) Wrong understanding of the normal Pakistani, who I acknowledge is muslim, that they are helpless in changing their Pakjabi army and Pakjabi dominance.
4) Wrong understanding of the normal Pakistani, who I acknowledge muslim, that being muslim means remaining against India/Hindus.
5) Wrong understanding of the normal Pakistani, who I acknowledge is muslim, that being muslim precludes them from being Pakistani.
6) Wrong understanding of the normal Pakistani, who I acknowledge is muslim, that being muslim implies that they are the ones who have to mount the cross for the Ummah.
7) Wrong understanding of the normal Pakistani, who I acknowledge is muslim, that being muslim implies that their Pakistani identity as a country is inferior to their Islamic identity.

Then there are a similar lot of things to be worked upon w.r.t. to our own modernists, secularist, minorities, leftists, victimized mentalities. But that would be off topic here.

See we had Khalistanis here in India who had declared themselves as the pure Sikhs. All other Sikhs were to be considered impure. We did not get rid of Khalistanis by attacking their Sikhi or attacking the Sikhi of non-khalistani Sikhs. It is similar, though in another man's land.
 
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anoop_mig25

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@Yusuf


Nice ariticle

Just wnated to ask one qiestion to you and @Ray sir


We all know that is worth not taking to paksitan on terrorism and other issues may be because there are multiple power center or even if its single power center pakistan administration is going to oppose India ....

What i want to ask this thing must have now been noted by defense/strategic/MEA/RAW experts and central gov PM , home ministry and there sectaries...

So why like parrot they keeping vomiting that we need to keep talking with pakistan , ask them to stop corss border terrorism

Inch inch by year by year our policy makers gave what pakistan requires but donot gain anything on return

Are they fools and or they are in some kind of pressure specially from big power to maintain status quo in the region
 
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Ray

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@Yusuf


Nice ariticle

Just wnated to ask one qiestion to you and @Ray sir


We all know that is worth not taking to paksitan on terrorism and other issues may be because there are multiple power center or even if its single power center pakistan administration is going to oppose India ....

What i want to ask this thing must have now been noted by defense/strategic/MEA/RAW experts and central gov PM , home ministry and there sectaries...

So why like parrot they keeping vomiting that we need to keep talking with pakistan , ask them to stop corss border terrorism

Inch inch by year by year our policy makers gave what pakistan requires but donot gain anything on return

Are they fools and or they are in some kind of pressure specially from big power to maintain status quo in the region
Politics.

And international niceties with very little action excepting cosmetic.

Same as mirage of fooling all like ROTI, KAPADA, AUR MAKAN, , CONGRESS KE HATH, AAM ADMI KE SATH. GARIBI HATAO and the Maya Jaal spun by AAP of being transparent and democratic.

Works wonders to the imagination, but actually boils down to nothing.
 
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warrior monk

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The problem of Pakistan I think is historical narrative which to some extent is true though there are evidence to the contrary history bears testimony that during medieval times whenever assailed by a determined opponent medieval northern Indian kingdoms failed . Pakistan claims itself that it is the direct descendent of all the Islamic Invaders that invaded medieval India ( Though India didn't exist then as it is a recent British construct ) , since these rulers ruled over significant parts of Northern India over 550 years which makes them superior to the local Hindu populace ( Completely ignoring India's 6000 year old History ) narrative is being built .
Like the medieval kingdoms of norther India fell to Islamic Invasions though not easily as invasions started in 650 AD invaders could only rule over Delhi from 1193 after Tarain-2 battle .
Pakistan thinks that it was done overnight presenting a faulty history and a narrative is built where the superior Islamic civilization ruled over heathen kuffar Hindu Northern Indian decadent civilization for near 6 centuries not 1000 years as proclaimed by Pakistan .
So the weak inferior Hindu India will fall in front of superior Islamic Pakistan narrative has been built . This is the reason why we see a lot of Pakistani weapons systems having names of Islamic warriors like Ghauri , khalid etc . They actually teach Jihad in Pakistan's military academy and on a conservative estimate over 80 % of Pakistani officer class subscribes to jihad and destruction of India .
Pakistan will never give up on Kashmir or India it will be India's only perpetual enemy , China in future will become India's friend but never Pakistan like ever . It is a sacred duty of all Islamic Ghazi warriors to destroy heathen India , the war must continue for ever .
 

Jatt.Hindustan

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The problem of Pakistan I think is historical narrative which to some extent is true though there are evidence to the contrary history bears testimony that during medieval times whenever assailed by a determined opponent medieval northern Indian kingdoms failed . Pakistan claims itself that it is the direct descendent of all the Islamic Invaders that invaded medieval India ( Though India didn't exist then as it is a recent British construct ) , since these rulers ruled over significant parts of Northern India over 550 years which makes them superior to the local Hindu populace ( Completely ignoring India's 6000 year old History ) narrative is being built .
Like the medieval kingdoms of norther India fell to Islamic Invasions though not easily as invasions started in 650 AD invaders could only rule over Delhi from 1193 after Tarain-2 battle .
Pakistan thinks that it was done overnight presenting a faulty history and a narrative is built where the superior Islamic civilization ruled over heathen kuffar Hindu Northern Indian decadent civilization for near 6 centuries not 1000 years as proclaimed by Pakistan .
So the weak inferior Hindu India will fall in front of superior Islamic Pakistan narrative has been built . This is the reason why we see a lot of Pakistani weapons systems having names of Islamic warriors like Ghauri , khalid etc . They actually teach Jihad in Pakistan's military academy and on a conservative estimate over 80 % of Pakistani officer class subscribes to jihad and destruction of India .
Pakistan will never give up on Kashmir or India it will be India's only perpetual enemy , China in future will become India's friend but never Pakistan like ever . It is a sacred duty of all Islamic Ghazi warriors to destroy heathen India , the war must continue for ever .
Um the only parts of north muslims really controlled were former bhuddist ones like w punjab and bengal.

It is said mughals ruled delhi to agra, Kachewa under Man Singh helped akbar gain vassals but even then muslim rule is a myth for modern north india.

The punjabi muslims were just slaves of foreigners then slaves of Sikhs.
 
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pmaitra

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Great article @Yusuf. Very good conclusion, and I concur, that Pakistan's disintegration is what benefits India. The longer it remains united, the more it will drag India down, or at least attempt to. Moreover, a united Pakistan, which is often under military dictatorship, offers a single window opportunity for foreign powers to keep India in check.
 
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Jatt.Hindustan

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Great article @Yusuf. Very good conclusion, and I concur, that Pakistan's disintegration is what benefits India. The longer it remains united, the more it will drag India down, or at least attempt to. Moreover, a united Pakistan, which is often under military dictatorship, offers a single window opportunity for foreign powers to keep India in check.
I agree, but I also think long term we should look to change the demographics from 99% muslim to 99% hindu/sikh it is only way to be sure.

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾ।।ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਹਿ।।
 
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thakur_ritesh

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It's an article that hits the nail, to the point, and precise! @Yusuf

Just adding to that very nice article with my 2 chavanis.

Pakistan is what it is, our problem of Pakistan is within and not so much Pakistan and the problem is not so much at the level of the government or the strategic planners of the country, it's far deeper, it's a more metal problem the country faces, along with the pulls and pushes from the various interest groups.

I'll start of with what Indians can never shed, and will cling on to come what may. We have been bred on leftist ideology for far too long and are a nation that is scared of calling a spade a spade, we just can't. Even the so called rightists are leftists in their own right, the hardcore nationalists are far and few in between, and for some reason there is this never ending love that oozes in minds of Indians when they come in contact with the Pakistanis, and it's just not a "Punjabi" thing, though an emotion dominated by them, but nothing of the sort I have seen ever happens the other way round. We just can't be ruthless even if it's a matter of national importance.

Closely linked to the above, a cultural problem, acceptance of everything, sab chalet hai, is again deeply rooted, another of the reason why we are okay with everything sub-standard in our lives and mediocrity is a national acceptance norm. Someone can come, slap us hard and we are taught to offer the other cheek and then other till the time other gets tired, but the weak is only misused in world we live in. We have a national hero as Mahatma Gandhi, and our strength has long been propagated as endurance, come what may, we shall abide and take it. Take it we have, and continue to. This gets tagged along with our problem of not being blunt and we get into niceties so that what we say and do does't hurt others. Imagine a US president coming and receiving the Indian PM at the tarmac of the airport, and if that were to happen, the PM would happily give up on Kashmir, just how weak a nation we are mentally.

Historically Indians have not been aggressive enough, I dare use the word timid in most cases, and the only place Indians seem to find a voice is in India, no where else, and that too not constructively. Overseas they tend to huddle away from forcing their point of interests, but back in the country there is only one passion and national pass-time, arguments without any action!

Accept it or not, India is a country compromised, there are various interest groups across the length and the breath of that country that stands compromised, groups who technically run the country. And it's a fallacy that India is run by the government of the day, nothing of the sort happens, if we so believe. There are a few thousand who run the country right from the bureaucracy, to the judiciary, to the politicians from a certain group, to the mighty powerful NGOs, to the media, to the who's who of the business community, and till the government of the day does't have a grip in all of these interest groups, they can only dream of governing this country. Congress which has "ruled" India for as long as one can remember has deep roots across, Pakistan is of interest to these people, and to people who significantly fund these interest groups from within and overseas. You will be surprised how the very wordings a minister writes gets changed even after the letters have been signed and sealed just because so and so did not want it that way.

It's the psyche that is dented, and mind you, the world has got used to see a timid India, a change there and the world won't accept us, so even Narender Modi quickly took to the Americans who till he became the PM were more than eager to kick him on the wrong side, not to forget the business community which has strong ties with the west, who hugely funded Modi wanted him to embrace the US.

Pakistan is too small a problem. Our problem is a psychological problem, precisely what stops us from becoming great, and the way we are, I doubt we ever will, contrast the way we deal with our problems with the way China does, the reason why they are what they are and we are not even able to do even a catching game with them!
 
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Zebra

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At the end somehow, someone has to liberate people of Pakistan from their own army.
 

prohumanity

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After disintegration of Paki in 4 pieces....Balochistani refussees can go to Iran....Punjabi refussees can go to China via Tajikistan....Sindhi refussees can cross to India and Pakhtunwa refussees can move to Afghanistan. problem solved.
 

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