World's fastest rail journey starts operation

[thakur_ritesh]

Got to agree with energon that not every time we need to get into a comparative mode but then one of the few reasons why we jumped to opening up the economy other than the imminent threat of bankruptcy was also the way the prc had zoomed past us by leaps and bounds when at one stage India was doing better than the prc economically, so it is but obvious invariably people will like to make comparisons and as such the comparisons are being made with something better which only envisions the nation to do something as good or may be out do it.

DMRC (the delhi metro) has been a revolution when it comes to implementing projects in the country, not only do they bite more than they can chew but also complete the project a few months before the deadline of completing the project, which shows if the right attitude is there, along with sound government backing, doing projects in time in India is no big deal, and encouraged by that, today they are handling metro projects worth rs80,000crores (17b usd) all over India.

Taking a leaf from the prc’s book we do realize that a decent chunk of our gdp growth would come from by investing in the infrastructure sector, where once the investment in the sector was a mere 4% of gdp has now increased to 8% with the aim of making it increase to 12% by the end of current 5year plan as per montek singh.

Things are bound to happen, the high speed rail network will take shape in times to come but certainly not before another 5(+)years. The economics are in our side, just get a hang of it. If India were to have a real growth rate of 6%, with inflation at around 2%, and appreciation of currency at around 2% (as highlighted by the imf) economy by 2020 at current market rates would be 3.56t usd, similarly if the growth rate would be at 8%, inflation at 2%, and currency appreciation at 2% the economy would be 4.34t usd. Just looking at these figures tells us that spending something like 400-500b usd/year by 2020 on infrastructure sector wont be any big deal, today the same figure hovers around 100b usd.

Numbers are with us, but as I said before, today the priorities are different.

Mattster,

One of the draw backs of such high end technology which cant be used and implemented on large scale is that just the break even has a very long realization timeline which could in some cases pretty well run up to a time line of 100years, and so I thought doing the above calculations was important.

Yes there is no doubt the pricing of the service would be highly subsidized in the prc or else who would use the service, that said both the prc and India are few of the fastest growing air traffics of the world, so the market certainly exists for such high speed trains.

 

[mattster]

Not to get off the track here(no pun intended) - but in a strange way, the rapid development of China especially in infrastructure is making Indians wake up, and ask their leaders why india cant do some of the same things that China is doing.
The people are not willing to accept the same old excuses anymore.

This puts the slow-coach old political leaders of India on the hot-seat, and this is a very good thing. It puts pressure on the political and business leadership to change the way things are done, and show that real progress is achievable.

Basically the constant India-China comparisons, creates competition which makes everyone better !!

 

[bengalraider]

There are quite a few things we must look at when we talk of running high speed trains in india let me outline a few for you

1) Safety- Right now much of the Railway infrastructure in india is outdated, more than 60% of our lines still use railway bridges that are near a century old in such a scenario operating high speed railways is fraught with risk.

2)as nitesh has already pointed out we need to increase the production of 260m rails, the joints in high speed rails are welded together for the most part with only a few fishplates provided .Not only that but high speed trains need special high speed tracks for this the tracks also have to be resistant to thermal expansion and warping effects this has to be taken into consideration considering the temperatures of the typical indian summer.

3)the rail track ballast is also an important factor, most high speed tracks are built on concrete ballast this is done as there may be slippage and churning in regular stone ballast, this technology has been used to some extent in the DMRC(the raised sections) .

4)An Important aspect of high speed railways is curve design, typically high speed railways may have curves averaging between 5000-6000meters in radius for building a high speed railway a lot of land acquired goes to construction of curves, land acquisition for mega government projects being what it is i do not see this with much optimism.

5)The cost factor must be taken into account, a high speed rail network shall require a completely new setup this implies heavy investment, with the prices of tickets being much higher than regular trains i do not see the regular mumbai-pune officegoer or bangalore-chennai commuter taking this train.as mattster has already pointed out subsidies will be needed.


P.S - For the record Indian railway engines have speed governors fitted on them to control achevable speeds, the speeds are controlled to prevent mishaps as we do not have the bridges, tracks or curves to support the speeds the ungoverned engine may achieve.

 

[rockdog]

I would be curious to know from our Chinese members what the fare between the 2 cities in China is, and how it compares to the cost of flying on a low-cost airline between these 2 cities.


BTW: I have to say that the Wuhan Railway station and the high-speed trains look very impressive.

I am living in Wuhan now :goodstuff: And the station is around 10km away from my home.

The common train to Guangzhou is $40 wth 8-10 hours;
Fight is $140, 1:20 hours;
Commercial Class of this express train is $75, Business Class is $110, 3 hours.


After the Express Train in business operation this week, local airlines reduce the flight price to $80-90.

So now it will only take 5 hours to Hong Kong for 1300km. with around $100.

 

[redragon]

[mod]watch what you write, any more attempts of trying to derail the thread and trying to flame bait would land you in trouble.

be careful from next time round!.[/mod]

 

[mattster]

I am living in Wuhan now :goodstuff: And the station is around 10km away from my home.

The common train to Guangzhou is $40 wth 8-10 hours;
Fight is $140, 1:20 hours;
Commercial Class of this express train is $75, Business Class is $110, 3 hours.


After the Express Train in business operation this week, local airlines reduce the flight price to $80-90.

So now it will only take 5 hours to Hong Kong for 1300km. with around $100.

This proves my point. The high-speed rail cost is as much as a flight.
With High-speed rail you can buy a ticket and get inside the train much faster than going to an airport, but its still takes twice the flying time. It is also more comfortable than flying.

So even though it takes longer to go thru the airport security, etc - in the end its the same time.

And I am pretty sure that this high-speed rail price is probably subsidized too.

But there are 2 major advantages of high-speed rail:

1) that it can move a lot more people that flights.

2) Most high speed rail stations are located in the center of big cities whereas with airports they may be up to a 100 miles away from the center of the city.
This may save the business traveller some time.

 

[mattster]

red dragon,

Why has high-speed rail got to do with democracy or communism ??
If you are happy with your system in China, then keep it.

I dont think Indians really care if China becomes a democracy or not, as long as you leave us alone.

Not everything on this forum concerning China, has to be a comparison between Democracy vs. Chinese communism. On this topic, its not even relevant.

 

[badguy2000]

the detectors of Chinese high-speed railway seems too sensitive ....

Errant Chinese smoker stops world's fastest train

BEIJING, Dec 30 (Reuters) - The world's fastest train hit its first speed bump in the form of a disobedient smoker less than a week after it began running in southern China.

A cigarette triggered an alarm that forced a two-and-a-half hour stoppage, nearly as long as the train takes to cover the 1,100 kilometre (684 mile) distance between Guangzhou, capital of Guangdong province, and the central city of Wuhan.

Managers of the bullet train, which debuted on Saturday, were unable to catch the smoker who fled the scene before the alarm sounded, the official Xinhua news agency reported on Wednesday.

"Smoking is strictly forbidden on the Wuhan-Guangzhou high-speed train, even in the toilet," a spokesman with the Guangzhou Railway Group Corporation was quoted as saying. "It could trigger the alarm and even cause equipment failures."

The train was in the Guangzhou rail station when it was delayed and had not yet begun its 350-km-per-hour journey, Xinhua added
[CRH] Total:1068km, Wuhan-Guangzhou(350km/h) is coming [China] - Page 13 - SkyscraperCity

 

[Shredder]

How expensive would it have been to have a Maglev for the same distance?

 

[Energon]

Breaking news: China is similar to the Soviet Union in this regard. Its government excels in a few sectors: infrastructure and industrialization, but that doesn't quite translate into betterment of the society on a macro-scale. Mismanagement of industrial waste continues to have ill effects on vast populations, and the Chinese populace confined to the villages by archaic 'work-permit' based regulations are given a breakneck world of sweatshops and harsh peasantry, little is done to better that section of the society (which by the way is the largest), simply jobs that provide sustainence doesn't cut it, in the direction you highlighted.

Don't mean to derail the thread but...
This is incorrect. China's growth has been pretty well rounded, and this has shown excellent results in their poverty reduction schemes as well as the rise in their overall human development indicators (both of which are ahead of India's- a population based comparison). So far it is clear that China is absolutely nothing like the Soviet Union. Also, it is apparent that China is undergoing an industrial revolution, which is something the soviet union never managed despite its focal industrial prowess.

The costs in terms of environmental damage has of course been profound, but the rest of your conclusions are conjecture at best. China seems to have capitalized fairly well on their labor market and it is undoubtedly helping their lowest common denominator.

What is impressive is that this is the first case of a centralized approach to industrialism to such a mass scale. The Meiji period too saw a centrally planned industrial revolution, but obviously the scale was nowhere near to what China is pulling off. Nonetheless, the successful execution of large projects is a testament to the successful rise of China.