Words of Major General Bhupendra Yadav on INSAS

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by Kunal Biswas, Jul 8, 2014.

  1. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    Putting the Indian Army's desire to import assault rifles in perspective

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    Source : Saurav Jha's Blog : Putting the Indian Army's desire to import assault rifles in perspective
     
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  3. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
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  4. The Fox

    The Fox Regular Member

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    As much as i agree with the above I am a firm believer of privatization of the Indian defence manufacture, not taking the hardwork put by the OFB the output is not enough. For Ex :

    India designed the 105 Indian Field Gun with in the 60's (correct me if i am wrong ) and after the order was completed did they do any followup development NO they simply sat on it and imported Bofors gun in the "1980's" no doubt it worked wonderfully and played a greater role in the Kargill but India could have developed that a gun like Bofors if they had involved private sector . let me explain if they would have let the private companies develop the gun they would have further invested in R&D and developed and improved the 105mm IFG.
    similarly INSAS was with private companies they would have improve it to the latest standard and also India is the only country which doesnot have its own designed pistol they License porduce a ww2 era gun. not just that since i have come from a Public sector background where my Dad is a retired employiee of a Defence PSU and i did my training in that PSU post Engineering i know how the R&D and the production works.

    Conclusion : As-long as the private sector is not involved the Indian Defence Market will be dominated by Foreign companies and we will be worlds largest importer and never be self sufficient in defence production


     
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  5. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    In my view serial production must be given to Private, There are many Pvt.co in India waiting for such an order ..
     
  6. Jagdish58

    Jagdish58 Regular Member

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    But kunalji don't you think we are rich country who always want to bring foreign company from being bank corrupt & make the middle men richer and hungry for more

    Make local company weak

    if business goes to Domestic private & public company what will happen to foreign concern , middle men etc who will take care of them:lol::frusty:
     
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  7. Pulkit

    Pulkit Satyameva Jayate "Truth Alone Triumphs" Senior Member

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    One more great example/way of defaming/downgrading our own INSAS.
    IA wants to take no responsibility . They are the consumersthey are not responsible for it at all...
    They are like a teenage child who once wants something goes to all extent to get that without thinking of any consequences.
    They are no different from IAF there bros.... If they get foreign branded good we also want foreign....

    Read a article Compare performance of Indian-foreign weapon systems: DRDO | idrw.org
    It Holds true here...
    Make a comparison check what can be improved and how much time it will take evalute... By the time this deal will finalise a finished good(Its good but everything needs improvement with time and requirement) can be achieved from INSAS.

    Caution: Get It in writing from IA that they wont change req and they will induct in good numbers they wont delay trials and at top of it they wont be partial...

    Or what can we do it we can make a fraud company (Foreign) and sell the same INSAS rifle to IA I am 100% sure they will love it and have no complaints at all.....
     
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  8. EXPERT

    EXPERT Regular Member

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    I don't see the deal done in near future for multi calibre rifle, the lazy approaches of Army, DRDO, OFB and MOD is making everybody suffer.

    Why not DRDO collaborate with outside firms and gives us a wonderful machine.
    Why not make this like The ongoing Howitzer programmes are going.
    Why not give opportunity to private sector for producing the Riffle rather giving it again to same cock roach.
    Everybody is lazy, and we will suffer. .
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2014
  9. hitesh

    hitesh New Member

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    @all ,I have few questions in mind

    1- If IA looking for replacement of INSAS with Colt,Beretta rifles which are fully Automatic 30 round unlike the semi auto INSAS so does it mean IA is shifting form its earlier strategy of not giving a fully automatic weapon to its infantry for the fear of running out of ammo in middle of fight ? If yes then why they never changed the 20 round semi auto bottleneck in there INSAS first ?

    2- @Kunal jee the modification that is being suggested for INSAS like adding rail ,fore grip ,to me it looks just cosmetic to me the bigger design flaw what looks to me is using AK style thin dust cover & adding the aiming sight over it now every time the cover opened the rifles looses its zeroing ,Ak designers thoughtfully moved the aiming sight forward due to that reason only .

    3- I too agree with the point that giving super expensive imported rifle to an infantry would not be so fruitful then adding good rifle scope over current rifle .
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
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  10. SilentKiller

    SilentKiller Regular Member

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    INSAS 1B1 upgrade looks great, hope army accepts it than foreign rifle.
    i read somewhere that all the entries failed the tests or trials in both cold and hot (desert) terrain and now still they want to test them in muddy one.
    either news is wrong or those who r testing them are still receiving under table money to give their verdict and accept a foreign made rifle.

    time to support indian made and developed goods, totally agree with this view of DRDO, let foreign vendors complete with INSAS..or any indian made military equipment.
     
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  11. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    1. The GSQR prepared for INSAS back in early 90s was in burst also semi auto, Burst is useful as its good for saving ammo and providing adequate suppressive fire, Full auto is something carbine needed as of now the requirement is selected for Multi-cal is fullauto which is also present in DRDO Multi-cal, It also feature 30rnd magazine ..

    2. 1B1`s dust cover is not thin, Its fixed and sturdy and thick, Scopes on it does not move after attaching it, AK dust cover is thinner than 1B1`s ..

    3. 1B1 have great potential for upgrades, This should have been done long back within Indian Pvt firms ..

     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  12. Spindrift

    Spindrift Regular Member

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    The problem here is that IOF has monopoly on small arms... take that away and thing will improve. I am not saying that you let foreign companies in, but instead let the domestic companies do R&D and come up with a product...
    There are already companies that have produced gun parts for companies like IWI, Sarsilarz, SIG and Meprolight.

    The Real Firearm in India - The Firearm Blog
     
  13. Spindrift

    Spindrift Regular Member

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    deleted
    double post
     
  14. Peter

    Peter Senior Member Senior Member

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    India has really shown the world that it can produce world class small arms. The INSAS rifle is not only used in India but is now the standard rifle for Nepal,Bhutan and Oman.
    INSAS rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    :salute:

    Also privatization should be the main target for GOI. A private company is generally more efficient and free from issues of corruption.
     
  15. abhi_the _gr8_maratha

    abhi_the _gr8_maratha Senior Member Senior Member

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    INSAS IS really good rifle. Why none evaluate foreign equipment? Indigenous designs always have many advantages over foreign designs.
     
  16. Peter

    Peter Senior Member Senior Member

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    +1
    This is quite right. I have heard that the foreign arm makers pay millions of dollars to "persuade" our government to buy their arms.(For eg there is a rumor that Sukhoi-30/Tejas is better than Rafale and yet it was neglected) I am not saying that we should not buy foreign arms if they are of good quality. However Indian arms should be properly compared with foreign ones. Indigenization should be India`s no. 1 priority. Also the GOI should look into the underhand money that is being received by the dishonest officials.
     
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  17. pkroyal

    pkroyal Regular Member

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    The guys who head production at IOF have no idea about quality.

    Look at the .32 revolver & pistol being produced by Kanpur & Cossipore, IOF respectively & compare the finish with an original Smith & Wesson or a Webley & Scott.

    The work by IOF is shoddy & crude.

    Without self pride in what we do, IOF will keep producing crude , half finished toys for boys. What we need is an ethos of innovation and some one from the core users to head production in IOF.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2014
  18. hitesh

    hitesh New Member

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    Dude "necessity is mother of all invention" ,a country like India where guns for civilians is still consider taboo & the laws permits possession of weapons only to rich ,influential or mafia people only . When OFB knows very well that they are only shop who could sell the guns in the country then why would they care about quality if they can sell there shit for high cost .
     
  19. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    I was always a supporter of the INSAS.

    It is not that bad a rifle.

    Improvements are always welcomed.

    Bhupinder's contentions are valid, but not totally correct.

    India has many imported stuff and they are not doing badly.

    These things undergo User Trials in all conditions and terrain, They are also Technically evaluated to include the various Lab test of climate, bench use etc

    They also are tested for Maintainability.

    How the BSF inducts its weapons, I am not aware.
     
  20. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    There is no doubt that there is poor finish and low quality control.

    That is because of unionism, where the management can do nothing, as also the management has the sarkari karmachari mindset.

    Jo ho, so ho.
     
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  21. pkroyal

    pkroyal Regular Member

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    So what is your point??
     

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