With Rafale deal in limbo, India may buy American F/A-18 fighter jets

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by WolfPack86, Apr 6, 2016.

  1. WolfPack86

    WolfPack86 Senior Member Senior Member

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    New Delhi: Amid the deadlock in conclusion of India-France deal on acquisition of Rafalefighter jets, New Delhi is reported to be exploring the possibility of buying American F/A-18 "Super Hornet" fighter jets for the Indian Air Force.



    A report in The Times of India said on Wednesday that the jets may be supplied to the IAF under the Make in India programme.

    Notably, US Defence Secretary Ash Carter is due in India as early as from April 10 to 12 to further strengthen the bilateral strategic partnership.

    The report quoted sources as saying that India is looking at the possibility of acquiring the F/A-18 fighters, manufactured by Boeing, as the Rs 60,000 crore deal to acquire 36 Rafale fighters from France's Dassault Aviation remains stuck even a year after it was announced following a meeting between PM Narendra Modi and French President Francois Hollande in Paris.

    The IAF currently has just 33 fighter squadrons and this has forced New Delhi to expand other options, that too on an urgent basis.
    The report said US government officials as well as representatives of Boeing have already made detailed presentations before the Indian establishment on how they plan to set up the American fighter production line in India.

    Lockheed Martin, which manufactures F-16s, has also made presentation before the Indian officials.



    The government, meanwhile, has yet to take a final decision on both the offers, the report quoted sources as saying.

    However, it is likely that India may go in for the twin-engine F/A-18s compared to the single-engine F-16s as the former can also be operated from aircraft carriers, which makes them usable for the Navy as well.
    http://zeenews.india.com/news/india...buy-american-f/a-18-fighter-jets_1873034.html
     
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  3. WolfPack86

    WolfPack86 Senior Member Senior Member

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    India keen on US’s F/A-18 jet offer
    NEW DELHI: The Indian defence establishment is showing "increasing interest" in the American offer to supply F/A-18 "Super Hornet" fighters to IAF under the Make in India programme, even as US defence secretary Ash Carter is all set to come visiting from April 10 to 12 to further crank up the bilateral strategic partnership.
    With IAF down to just 33 fighter squadrons, and the much-touted Rs 60,000 crore acquisition of 36 French Rafale fighters yet to be clinched a year after the Modi-Hollande summit in Paris announced the proposed deal, sources say India is now also actively exploring the possibility of going in for the F/A-18 fighters manufactured by Boeing.

    Ahead of Carter's three-day visit to India, US government representatives as well as Boeing and F-16 manufacturer Lockheed Martin have made "detailed presentations" to the Indian establishment on the suitability of establishing an American fighter production line in India. "Both the offers (Boeing and Lockheed Martin) are attractive for the Make in India strategy. No final decision has been taken," said a source.

    But India may well pitch for the twin-engine F/A-18s over the single-engine F-16s. For one, Boeing is offering "a new-generation production line" to be set up in India. For another, the Navy could also consider the F/A-18s in the years ahead since the multi-role fighters are capable of operating from aircraft carriers

    India, of course, remains upset with the Obama administration's recent move to sell another eight F-16s to Pakistan for $699 million on the specious ground of counter-terrorism, which will now also be followed by nine AH-1Z Viper attack helicopters for $170 million. Overall, Pakistan will now have 84-85 F-16s primarily directed at India.
    [​IMG]
    The move to get a second fighter production line, in addition to Tejas light combat aircraft project, ties up with defence minister Manohar Parrikar recent remark that "a fighter project" was in the "zone of consideration" under the Make in India policy.
    This is considered critical since the 36 Rafales — if and when they come — will not be enough to plug IAF's rapidly-dwindling fighter numbers. Both the F/A-18s and F-16s were part of the hotly-contested race for India's original $20 billion MMRCA (medium multi-role combat aircraft) project to acquire 126 fighters. Though Rafale was selected over its five rivals, the entire MMRCA project was scrapped early last year. India had then decided to directly buy only 36 Rafales.




    Besides, Carter will also push again for India to ink three bilateral "foundational agreements": the logistics support agreement, the communication interoperability and security memorandum agreement and the basic exchange and cooperation agreement for geo-spatial cooperation.

     
  4. akk

    akk Regular Member

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    If not ideal, perhaps the best possible option. Common engine platform and naval roles are good feature.
    DM should carefully negotiate with GE for engine tech and suitable latest specs for futureproofing. The contract should have safeguards against sanctions
     
  5. Tactical Frog

    Tactical Frog Regular Member

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    Man, after Obama' s last comments about Indian nuclear arsenal, I hope Modi & Parrikar slap Ashley Carter in the face with giving the green light for "make in India Rafale" the day he lands.
     
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  6. akk

    akk Regular Member

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    You are assuming here that Dassault is keen on Make in India and we don't want it. Contract with them has gone nowhere in last several years and is still practically nowhere. It will be a reasonable assumption that it will go nowhere in the foreseeable future. With this assumption, I say that F-18 is a reasonable option, provided adequate safeguards are in place. Remember we are going to get GE engines for LCA and AMCA (probably) anyway so a significant part of F-18 will be indigenised. Unless....you want 2 separate engine lines as well.
    You cannot force Rafale to be made in India....if they don't want it or is prohibitively expensive.
     
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  7. Superdefender

    Superdefender Regular Member

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    It is very interesting & surprising that none of the European nations is even try to sell Eurofighter. I believe Typhoon can beat Rafale in almost all parameters even if both are somehow similar.
     
  8. Bornubus

    Bornubus Senior Member Senior Member

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    It will Ruin IAF.How can IAF operate so many different types of twin engine jet.No country does that.

    On top of it , US is a backstabbing bitch.
     
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  9. kr9

    kr9 Regular Member

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    The Hornet deal is a crutch at best.
    Below are 2 links from a website that compares some 10 fighter aircraft:--

    1) http://www.aviatia.net/gripen-vs-f-18/
    2) http://www.aviatia.net/gripen-vs-mig-35/

    Comparing these, I think that Mig-35 is a good option for IAF that can be a force multiplier and not just a face saving crutch. Also, IN will operate Mig-29 UB/kUB from its carriers (not yet, for some reason) and that will give us a chance to upgrade them with the Zhuk AE AESA radars.
    Only we need to convince the Russians for full Tot and full integration with 'Make in India'. And it seems they are ready to do so.

    The hornets can only give us the engine technology for Tejas and that too is a big 'IF' keeping in mind the US sanctions aimed so benevolently at India. Even the F-16 is better but lacks naval component.

    The Rafale is good, if we can get it without compromising on Technology or 'Make in India'.

    Trivia: for those who want it--

    And for people who want more MKIs to plug the medium fighter gap, I think it should be used as a heavy deep strike fighter and not for medium roles. As it happens, the Mig-29 was a competitor to the Su-27 for the heavy role, but the Russians felt the need for a medium fighter as well. And the Mig-29 was reduced in size and has been performing wonderfully.

    The Migs would secure the enemy airspace to a certain range and provide cover for the Sukhois as they move to strike deeper. So the Sukhois would not expend their munitions till it was needed. Once in its own space, the Sukhois could then dominate in the air and as a low intensity ground attack aircraft. Tupolevs (Jaguars for the IAF) would conduct their missions within this cover. So maybe we should not use the MKI for what it was not intended as.

    Interesting documentaries from Youtube: Again for those who want it--





    Also check out the Youtube series 'Wings of the Red Star' for episodes on Russian combat aircraft.
     
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  10. Tactical Frog

    Tactical Frog Regular Member

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    I suspect that at this stage even David Cameron realises that Typhoon stands no chance against the return of Boeing in the game. Rafale at least is the IAF favourite.

    Also, MBDA would rather see Rafale win with Meteor than Americans win without Meteor ...
     
  11. Dark Soul

    Dark Soul Tihar Jail Banned

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    @abingdonboy if this news is true thsn

    may god help us...
     
  12. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    US is a bitch. No point giving them $ over it!!
     
  13. garg_bharat

    garg_bharat Senior Member Senior Member

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    There are some advantages with USA:

    1. We need better relations with USA due to our dependence on their market for services.
    2. Us companies have very good understanding of how to operate in india
    3. Americans are efficient and quick
    4. It will help establish production of ge engines in india.

    Disadvantages:

    1. We will have to sign the agreements which will face domestic political opposition
    2. Americans may not allow integration of non american weapons
    3. There may be no significant transfer of technology
     
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  14. Bornubus

    Bornubus Senior Member Senior Member

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    Good points but does Mig 35 comes with Spectra ?

    If not then IAF is doomed.
     
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  15. Bornubus

    Bornubus Senior Member Senior Member

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    Your Disadvantages Clearly have an edge over advantages.
     
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  16. Bahamut

    Bahamut Senior Member Senior Member

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    Just but Mig 35 already ,no complicated negotiation and cheap and full ToT .
     
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  17. kr9

    kr9 Regular Member

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    No :frown:
    The Rafale has that advantage. But:---

    1) the Mig has it own upgraded electronic warfare suite with Optical Location Systems (OLS) for stealthy and stealth target detection (90 kms) and its own missile detectors / RWR. Also, it seems the OLS has a non laser optical mode, so I don't think it would show up on a Rafale's SPECTRE.

    2) I think the IAF has got a pretty awesome suite for Tejas; or at least they were planning to (in 2013). And like our MKIs and Mig-29s, we can always integrate that or the ELTA / MILDS-F into the Mig-35. The Russians are not as rigid like the Americans regarding modifications. Granted it is not SPECTRE, but it is good.

    PS:I was, unfortunately, less aware regarding EW suites specifications.
    But thanks to you, I read about the SPECTRE. :smile:
    I cannot see the IAF get it from any country other than France. Or maybe deal with MBDA / Thales directly.
     
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  18. Bahamut

    Bahamut Senior Member Senior Member

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    It does a sensor fusion but at at the level of spectra ,but a spectra like system can be installed with co operation with France as Mig 35 is open source.
     
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  19. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    I am happy actually that french are screwing India. We need a kick in our ass to make Tejas a worthy bird.
     
  20. Bahamut

    Bahamut Senior Member Senior Member

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    Get rid of all forign supplier ,one by one.but first increase the efficiency of HAL ,man they are slower then turtle.
     
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  21. Bornubus

    Bornubus Senior Member Senior Member

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    Not just HAL we can't even make an Assault Rifle in 10 years.

    How many years MCIWS under testing ?
     
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