Will Washington Forment War Between China And India?

civfanatic

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But the bigger point is this - While Castro's Cuba may have been a model of socialism in the seventies and eighties - that model was built of massive Soviet aid. Their vaunted nationalized health-care system(which is good) was funded by soviet aid. The US embargo certainly hurts Cuba but even if the US embargo was not there - investors from the US and Canada would not have been rushing into Castro's Cuba. Neither are the Europeans or Japanese or their Chinese.
The amount of Soviet aid given to Cuba was comparable to the amount of U.S. aid given to various other Latin American countries.

Soviet aid itself did not run spur Cuba's economic growth.


If you compare Cuba to Costa Rica - you will see 2 different systems and what Costa Rica has done for its people versus Cuba. Costa Rica did not get an significant US aid despite being an ally. They dont need it. They have done quite well by themselves.
Cuba compares favourably with Costa Rica by any social or economic index. Cuba has a higher HDI, a similar GDP per capita, and a much more equitable distribution of income.

The main reason for Costa Rica's economic growth in recent decades is its tourism industry (largest in Latin America). Cuba began pursuing tourism only in the past few years, but it seems to be the most promising future industry for the country.


Cubans may claim that they stood up to Uncle Sam and yes they did. But most Cubans are struggling to get by. What good is that boast - when you are saddled with a bankrupt ideology and you are struggling to exist ?

I know you dont agree with me, and thats fine. But for me, realities on the ground trump ideology.
The ground reality is that Cuba is doing better than probably any other Latin American country. They have shown that socioeconomic growth is not linear, and can follow different paths. They have shown that a country does not need to be a puppet or ally of the U.S. to accomplish great things for its people. There is a reason why Cuba continues to be an inspiration for so many people in Latin America, and even around the world. Whether or not you want to admit that is up to you, I could care less.


BTW: I am proud to be an American of Malayalee origin. There is no pretending. This is one of the few places on the planet where you will be accepted for what you are. Not who you are or who your father is or who your parents know.
After having been raised in Malaysia - you will never catch me apologizing for being an American, even if I dont support everything the US does.


I love you accuse other people of romanticizing leftist regimes, and here you are romanticizing America, lol.
 
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mattster

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Cuba is doing better than any other country in Latin America because "everyone is equally broke" ?? Is that what this whole discussion comes down to ??

So country in which there is no income disparity like capitalist societies and the wealth of the nation, or to be more precise the "lack of wealth" is equally distributed among the population is heaven - as long as everyone gets enough to eat, a small roof over their heads, and free health care ??

A country where a doctor or an engineer makes a few pesos more than a bus-driver ?

Well hey.....if that is your definition of "better than other Latin American countries", then you are absolutely 100% right.
I agree, there is probably no nation on this planet that can compete with Cuba when it comes to evenly distributed income statistics!!

Civ.....so what are you doing in good ol India which has one of the worst income disparities on the planet ??

Ambani is building the worlds most expensive 27 story USD $1 billion dollar mansion surrounded by tin-roofed slums in heart of Mumbai. You better get on the next plane to Havana, buddy !
 

mattster

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The reason India or china or indonesia is not high on the list is because in a lot of developing countries that are very highly corrupt the super rich who make their money illegally either hide it offshore or do not report it. The data that you see is based on reported taxable income. In developed countries the illegal or black or corrupt money is a small fraction of the total reported taxable revenue.

Look at where Indonesia is on the graph. Having lived half my life in South east Asia, I can safely
tell you that probably more than 50 % of the entire wealth of the country is in the hands of about 20 families connected to the ruling families and a handful of indonesian Chinese tycoons. The rest of the 150 million probably about. 120 million are dirt poor. But you would never know looking at the graph.....you would think that the US has worse income distribution than Indonesia which is a real joke.

The problem with developing countries that are wracked with massive corruption at all levels is that the stats are never what they seem.

Having said that, the US does have increasing income disparity as a result of the big loss of high wage blue collar manufacturing jobs. The days when blue-collars guys without a college education were making $20 to $30 bucks an hour are long gone. This change has forced many solidly middle-class Americans into the lower middle class.
 
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asianobserve

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Closing the income disparity has not been the forte of the US. Its almost purist libertarian approach to individualism means that you're free to achieve the most in your lifetime and you're also free to be the laziest at the same time.
 

AOE

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Indeed, and the libertarian argument of personal responsibility is an underrated one in a world where people scream for dependency on a nanny state. Anti-capitalists always point out the inequality within free markets and other capitalist systems, yet what better alternative do they offer? Nothing. Communist states that tried to build themslves off the ideas of socialism and Marxist ideas ended up failing and being the embodiment of every value they claimed to be fighting against; imperialism, colonialism, hereditary power, inequality, etc...

For those who think socialism can create a more economically equal or beneficial society; you need to watch this:
 
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asianobserve

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Indeed, and the libertarian argument of personal responsibility is an underrated one in a world where people scream for dependency on a nanny state. Anti-capitalists always point out the inequality within free markets and other capitalist systems, yet what better alternative do they offer? Nothing. Communist states that tried to build themslves off the ideas of socialism and Marxist ideas ended up failing and being the embodiment of every value they claimed to be fighting against; imperialism, colonialism, hereditary power, inequality, etc...
Although I'm not sold out to the extreme version of libertarianism being championed by the American Tea Party. As the recent events in the world economy suggests we cannot expect the private sector alone to police themselves. It's not going to happen. A balance must be arrived between the need to instill personal responsibility and a healthy dose of personal drive, and regulations.
 

AOE

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Although I'm not sold out to the extreme version of libertarianism being championed by the American Tea Party. As the recent events in the world economy suggests we cannot expect the private sector alone to police themselves. It's not going to happen. A balance must be arrived between the need to instill personal responsibility and a healthy dose of personal drive, and regulations.
I understand where you are coming from, but libertarianism predates the Tea Party movement, and free market capitalism is compatible with liberal and conservative democratic views. Even Friedman who championed this form of capitalism has said that there are necessary regulations and controls to be placed on free trade.
 

civfanatic

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Cuba is doing better than any other country in Latin America because "everyone is equally broke" ?? Is that what this whole discussion comes down to ??
With a per capita income of $10,000 Cuba is considered a middle income economy. This per capita income is higher than most other Latin American countries to begin with, and the high degree of equality in income distribution means this holds even more true. For example, Chile's per capita income at $15,000 is higher than Cuba's, but the extremely high inequality means that the average Chilean doesn't live much better than the average Cuban, and Chile's lower classes live far below Cuba's average standard of living.

Please refrain from making statements like "everyone in Cuba is broke" which only highlight your stupidity even more.


So country in which there is no income disparity like capitalist societies and the wealth of the nation, or to be more precise the "lack of wealth" is equally distributed among the population is heaven - as long as everyone gets enough to eat, a small roof over their heads, and free health care ??
Over the years, there have been some people (almost exclusively Americans) who have criticized Cuba for the absence of certain human rights, such as the absence of a completely free press and democratic, multiparty elections.

The Cuban response to this is that their country guarantees the most basic rights that every human deserves, such as free public education and free universal healthcare. There are plenty of Americans who still do not have healthcare, despite living in a "first world country". And judging by your posts, the American public education system hasn't done you much good either.


A country where a doctor or an engineer makes a few pesos more than a bus-driver ?
In Cuba, the salary system does not work the same way as in America. The salary that people are given (if they are government employees) is considered discretionary income, because necessities like food, shelter, and clothing are given free to government employees. This discretionary income salary does in fact change according to occupation, despite common misconceptions caused by failures in the American public education system.

Of course, there are also those 20% of Cuban workers who work in the private sector, and whose salaries are similar to the Western model.


Civ.....so what are you doing in good ol India which has one of the worst income disparities on the planet ??

Ambani is building the worlds most expensive 27 story USD $1 billion dollar mansion surrounded by tin-roofed slums in heart of Mumbai. You better get on the next plane to Havana, buddy !
What's really ironic about this entire "discussion", is that I am currently neither in Hindustan nor Havana, but in the good ol United States of America.

You cannot imagine how much I laughed from your romantic depictions of American life, and how you are "proud to be an American". I sincerely thank you for providing me with much-needed humour.
 
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mattster

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Pardon me, but you are laughing at me ?? You are a total clown, dude.....you are here in the US, making your living here or doing whatever, and you cant stand being here despite the fact that you are here - WTF

I grew up in Malaysia under a crap system where I was reminded that I did not belong there every day. The first chance I got left the country, and never looked back. I even renounced my Malaysian citizenship happily the moment I accepted US citizenship. At least I had the guts to follow my convictions. Unlike you, I didnt stay there in "Good ol Malaysia" and earn my living there, and talk crap about the place. I got the hell out.

Jokers like you live in West, make your living here, and talk shit about the country your living in.
I see guys like you all the time. You are a just shameless clown with no self-respect.

So why arent you making your living in great socialist paradise of Fidel's Cuba ?? If capitalism is so revolting to you or socialism is so appealing...then WTF are you doing here ??

Why is it that every year literally thousands of Indians especially those guys from IITs are lining up outside US consulate to come to this country with the worst public education in the world. The public education is so bad, that the US has the largest number of universities and the best ones in the world. Maybe they are filling the seats in these universities with aliens from another planet .....huh ?? Why dont you go back to your world's greatest public education in Cuba or India ?

And Cuba has a per capita income of $10,000. You must have pulled that out of your ass !!


BTW: Discretionary spending - What a concept ! The state gives you food, shelter and health-care and your salary is basically "pocket money". Are we talking about humans here, or are we raising pigs in a pig-farm ?
What an amazing system - its so amazing that even the Russians, Chinese, Vietnam, Eastern Europeans, have all flushed it down the toilet bowl. Only the North Koreans, Zimbabwe, Myanmar, and Cuba retain this amazing system !! What a stellar group of nations.

You must seriously consider a career in comedy......you are a very funny dude
 
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utubekhiladi

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i think, the topic of this thread is quite wrong. the correct topic should be

"Will China and India go for all out war if Washington formats war between them..."

ofcourse, anyone can format war between India and china for their own advantages. but it is upto India and china to decide weather they really want to fight each other, or peacefully solve issues by thinking over a cup of coffee.
 

Tianshan

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ofcourse, anyone can format war between India and china for their own advantages. but it is upto India and china to decide weather they really want to fight each other, or peacefully solve issues by thinking over a cup of coffee.
it takes two hand to clap, but only one hand to make a fist.

best to be cautious.
 

asianobserve

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Pardon me, but you are laughing at me ?? You are a total clown, dude.....you are here in the US, making your living here or doing whatever, and you cant stand being here despite the fact that you are here - WTF

I grew up in Malaysia under a crap system where I was reminded that I did not belong there every day. The first chance I got left the country, and never looked back. I even renounced my Malaysian citizenship happily the moment I accepted US citizenship. At least I had the guts to follow my convictions. Unlike you, I didnt stay there in "Good ol Malaysia" and earn my living there, and talk crap about the place. I got the hell out.

Jokers like you live in West, make your living here, and talk shit about the country your living in.
I see guys like you all the time. You are a just shameless clown with no self-respect.

So why arent you making your living in great socialist paradise of Fidel's Cuba ?? If capitalism is so revolting to you or socialism is so appealing...then WTF are you doing here ??

Why is it that every year literally thousands of Indians especially those guys from IITs are lining up outside US consulate to come to this country with the worst public education in the world. The public education is so bad, that the US has the largest number of universities and the best ones in the world. Maybe they are filling the seats in these universities with aliens from another planet .....huh ?? Why dont you go back to your world's greatest public education in Cuba or India ?

And Cuba has a per capita income of $10,000. You must have pulled that out of your ass !!


BTW: Discretionary spending - What a concept ! The state gives you food, shelter and health-care and your salary is basically "pocket money". Are we talking about humans here, or are we raising pigs in a pig-farm ?
What an amazing system - its so amazing that even the Russians, Chinese, Vietnam, Eastern Europeans, have all flushed it down the toilet bowl. Only the North Koreans, Zimbabwe, Myanmar, and Cuba retain this amazing system !! What a stellar group of nations.

You must seriously consider a career in comedy......you are a very funny dude
LOL! Pls calm down. Civfanatic is simply dusting his sense of humor, leftist-Indian style.
 

mattster

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LOL! Pls calm down. Civfanatic is simply dusting his sense of humor, leftist-Indian style.
Dusting his sense of humor ?? .....yeah definitely....if you think retarded is funny....this guy is really funny.
 

civfanatic

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Pardon me, but you are laughing at me ?? You are a total clown, dude.....you are here in the US, making your living here or doing whatever, and you cant stand being here despite the fact that you are here - WTF

I grew up in Malaysia under a crap system where I was reminded that I did not belong there every day. The first chance I got left the country, and never looked back. I even renounced my Malaysian citizenship happily the moment I accepted US citizenship. At least I had the guts to follow my convictions. Unlike you, I didnt stay there in "Good ol Malaysia" and earn my living there, and talk crap about the place. I got the hell out.

Jokers like you live in West, make your living here, and talk shit about the country your living in.
I see guys like you all the time. You are a just shameless clown with no self-respect.
LMAO. Calm down guy, I'm not working here! I came as an international student to study medicine. As soon as I finish my residency and pay off my debts I am going back to Hindustan. The 150K salary that physicians get in America doesn't mean anything to me; I didn't come here for the money.

See guy, even though I am living in America, I still have Indian citizenship, and I have never defined myself as anything besides "Indian". Unlike you, I am not pretending to be something that I am not.

btw I get along fine with most Americans. But the government policy pisses the hell out of me, and I know too many Americans to think that the government's actions abroad are in line with public opinion.


Why is it that every year literally thousands of Indians especially those guys from IITs are lining up outside US consulate to come to this country with the worst public education in the world. The public education is so bad, that the US has the largest number of universities and the best ones in the world. Maybe they are filling the seats in these universities with aliens from another planet .....huh ?? Why dont you go back to your world's greatest public education in Cuba or India ?
Guy, America's primary education system is shit. But it has some of the best higher education schools in the world, which is why I am here. It's a very elitist sytem, but that's how the world is.

And I went to university in India too.


And Cuba has a per capita income of $10,000. You must have pulled that out of your ass !!
LOL

Cuba GDP - per capita (PPP) - Economy


BTW: Discretionary spending - What a concept ! The state gives you food, shelter and health-care and your salary is basically "pocket money". Are we talking about humans here, or are we raising pigs in a pig-farm ?
What an amazing system - its so amazing that even the Russians, Chinese, Vietnam, Eastern Europeans, have all flushed it down the toilet bowl. Only the North Koreans, Zimbabwe, Myanmar, and Cuba retain this amazing system !! What a stellar group of nations.
I have never been to North Korea, Zimbabwe, or Myanmar so I don't know anything about their system of wages. As far as I know they are all failed states which should not be compared to Cuba.

But there are many Russians who miss the U.S.S.R. One Russian friend of mine told me several years ago, "Back then, we had enough money to buy anything, but there wasn't much to choose from. Today, we can buy anything, but we don't have the money to buy."


P.S. It seems I have hurt your feelings. I apologize.
 
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asianobserve

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LMAO. Calm down guy, I'm not working here! I came as an international student to study medicine. As soon as I finish my residency and pay off my debts I am going back to Hindustan. The 150K salary that physicians get in America doesn't mean anything to me; I didn't come here for the money.

See guy, even though I am living in America, I still have Indian citizenship, and I have never defined myself as anything besides "Indian". Unlike you, I am not pretending to be something that I am not.

btw I get along fine with most Americans. But the government policy pisses the hell out of me, and I know too many Americans to think that the government's actions abroad are in line with public opinion.




Guy, America's primary education system is shit. But it has some of the best higher education schools in the world, which is why I am here. It's a very elitist sytem, but that's how the world is.

And I went to university in India too.




LOL

Cuba GDP - per capita (PPP) - Economy




I have never been to North Korea, Zimbabwe, or Myanmar so I don't know anything about their system of wages. As far as I know they are all failed states which should not be compared to Cuba.

But there are many Russians who miss the U.S.S.R. One Russian friend of mine told me several years ago, "Back then, we had enough money to buy anything, but there wasn't much to choose from. Today, we can buy anything, but we don't have the money to buy."


P.S. It seems I have hurt your feelings. I apologize.

Your posts are expected from leftists such as you. But more to the point of mattster you're still coming out a "HYPOCRITE" with your silly comments. There you are in the US enjoying the previliges of staying and studying in America and all the time you're bad mouthing your host despite its accomodations to you. I understand you will pay all your expenses there but still your study there is a privilege not readily available to billions of people around the World. Yes, the US is not perfect, there's no doubt about it (who is in the context of your romanticised Fidel's society?), but you havn't actually said anything good about it except to praise its higher education. If that's the case then why do you continue to suffer studying in a country that is SO UNJUST and UNFAIR according to you when you can get a BETTER education from Cuba? You said it yourself that Cuba has the World's best medical system. It should also have the World's best medical education... What do you think?
 

mattster

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You dont have to apologize . You cant help yourself. Your a just a pathetic numnut.

You come all the way here to go to Med school because the public education is shit. Well if the public education is shit, then the US would be a 3rd world country. The public education varies depending on where you go to high school......but a dodo like you wouldnt know that.

Do you know how many guys I have met like you in the 25 years I have lived here.
Guys who come here to study and work and make a living and bitch every chance they get about what a fucked country it is and how decadent Western culture is, how money driven it is, and how their own countries are greatest thing since sliced bread.

Almost always, they are either from the Middle-East or India.
And when you ask them what they are doing here....they tuck their tail between their legs and run for their lives.


PS: you must enjoy making a fool out of yourself in public forums.....God bless your patients, they are going to need it.
 
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Tianshan

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But more to the point of mattster you're still coming out a "HYPOCRITE" with your silly comments. There you are in the US enjoying the previliges of staying and studying in America and all the time you're bad mouthing your host despite its accomodations to you. I understand you will pay all your expenses there but still your study there is a privilege not readily available to billions of people around the World. Yes, the US is not perfect, there's no doubt about it (who is in the context of your romanticised Fidel's society?), but you havn't actually said anything good about it except to praise its higher education.
civfanatic is an Indian citizen, he has no obligation at all to say anything nice about america.

in fact, i am sure that american citizen themself have no obligation to say nice things about america either.
 

asianobserve

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civfanatic is an Indian citizen, he has no obligation at all to say anything nice about america.

in fact, i am sure that american citizen themself have no obligation to say nice things about america either.
I didn't say he has obligation to praise his host. I said he is a HYPROCRITE. If the US is as bad or rotten as what he always claims it to be then why does he continue to stay in that wretched place...?
 

asianobserve

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Why did he go there in the first place? Was he kidnapped in India and brought to the US by some crazy CIA operatives? Why did he end up in the US if he hates that country's government and foreign policy so much? Doesn't he know that by staying there in the US and directly or indirectly paying US taxes he is helping America oppress the World? Cuba is beconing like a jewel in the middle of the Carribean...

Seriously, this is the problem with most US haters. They proclaim that they don't like it but deep down in the inner recesses of their emotions they like it. What's not to like with the US? It's a free country where you can literally chase your dreams.
 
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