Will the next Army chief be appointed by quotas?

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by bhramos, Jan 17, 2012.

  1. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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    A recent letter, boldly written by a serving lieutenant colonel to the army chief, General V K Singh says: "PROFESSIONAL DISCRIMINATION is upgrading (sic) into SOCIAL DISCRIMINATION. The formidable INDIAN ARMY is developing cracks. What the enemy would have loved to foster, is happening on its own."

    Says a senior officer of the mechanised forces who was recently promoted, but sees equally competent compatriots being overtaken by lesser officers: "The Indian army has been effectively Mandalised. The traditional meritocracy of senior rank has given way to a shoddy system of quotas that is placing unconfident and incompetent officers to command troops in battle."

    People sometimes wonder what drives soldiers in the face of death. The answer, surprisingly, is not patriotism, religion, discipline, bloodlust, or a quest for glory. Instead, most soldiers affirm that a shared brotherhood with their comrades is what drives them through mortal danger.

    The ones who die do so in the belief that death is better than besmirching the legacy of their unit or sub-unit. "Soldiers live and die for the name of their unit alone," says Brigadier Virendar Singh who led the assault on the 21,000-feet-high Bana Post above the Siachen Glacier in 1987, one of India's most stirring military exploits.

    Will the next Army chief be appointed by quotas? - Rediff.com News
     
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  3. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    As a non-Indian I had to do a little research.

    Mandal Commission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  4. arya

    arya Senior Member Senior Member

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    my god what you will do if under operation you know that the doctor is just because or quotas

    well why not if every thing is given to our leaders then they can sell every single Indian

    yes they can
     
  5. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    Ray sir can confirm this I think,

    Army chiefs from infantry have already gotten a higher preference due to Gen Malik's policy change ?
     
  6. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    What is mandalisation ? Can any one ask the author of that crap piece?
     
  7. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    What will the country do if in a war like in 1962, when an officer of supply called Gen Kaul was given command of Tezpur Corps by Nehru that saw the complete debacle ?? Surgical operation by meritorious??
     
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  8. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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  9. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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  10. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    The reference is to the Mandal Commission. It must have resulted in something like affirmative action in the US.

    Affirmative action - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
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  11. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    This part is true and a bone of contention

    It started with Gen Rodrigues, to include the Staff and Command division.

    How far is this correct I cannot say:

    I think AK Chaudhury of my Regt is the DGMO and Gen Nehra of Madras Regt was supposed to have taken over as AG.

    Nobody wants to join the Infantry since it is a hard slog and every alternate tenure (every two years back to the field after a peace tenure where one gets family accommodation after a wait of one year) an infantry officer has to be up in the front or CI. To see that people join infantry (the cutting edge of the army), after much debate, this was done. Other Arms and Services don't go through every two years facing possible death or family disturbances and dislocation.

    It has the largest number of officers. If the tenure is made longer, promotions will be slow and many will get wasted out as Lt Col and there will be discontent and none would like to join infantry.

    One can recall Lt Gen BM Kaul (ASC)'s contribution as a Commanding General.

    What one should not forget it is the environment that hones the combat leadership skills. Combat leadership is not merely theoretical, much of it is learnt from the experience gathered in the environment. A person from the Services who has dealing with rations or blanket issue or repairing vehicle would hardly be the ideal to lead troops in battle.

    I fail to understand the officers grouse. While Armoured Corps, Artillery, Engineer officers can command Infantry Brigades, Infantry officers are not allowed to command Armoured Formations, Artillery Formation or Engineer formations. (Formation is Brigade and above). Now, would that not be discrimination too?

    The reason is simple, Infantry officers cannot command non Infantry formations because they are not conversant in detail the environment that galvanises such non Infantry formations. Even though, at formation level, it does not matter!

    That is for the sake of talking.

    Most from IMA volunteer for the Mechanised Infantry and the Armoured Corps since it has the prestige of being in a Combat Arm as also it ensures that the travails and tribulation of the Infantry is avoided like High Altitude, or even walking endless with a heavy load on the back in long exercises!

    Ask Admiral Bhagawat!

    Speaks for itself!
     
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  12. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    And we all know Ajai Shukla!

    The one who condemned Arjun and then backflipped and found it a 22nd Century wonder!
     
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  13. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    They were not exactly paragons of virtue or endowed with vision!
     
  14. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Let us understand as to why command was upgraded to the rank of Colonel?

    The Lt Cols were doing well as it is.

    It is because the majority of the Army was being wasted out, because of lack of vacancies, at the rank of a Major.

    It was a disincentive.

    By making Lt Col the rank where people are retired even though competent but there being no vacancy, their pensions got better.

    Infantry having a huge number of officers now a days, may have a greater number of vacancies. If it was not there, who would join the infantry and even if he did, how long would he take the rigours and not apply for premature?
     
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  15. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Yes.

    He is using the word to illustrate the issue in context of things being based on quotas.
     
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  16. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    It is because the ACR system can never be objective. It is subjective.

    The only competitive exam in the Army is the Defence Services Staff College Entrance Examination.

    And every other fancy course thereafter is on the merits as decided by the ACR.

    Rank does not always indicate competence and expertise.

    Capt Amrinder Singh's book Lest We Forget shows that while Ravi Eipe of 2 RAJPUT scooted out of Thagla Ridge in 1962, when his unit perished or were taken PsW, he rose to be GOC in C Eastern Command!
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2012
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