Will Tejas MK2 be equivalant to Rafale?

Pulkit

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I pnce got an argument that we can go for More tejas than Rafale but then the cost of maintaining will be more ... Space required to keep will be more.... more staff needs to be involved... more sorties as every aircraft needs time in air ... that meams more fuel consumption... If more sorties more repair i.e. more maintenance cost...

till what extent si it justified ...

For Tejas and Rafale....???
 

abhi_the _gr8_maratha

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I pnce got an argument that we can go for More tejas than Rafale but then the cost of maintaining will be more ... Space required to keep will be more.... more staff needs to be involved... more sorties as every aircraft needs time in air ... that meams more fuel consumption... If more sorties more repair i.e. more maintenance cost...

till what extent si it justified ...

For Tejas and Rafale....???
so why not down number of squadron to 1? All maintenance will be low.
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cost of single mirage is 43 million. And I think tejas will take even lesser to upgrade cause its indigenous. 126 rafale will costs more maintenance than 300 tejas. And we have to face a two front war so needs more squadron
 

Pulkit

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so why not down number of squadron to 1? All maintenance will be low.
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cost of single mirage is 43 million. And I think tejas will take even lesser to upgrade cause its indigenous. 126 rafale will costs more maintenance than 300 tejas. And we have to face a two front war so needs more squadron
I wanted a different point of view ..... Like I said earlier we are on same page...
Just wanted a point of view from another angel....
say negative approach towards Tejas... Or in short Wat would have IAF said to support Rafale over TejasMk2 ...
we must be aware of those reasoning....
 

abhi_the _gr8_maratha

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I wanted a different point of view ..... Like I said earlier we are on same page...
Just wanted a point of view from another angel....
say negative approach towards Tejas... Or in short Wat would have IAF said to support Rafale over TejasMk2 ...
we must be aware of those reasoning....
IAF will say tejas is made in india and rafale is made in france. France makes better AC than india or tejas is light weight and rafale is medium.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Lets not confuse between types of Aircraft we are talking in terms of catagory but again lets not confused about capabilities ..

In plain words, A Light fighter is able to deliver more or less preform ace as of a Medium class fighter in certain catagory and in some it cannot ..
 

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the more the composites the more complex design. Right now not a single uses 45% composites of its weight except tejas.
No, higher percentage of composites doesn't make design complex but maintenance far more difficult and complex.
Currently there is not effective equipment or method to detect the potential problem in these composite material in the plane. So for those who are responsible for Tejas' future daily maintenance, they have to work upon their experience and hunch.
 

ersakthivel

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No, higher percentage of composites doesn't make design complex but maintenance far more difficult and complex.
Currently there is not effective equipment or method to detect the potential problem in these composite material in the plane. So for those who are responsible for Tejas' future daily maintenance, they have to work upon their experience and hunch.
There are ways to check the integrity of composites . And find out cracks.

Composites dont rust in hot and humid indian climates, also they save a lot of weight conserving fuel cost. And they can be molded into very complex shapes also.
 

abhi_the _gr8_maratha

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No, higher percentage of composites doesn't make design complex but maintenance far more difficult and complex.
Currently there is not effective equipment or method to detect the potential problem in these composite material in the plane. So for those who are responsible for Tejas' future daily maintenance, they have to work upon their experience and hunch.
actually, a composite airframe gives more life than a airframe of metals. So I think composites needs lesser maintenance than a metal airframe.
 

Pulkit

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yes Tejas MK2 is still on drawing board but i do believe that with all the experience gained in tejas mk1 we wont take those many years again...
Yes FOC has not yet been done but that is no fault at the part of tejas thats our system who has no will and no one stand and also no policy at all....
do elaborate ur last point...

:dude: Tejas Mk II is still on drawning board while Rafale is flying high. Actually we don't even know if Tejas Mk II will be able to match the earlier versions of Rafale.
Heck even a single FOC standard Mk I is not delivered yet and here we are talking about Mk II :lol: and comparing it with one of the best combat fighter out there.

The SAAB article only makes you think, What happened to the design capabilities that ADA acquired while designing MkI ?
 

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Rafael we dont need, we should continue with Tejas, instead of buying costly Rafael we better spend that money on acquiring or researching on Stealth planes.

But what India needs that is A 10 Thunderbolt. India's present MiG 27 for CAS is not enough.
 

Pulkit

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actually, a composite airframe gives more life than a airframe of metals. So I think composites needs lesser maintenance than a metal airframe.
Composites have greater strength light weight and lesser maintenance over metallic...
We can perfom NDI or ultrasonic tests to determine the correctness of each and every layer....

all the CFRP layers are placed with extreme care...

due to due the thickness can be decreased gradually with out hampering the strength and also increased if neccessary which is not practically possible for metallic parts...

Assembly is also easier in case of composite ... All the nuts and bolts metallic when used over meallic part have a greater chances of getting damaged than in case of composite where there is no reaction between the two..
Corrosion is also a factor ...
then comes the life span life of composite parts is more and also the replacability is easier....

Mettalic damages based on stress and strain analysis cannot be 100% assured wheras if the layering is as per design there is no way teh stress or strain can vary...


drilling holes for fasteners is also a case when a hole is drilled in composite part say is not as per design then we have better corrective measures for composite parts than mettalic...
 

abhi_the _gr8_maratha

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radar of earlier version of rafale, ie with pesa have range of 130-140 km. Tejas mk1' msa radar have range of 150km..... Tejas definitely have lower RCS than rafale.
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what is plus point for rafale is spectra and sensors but that too in 120 million......... Where on other hand tejas mk1 will later be fitted with aesa of mk2.
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so someone's tejas mk2 not comparable to rafale older version is funny analysis cause mk1 have many plus points over older rafale.
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PAF inducted jf17 without ioc. Even MMRCA's performance in indian condition are unknown. So its indian system responsible.
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as per internet data, aesa of rafale will have range of 260 km. And max range of su35 is 350-400km. I don't see any point that we can match su35 with rafale. Tejas mk2 have better radar and can have range of 350-400 km.
 

Pulkit

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@abhi_the _gr8_maratha Hye just out of curiosity I was wondering if IAF today signs Rafale for 20+billion then based on there other requirements like transport aircraft or refulling aircrafts orders which are still on hold due to defense cuts will IAF have enough money for Tejas MK2?
Even if the NDA govt becomes generous and gives 2% for defense with the present due risen from upgradations and delays in orders... Helis required how are they gonna pay for Tejas?
Isnt rafale going to derail all of it?
 
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abhi_the _gr8_maratha

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@Pulkit do you know the reasons behind criticism of IAF on fgfa? Its rafale. 20 billing is more than half of our defence budget. And now IAF is in worries that from where will they get money to invest in rafale so they are criticizing fgfa which will cost 25 billion and number of fgfa is more than that of rafale. So now you must have got it that fgfa can be more cost effective than rafale.
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the reason of just order of 40 tejas mk1 is same. IAF have to buy 22 apache , 15 chinook, have to say 43 million for upgrade of single mirage, jaguar upgrad, have to buy su30mki ,have to buy lch and rudra, then there is investing in projects like mk2,amca,fgfa,saras,rta,mta ,lch.
 
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Pulkit

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Exactly...
Going harsh lets scrap Rafale ...
Now what options we have...
all In addition to present orders
1)Induct 2 more Tejas MK1.
2)Induct 1 more squad of Sukhoi tehey are cheap and reliable and we can deliver then faster.
3)Let the upgradation take place it is costly but not as costly as rafale.
4)Have faith in FGFA and AMCA in next few years we will need gen 5 aircraft then rafale will be underrated... Sukhoi will be a good partener then...
5)Induct LCH faster and increase Rudra along with Dhruv aswell we need 197 heli....
6)Get our own engine....


Here rafale is holding us back from getting alot of weaponary which can be obtained by not getting rafale...

Our MIGs will be there till 2018 atleast till then we can induct close to 100+ mk1 then later upgrade them to mk2
After FOC of tejas we can also add 2 more squad of Tejas mk2 ...
We can get them for 1/4 the price of rafale.....



If scrapping is not a option lets make it half even then we will have sufficient liquidity to support all these programmes and by then even if AMCA and FGFA is delayed we have have enough strength till 2025 .


@Pulkit do you know the reasons behind criticism of IAF on fgfa? Its rafale. 20 billing is more than half of our defence budget. And now IAF is in worries that from where will they get money to invest in rafale so they are criticizing fgfa which will cost 25 billion and number of fgfa is more than that of rafale. So now you must have got it that fgfa can be more cost effective than rafale.
.
the reason of just order of 40 tejas mk1 is same. IAF have to buy 22 apache , 15 chinook, have to say 43 million for upgrade of single mirage, jaguar upgrad, have to buy su30mki ,have to buy lch and rudra, then there is investing in projects like mk2,amca,fgfa,saras,rta,mta ,lch.
 
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Hari Sud

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Fire a few marshals in the IAF, if they do not listen to changing times. if LCA MKII with SAAB help get to as close to Rafale, then go for it.

In the mean time induct more MKI,

At least it would be an Indian solution.
 

Pulkit

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Firing a few marshals will create chaos and drift between army and civilians institutions...
Its time to make them realise with different policies that now its high time to stand behind domestic goods....
With or without SAAB help Tejas MK2 will be comparable to Rafale....
and please don't call it LCA it has a name "Tejas"....

Fire a few marshals in the IAF, if they do not listen to changing times. if LCA MKII with SAAB help get to as close to Rafale, then go for it.

In the mean time induct more MKI,

At least it would be an Indian solution.
 

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