Will Tejas MK2 be equivalant to Rafale?

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

rafale will definately have greater range deep peneteration ability will be more...
Payload will be more for Rafale....

That one to one scenario where Tejas MK2 beats Rafale will be a dream coem true.....
I can debate about its superiority over chinese but pakis will stand no chance infront of it....

by decreasing numbers we will surely loose some thing but what will it be...????

Cant be have meteor only... or are we buying 126 aircrafts for meteor missile???

are you serious? Its already debated that tejas have better radar than rafale and have more stealth elements.
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tejas will have 80% of range and 3 tejas can carry more payload than 1 rafale. And for more deep strike we will have su30mki which is also superior over any chinese fighter right now.
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no chinese fighter have aesa except j10b, but its quality of radar and stealth element are unknown to me .
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so tejas mk2 will have superiority over any chinese fighters except j20,j31 @Pulkit

 

[Pulkit]

Bro read it again .... i ONLY TALKED ABOUT RANGE AND PAYLOAD THATS IT...

nEXT SENTENCE WAS

tEJAS bETTER THAN RAFALE WILL BE A DREAM COME TRUE...

I WAS COMPARING ONE TO ONE..

are you serious? Its already debated that tejas have better radar than rafale and have more stealth elements.
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tejas will have 80% of range and 3 tejas can carry more payload than 1 rafale. And for more deep strike we will have su30mki which is also superior over any chinese fighter right now.
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no chinese fighter have aesa except j10b, but its quality of radar and stealth element are unknown to me .
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so tejas mk2 will have superiority over any chinese fighters except j20,j31 @Pulkit

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

Bro read it again .... i ONLY TALKED ABOUT RANGE AND PAYLOAD THATS IT...

nEXT SENTENCE WAS

tEJAS bETTER THAN RAFALE WILL BE A DREAM COME TRUE...

I WAS COMPARING ONE TO ONE..

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tejas can carry 8 missiles containing 3 bvr. And one brahmos can destroy many villages (just fire it on dam) and economy centre or military centre .
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rafale is choosen by iaf cause of lower costs otherwise EFT is better.

 

[Pulkit]

I doubt the cost factor, as even Rafale is quite expensive .To my knowledge it was the TOT which did the trick for Rafale....

Kindly elaborate your point here about Tejas Payload ... unable to understand what u are trying to convey here?

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tejas can carry 8 missiles containing 3 bvr. And one brahmos can destroy many villages (just fire it on dam) and economy centre or military centre .
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rafale is choosen by iaf cause of lower costs otherwise EFT is better.

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

I doubt the cost factor, as even Rafale is quite expensive .To my knowledge it was the TOT which did the trick for Rafale....

Kindly elaborate your point here about Tejas Payload ... unable to understand what u are trying to convey here?

EFT too was giving TOT.
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even today rafale costs 120m and eft costs 125m. The distance was more in the time of selection.
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the payload of tejas mk2 is enough and we can buy three tejas instead one rafale meaning payload will be 13000kg.

 

[Pulkit]

EFT too was giving TOT.
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even today rafale costs 120m and eft costs 125m. The distance was more in the time of selection.
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the payload of tejas mk2 is enough and we can buy three tejas instead one rafale meaning payload will be 13000kg.

if thats the case then wat was the need of going for mmrca in the first case....I want to knw what possible advantage then rafale will have....
when tejas mk2 is just around the corner?

 

[pankaj nema]

LCA Tejas attains Initial Operational Clearance with the Indian Air Force

REALISTIC MILESTONES FOR TEJAS --------------- DATE

Delivery of first four aircraft to the IAF (IOC standard) 31ST March 2015

Delivery of next six aircraft to the IAF (IOC standard) 31ST March 2016

Delivery of eight more aircraft to the IAF (IOC standard) 31ST March 2017

First Tejas Squadron in IAF service (IOC standard) 2017


Maiden Flight Tejas Mk-2 2017

Tejas squadron declared fully operational 2020

Completion of Flight Testing Tejas Mk2 2020

Delivery of 20 Tejas fighters to IAF built to FOC standard March 31ST 2019

All IOC standard Tejas aircraft upgraded to FOC standard 2022

Series Production Tejas Mk-2 2022

First Tejas Mk-2 squadron in IAF service 2025

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Rafale is no doubt has more weight as its medium fighter and should not be compare to a light fighter, But in defense of Tejas i should point this, That this little bird can do all those duties that Rafale can do ..

1. CAS
2. SEAD
3. CAP
4. Air-supremacy ..
5. Deep strike ..

Without any handicap ..

@Kunal Biswas sir i know you dont like to be part of such comparison but still if you will put some light on this...
@abhi_the _gr8_maratha kindly provide your views on this aswell....

 

[Pulkit]

With the increased size in the case of MK2 will that small bird be still small... or will it actually fall in a category something between Light and medium....

I accept that it can do all the duties of rafale.... why what advantage does or will Rafale left with to justify its 126 for 20b.

Rafale is no doubt has more weight as its medium fighter and should not be compare to a light fighter, But in defense of Tejas i should point this, That this little bird can do all those duties that Rafale can do ..

1. CAS
2. SEAD
3. CAP
4. Air-supremacy ..
5. Deep strike ..

Without any handicap ..

 

[Pulkit]

Lets just stick to 2017 today .... and wait and watch...
Just to say that Delivery of first four aircraft to the IAF was this year promised even confirmed by HAL at many occassions.

Only FOC has been pushed by 6 months...

LCA Tejas attains Initial Operational Clearance with the Indian Air Force

REALISTIC MILESTONES FOR TEJAS --------------- DATE

Delivery of first four aircraft to the IAF (IOC standard) 31ST March 2015

Delivery of next six aircraft to the IAF (IOC standard) 31ST March 2016

Delivery of eight more aircraft to the IAF (IOC standard) 31ST March 2017

First Tejas Squadron in IAF service (IOC standard) 2017


Maiden Flight Tejas Mk-2 2017

Tejas squadron declared fully operational 2020

Completion of Flight Testing Tejas Mk2 2020

Delivery of 20 Tejas fighters to IAF built to FOC standard March 31ST 2019

All IOC standard Tejas aircraft upgraded to FOC standard 2022

Series Production Tejas Mk-2 2022

First Tejas Mk-2 squadron in IAF service 2025

 

[laughingbuddha]

Someone should prepare a computer simulator model on tejas mk2 vs Rafale and we will have a winner.

 

[Warhawk]

With the increased size in the case of MK2 will that small bird be still small... or will it actually fall in a category something between Light and medium....

I accept that it can do all the duties of rafale.... why what advantage does or will Rafale left with to justify its 126 for 20b.

Tejas Mk II is still on drawning board while Rafale is flying high. Actually we don't even know if Tejas Mk II will be able to match the earlier versions of Rafale.
Heck even a single FOC standard Mk I is not delivered yet and here we are talking about Mk II and comparing it with one of the best combat fighter out there.

The SAAB article only makes you think, What happened to the design capabilities that ADA acquired while designing MkI ?

 

[Pulkit]

Yes true it is a hypothetical scenario we are discussing about....
We are comparing proposed abilities of Tejas MK2 with the existing Rafale...

And quite a few of us consider that if Tejas Turns out wat is is on paper it will give a very tough competition to Rafale...

Tejas Mk II is still on drawning board while Rafale is flying high. Actually we don't even know if Tejas Mk II will be able to match the earlier versions of Rafale.
Heck even a single FOC standard Mk I is not delivered yet and here we are talking about Mk II and comparing it with one of the best combat fighter out there.

The SAAB article only makes you think, What happened to the design capabilities that ADA acquired while designing MkI ?

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

Tejas Mk II is still on drawning board while Rafale is flying high. Actually we don't even know if Tejas Mk II will be able to match the earlier versions of Rafale.
Heck even a single FOC standard Mk I is not delivered yet and here we are talking about Mk II and comparing it with one of the best combat fighter out there.

The SAAB article only makes you think, What happened to the design capabilities that ADA acquired while designing MkI ?

tejas mk2 design is ready. So its not in design phase. Tejas will have better radar and will be more stealthy than rafale cause of shape, composite materials etc.
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tejas mk2's spec are from flying high in indian skies while rafale's spec is from high skies of western countries.

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

Yes true it is a hypothetical scenario we are discussing about....
We are comparing proposed abilities of Tejas MK2 with the existing Rafale...

And quite a few of us consider that if Tejas Turns out wat is is on paper it will give a very tough competition to Rafale...

none of us knows that how rafale performed in MMRCA cause results are kept secret.

 

[Ray]

@Ray

MK2 was not even started and MK1 was not acceptable to IAF it was not in the same category as that of Medium ...
Its not for me to claim but what ever reason defense provided against Arjun was the weight some 5 tonne heavier i think...
Arjun is more accurate that T90...

This is not the thread but I wonder T90 and Arjun provide same features or what ... As i think T90 had few things missing which army asked for in Arjun.... dont remember where I read it sorry for that....

There were technical glitches.

Excessive weight was one of the drawbacks of the Arjun tank. It is said that it will be too heavy to cross many of India's bridges and be able to operate only on national highways. It cannot be lifted by standard Army tank transporters now in use, apart from being too wide for the tank transporters; and is also incompatible with present bridge-laying equipment.

I believe the railways has classified the new tank as an "over-dimensional consignment" requiring an increase of 150 per cent over normal transportation rakes.

 

[Santu]

tejas mk2 design is ready. So its not in design phase. Tejas will have better radar and will be more stealthy than rafale cause of shape, composite materials etc.
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tejas mk2's spec are from flying high in indian skies while rafale's spec is from high skies of western countries.

It's comparison between current rafale radar and future mk-2.. you think french will sit idle and dont improve their radar in coming 5 yrs?? It will improve drastically as 5 yrs as a good time(even india will upgrade rafale radad with new one if it finds it less competetive) .. and dont forget this.. india till date doesnt have a production quality AESA radar where france already installed thale AESA radar on rafale.. and please dont forget this.. rafale is already flying with french airforce from 2001.. Tejas Mk-1 (god knows when it will be Mk-2) not even one production quality aircraft is out.. why are we making this comparison now?? may be after 8 yrs , may be after both these aircrafts face a war , then only we can decide which is superior or inferior... till two months back all are comparing tejas with mirage and suddenly we started same argument between tejas and rafale with same set of points...

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

@Santu tejas too flying since 2001, so what's the fuss about flying of rafale? Yeah, india can upgrade radar of rafale , but what will be its cost. For mirage, we are saying 43 million.
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we were comparing tejas with mirage. Now we are comparing tejas mk2 with rafale. So I don't see any wrong in it.
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india has developed many radar. And in fact 1/8 radar of tejas mk2 is working.
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I don't think french will improve their radar in 5 years. They will, may be. But indian rafale won't get a upgrade in five years.
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and even if they improve , the difference between two radar is huge, so improvement will only make the radar of rafale near but yet inferior to tejas mk2's radar.
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how many rafale operating with aesa radar? Does rafale test fired meteor bvr successfully?

 

[power_monger]

Santu;913887It's comparison between current rafale radar and future mk-2.. you think french will sit idle and dont improve their radar in coming 5 yrs?? It will improve drastically as 5 yrs as a good time

India directly jumped from 1st gen fighters to 4th gen.The world is still around 4th Gen still yet to see True 5th Gen fighters.I dont see why we cant do catch up game.

 

[Santu]

@Santu tejas too flying since 2001, so what's the fuss about flying of rafale?

rafale is flying as a full-fledged aombat aircraft in french airforce unlike tejas which was flying in marthahalli and yelahanka of bangalore..

Yeah, india can upgrade radar of rafale , but what will be its cost. For mirage, we are saying 43 million.

I guess this discussion is on capabilities... it's our fault we didnt have indigenous fighters developed till 2000 and we have to pay for that.. as simple as that..
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we were comparing tejas with mirage. Now we are comparing tejas mk2 with rafale. So I don't see any wrong in it.

that time also we were doing stupid comparison as mirage tested in real battle where as tejas yet to get FOC.... You do it now or may be after two yrs.. then i will accept what ever results comeout..
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india has developed many radar. And in fact 1/8 radar of tejas mk2 is working.

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Please try to understand.. they actually have a AESA radar installed on rafale..

I don't think french will improve their radar in 5 years. They will, may be. But indian rafale won't get a upgrade in five years.and even if they improve , the difference between two radar is huge, so improvement will only make the radar of rafale near but yet inferior to tejas mk2's radar

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.is it ??? link please..

how many rafale operating with aesa radar? Does rafale test fired meteor bvr successfully?

production of crafts with AESA started around 2012.. by this time atleast one squadron should be ready..