Will Greece bring down the European Union (EU) ?

panduranghari

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Precisely my point. Do we see the big powers continue to support bottom rung countries? Germans have shown they don't appreciate it as shown by the elections. UK did the wise thing by not dumping its pound and go for the euro. So will counties like Germany and France go through the trouble over and over again because of lower rung counties?
UK will have to join Euro sooner or later. If they do it sooner, they can still do it on their terms. Later they will be forced to maintain their standards of living.

UK can however not join Euro presently because its debt to GDP ratio is way above 75%. The Euro sealing is 60%
 

panduranghari

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The British did one favor for us. It helped us unite into one country. We had a nation wide system in place. The currency was in place too. There were no separate economic entities.

The situation is different in europe where several nation states of vast economic disparity have joined to form a single economic entity.
British never us any favour. FWIW, the world economy will look very similar to what it was in 1800 with 1 change. There will be paper currency for day to day transaction. Gold for store of value. no more dominance of 1 country who can print paper currency.

NM Rothschild once said he who owns gold, makes the rules.
 

panduranghari

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Greece may not bring down EU as a whole but it definitely make a dent in the value of Euro and can cause deflation across the Europe and world as well. If Greece is not bailed out, the value of EURO will take a beating and will no longer serve as a better alternative reserve currency and this will make imports into EU costly, decreased consumption of goods, less spending and finally deflation which will lead to depression and this might trigger a chain reaction and serve as a contagion affecting whole world economy.

Its important to bail out Greece and other EU countries which are on the edge but EU must make sure that these bailed out countries will take stringent measures to bring back debt-to-GDP ratios and fiscal deficits in control and finally cutting off of bloated pension plans, welfare programs etc.. otherwise there is no point of bailout and better to reset these economies by letting them to default and take economic pain for a few years.
Don't believe all the noise, and there's a tonne of it right now. They don't know what they are talking about. The euro survives and thrives regardless of how the European debt crisis is ultimately resolved, and no countries will leave the euro. In fact, there are countries trying to get in, and none that will leave short of a coup, revolution or state failure, which isn't even a consideration right now. And even if that happens, the euro will still survive and thrive while the country that leaves will suffer greatly, the local hyperinflation that will ensue being the least of their problems.

Spend some quality time with the Eurosystem's balance of payments and marvel at how remarkably balanced Europe is with the rest of the world. Then compare that with the US (AND UK) balance of payments. As just a quick example, in April 2010 (one month) the Eurozone imported only €4.1 billion more goods than it exported. The US, on the other hand, imported $58 billion more goods than it exported, and April was the lowest month yet last year for the US. Of course that's just goods. For services, the US exported $14.5 billion more services than it imported. How much of that do you think was "Wall Street financial services"? Europe also exported more services than it imported, but only €2.8 billion.

So for goods and services combined, the Eurosystem ran a trade deficit of €1.3 billion in April, while the US ran only a $43.5 billion deficit (down from its previous normal $50 billion, but back up in May). Looking back at 2010 (just to get a full year's picture) the US ran a $500 billion goods and services deficit for the year. The Eurosystem (even with those lazy PIIGS) actually ran a trade surplus for the year, exporting more goods and services than it took in! So how can that be? As a currency representing a community of more than 300 million people, the euro is quite healthy compared to the dollar!

Of course there is a huge imbalance inside Europe between the states running a large surplus and those running a large deficit. But with a shared currency the adjustment pressure for such an imbalance is foisted elsewhere, not on the currency. It lands squarely on the politicians, who couldn't be a more deserving bunch of Aholes. For the dollar, the structural deficit and debt of the US places a massive devaluation pressure directly on the dollar. But for Europe the currency is balanced with no (or very little) adjustment pressure.

The economic flow of goods and services within Europe will of course have to contract as the imbalance retreats. If the euro weakens on the global currency stage Europe will start running an overall trade surplus again, like China, which will soften the blow of a contracting internal economy. If the euro strengthens, things like cheaper oil will help soften the contraction. Internally the politicians have their hands full. No doubt! Externally, the euro is just fine. To the euro the politics of the PIIGS and Germany are little more than a sideshow.

And notice I didn't even mention gold yet. Anything that would appear to seriously threatens the euro, like an outright sovereign debt default, would explode the price of gold which would simultaneously rescue the euro balance sheet and kill the dollar.
 
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panduranghari

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Heh heh. These are the sort of people in 2005 to 2007 were laughing at Peter Schiff, Jim Sinclair etc. These boneheads do not know what they do not know. Their existence depends on the continuing charade of the debt based financial system. Once the system is dead, they will have to go out and do real work. They cannot tolerate this.
 
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panduranghari

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Greece need to pull out of the Euro, restore the Greek drachma, and devalue. Seems to me it would be better for both euro and Greece.
It will cause instant hyperinflation and even worse living conditions.

Have you read 'When money dies' By Adam Ferguson. Its free internet download. Its good. I recommend it.
 

Oracle

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Greece cannot bring down EU even if it leaves EU.

Greece's GDP is roughly 4% of the total GDP of EU and this is one of the reasons why Greece is still in the EU, even after finding it hard to implement extremely tough austerity measures in the wake of public opposition and criticism, but the leaders are doing it.

Hardly anyone is talking about Greece now, all eyes are set on the 3rd largest economy in Europe, Italy. And to a certain extent on Spain, which is the 4th largest economy of the EU. EU can collapse, but for that Italy needs to slip, and then Spain.
 

asianobserve

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What a reversal of fortune. It was only 4 years ago that I was being convinced to open a Euro account... Good I did not.
 

Ray

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German minister says Greeks' EU future is in their own hands

WHETHER Greece remains in the eurozone is in the country's own hands, Germany's economy minister said.

Asked on German TV if Greece will remain in the eurozone in the long term, Philipp Roesler said: "Greeks now have that in their own hands."

The economy minister said "clear conditions have been agreed between Europe and Greece," which "must finally be implemented."

"Everything else depends on that," he said.

Greece's government must not simply "make promises", but rather "agree laws ... and if possible take the first steps to implement what has been agreed," Mr Roesler said.

"We want to see achievements and results from the ... side of the Greek government and also from [the] opposition" parties, he said.

More at

Cookies must be enabled | The Australian
 

Mr.Ryu

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Greece is not that poor just the government is because it does not collect TAX from citizens,

Europe( Euro ) is much bigger to fall just because of Greece i guess look at Germany & France they have relatively good Tax system
 

pmaitra

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GREECE: Austerity Plan Breaches Last Line of Defence of Greek Workers

GREECE: Austerity Plan Breaches Last Line of Defence of Greek Workers

JANUARY 21, 2012 BY EDITORS
Global Geopolitics & Political Economy / IPS
By Apostolis Fotiadis


ATHENS, Jan 20, 2012 (IPS) – As the Eurozone falls deeper into its sovereign debt crisis, the labour movement in Greece is being cudgelled to its knees by an austerity programme that has so far failed to bring any positive change for the crumbling Mediterranean country.

While the government slowly tightens a noose around public spending in what many economists have deemed a misguided effort to stem runaway debt, Greek workers are being stripped of their few remaining protections – a move experts see as signalling perennial deterioration of the economy.

The government now plans to cut private sector workers' wages and deny the salary increases promised in the National Collective Contract for next summer in an effort to settle its 14.4 billion dollar debt with international donors by March 20.

Read more: GREECE: Austerity Plan Breaches Last Line of Defence of Greek Workers — Global Geopolitics & Political Economy
 

judge105

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UK will have to join Euro sooner or later. If they do it sooner, they can still do it on their terms. Later they will be forced to maintain their standards of living.

UK can however not join Euro presently because its debt to GDP ratio is way above 75%. The Euro sealing is 60%
No they won't as the British people will not allow it. Fingers crossed we get out our vote and we can kiss good by to the EU. What you seem to be forgetting is there is no hope for the Euro as long as there is no fiscal union. The euro was doomed the moment it was dreamt. Without fiscal union and similar cultures, a single currency is doomed. I cannot wait for this downfall.

You clearly no nothing about British politics. We will never join the Euro because it is a doomed currency and because we like to have control of our currency plus we do not trust Europe, both historically and presently.
 

Ray

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Whatever has to happen, let it happen fast so that the guessing game is over and one can start afresh and stabilise the world economy.
 

Oracle

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Lately, many noted economists have been talking about Greece's exit(Grexit) from the EU, and how Govts and Companies are bracing themselves for it. An exit, for Greece would mean super inflation, a highly devalued currency (a depreciation of atleast 60% as compared to the Euro). There would be civil unrest, riots as the New Currency would just not be able to buy anything. As of now Greece imports 40% of its food, medicines too in a higher percentage are imported. So, if Greece exits EU, the collateral damage on World Economy would be much higher than we are expecting. Afterall, US thought Lehman's collapse can be managed, but what followed was a systematic doom of the World Economy.
 

W.G.Ewald

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Lately, many noted economists have been talking about Greece's exit(Grexit) from the EU, and how Govts and Companies are bracing themselves for it. An exit, for Greece would mean super inflation, a highly devalued currency (a depreciation of atleast 60% as compared to the Euro). There would be civil unrest, riots as the New Currency would just not be able to buy anything. As of now Greece imports 40% of its food, medicines too in a higher percentage are imported. So, if Greece exits EU, the collateral damage on World Economy would be much higher than we are expecting. Afterall, US thought Lehman's collapse can be managed, but what followed was a systematic doom of the World Economy.
So Germany should just continue to pay for inflated social benefits in non-producing countries? I must disagree.

Do you know the story of the man who wanted to dock his dog's tail, but couldn't bear to take that extreme step at one time? So every day he cut off another inch.
 

Oracle

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So Germany should just continue to pay for inflated social benefits in non-producing countries? I must disagree.

Do you know the story of the man who wanted to dock his dog's tail, but couldn't bear to take that extreme step at one time? So every day he cut off another inch.
Sir, I was saying that from a general POV. Ofcourse Germany should protect it's interests. Having said that, the austerity rhetoric Merkel chants is not aiding growth. It's aiding resentment and a deeper recession. Even Mr. Hollande has of late snubbed Merkel's austerity plans. Focus should be more on job creation, rather than cutting jobs.

Germany as the biggest EU economy has a major role to play, but by aiding member states, and not by forcing draconian austerity measures.
 

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