Will China attack India again?

Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by Yusuf, Sep 26, 2012.

  1. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Most Indians rightly see the 1962 war between India and China, and a relatively small military defeat and the major national panic that followed, as a cathartic event. While 1962 will still be the seminal year for Sino-Indian relations, it is in 1967 that Indian and Chinese troops last clashed -- at Nathu La. Since then, not a shot has been fired across the border.

    Nathu La at 14,200 feet is an important pass on the Tibet-Sikkim border through which passes the old Gangtok-Yatung-Lhasa trade route. Although the Sikkim-Tibet boundary is well defined, China never accepted Sikkim as an Indian protectorate with its army deployed there. During the 1965 India-Pakistan war, China gave an ultimatum to India to vacate both Nathu La and Jelep La passes on the Sikkim-Tibet border. Inexplicably, India's 17 Mountain Division vacated Jelep La. It still remains with China.

    At the time of the 1967 clash, India's 2 Grenadiers held Nathu La. This battalion was under the command of Lt Col (later Brigadier) Rai Singh. The battalion was under the Mountain Brigade commanded by Brig M.M.S. Bakshi, MVC.

    According to a young Indian officer, the routine at Nathu La started with patrolling by both sides along the perceived border, almost always leading to arguments. The only one on the Chinese side who could converse in broken English was the political commissar. Sentries of both forces would stand barely one meter apart in the centre of the Pass.

    Arguments between the two sides soon changed to pushing and shoving. On Sep 6, 1967, a scuffle took place. In order to de-escalate the situation, the Indian military decided to lay a wire in the centre of the Pass from Nathu La to Sebu La to demarcate the perceived border. This task was to be carried out by the 70 Field Company of Engineers assisted by a company of 18 Rajput. It was to begin Sep 11.

    Under a bright morning sun, engineers and soldiers started erecting long iron pickets from Nathu La to Sebu La while 2 Grenadiers and Artillery Observation Post Officers at Sebu La and Camel's Back were on alert. Immediately, the Chinese commissar came to the centre of the Pass.

    The commissar asked Lt. Col. Rai Singh to stop laying the wire. Orders to the Indian Army were clear. They were not to blink. An argument soon built up into a scuffle. In the melee, the commissar got roughed up. Thereafter the Chinese went back to their bunkers. Engineers resumed laying the wire.

    Within minutes, a whistle was heard on the Chinese side followed by murderous medium machine gun fire. Jawans of 70 Field Company and 18 Rajput were caught in the open and suffered heavy casualties. Col Rai Singh was wounded. Two brave officers, Capt Dagar of 2 Grenadiers and Major Harbhajan Singh of 18 Rajput, rallied a few troops and tried to assault the Chinese MMG but both died a heroic death.

    2 Grenadier opened small arms fire but it was not very effective. Within the first 10 minutes, there were nearly 70 dead and scores wounded in the open on the pass. Within half hour, Chinese artillery opened up on the pass as well as in the depth areas but it failed to do much damage due to lack of observation.

    The Indians sought artillery fire. Because of excellent domination and observation from Sebu La and Camel's Back, the officer say, artillery fire was most effective. Most Chinese bunkers were destroyed and the Chinese suffered very heavy casualties that by their own estimates were over 400. The artillery duel carried on day and night.

    For the next three days, the Chinese were taught a lesson. On Sep 14, the Chinese threatened use of air force if shelling did not stop. By then, the lesson had been driven home and an uneasy ceasefire came about.

    The Chinese, true to form, pulled over dead bodies to their side of the perceived border at night and accused India of violating the border. Dead bodies were exchanged Sep 15 in the presence of, among others, Lt. Gen. Jagjit Aurora and Lt. Gen. Sam Maneckshaw, the Eastern Army Commander.

    On Oct 1, 1967, this event repeated itself at Cho La when 7/11 Gurkha Rifles and 10 JAK Rifles were tested by the People's Liberation Army and similarly not found wanting. The lesson of 1967 has been well learnt by China, just as the lesson of 1962 has been absorbed by India. Not a single shot has been fired across the border since then. Today the Indian Army and PLA stand eyeball to eyeball but the atmosphere is far more relaxed and the two armies frequently have friendly interactions.

    (Mohan Guruswamy is a Distinguished Fellow at the Observer Research Foundation and heads the Centre for Policy Alternatives, New Delhi, a privately funded think-tank. He is the author of several books, the latest being "Chasing the Dragon: Will India Catch-up with China?" He can be contacted at [email protected])


    Source: Will India and China fight a war again? (First of 3-Part Series on 50 years after the War) - Yahoo! News India
     
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  3. blank_quest

    blank_quest Senior Member Senior Member

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    Will India and China fight a war again?




    Most Indians rightly see the 1962 war between India and China, and a relatively small military defeat and the major national panic that followed, as a cathartic event. While 1962 will still be the seminal year for Sino-Indian relations, it is in 1967 that Indian and Chinese troops last clashed — at Nathu La. Since then, not a shot has been fired across the border.

    Nathu La at 14,200 feet is an important pass on the Tibet-Sikkim border through which passes the old Gangtok-Yatung-Lhasa trade route. Although the Sikkim-Tibet boundary is well defined, China never accepted Sikkim as an Indian protectorate with its army deployed there. During the 1965 India-Pakistan war, China gave an ultimatum to India to vacate both Nathu La and Jelep La passes on the Sikkim-Tibet border. Inexplicably, India’s 17 Mountain Division vacated Jelep La. It still remains with China.

    At the time of the 1967 clash, India’s 2 Grenadiers held Nathu La. This battalion was under the command of Lt Col (later Brigadier) Rai Singh. The battalion was under the Mountain Brigade commanded by Brig M.M.S. Bakshi, MVC.

    According to a young Indian officer, the routine at Nathu La started with patrolling by both sides along the perceived border, almost always leading to arguments. The only one on the Chinese side who could converse in broken English was the political commissar. Sentries of both forces would stand barely one meter apart in the centre of the Pass.

    Arguments between the two sides soon changed to pushing and shoving. On Sep 6, 1967, a scuffle took place. In order to de-escalate the situation, the Indian military decided to lay a wire in the centre of the Pass from Nathu La to Sebu La to demarcate the perceived border. This task was to be carried out by the 70 Field Company of Engineers assisted by a company of 18 Rajput. It was to begin Sep 11.

    Under a bright morning sun, engineers and soldiers started erecting long iron pickets from Nathu La to Sebu La while 2 Grenadiers and Artillery Observation Post Officers at Sebu La and Camel’s Back were on alert. Immediately, the Chinese commissar came to the centre of the Pass.

    The commissar asked Lt. Col. Rai Singh to stop laying the wire. Orders to the Indian Army were clear. They were not to blink. An argument soon built up into a scuffle. In the melee, the commissar got roughed up. Thereafter the Chinese went back to their bunkers. Engineers resumed laying the wire.

    Within minutes, a whistle was heard on the Chinese side followed by murderous medium machine gun fire. Jawans of 70 Field Company and 18 Rajput were caught in the open and suffered heavy casualties. Col Rai Singh was wounded. Two brave officers, Capt Dagar of 2 Grenadiers and Major Harbhajan Singh of 18 Rajput, rallied a few troops and tried to assault the Chinese MMG but both died a heroic death.

    2 Grenadier opened small arms fire but it was not very effective. Within the first 10 minutes, there were nearly 70 dead and scores wounded in the open on the pass. Within half hour, Chinese artillery opened up on the pass as well as in the depth areas but it failed to do much damage due to lack of observation.

    The Indians sought artillery fire. Because of excellent domination and observation from Sebu La and Camel’s Back, the officer say, artillery fire was most effective. Most Chinese bunkers were destroyed and the Chinese suffered very heavy casualties that by their own estimates were over 400. The artillery duel carried on day and night.

    For the next three days, the Chinese were taught a lesson. On Sep 14, the Chinese threatened use of air force if shelling did not stop. By then, the lesson had been driven home and an uneasy ceasefire came about.

    The Chinese, true to form, pulled over dead bodies to their side of the perceived border at night and accused India of violating the border. Dead bodies were exchanged Sep 15 in the presence of, among others, Lt. Gen. Jagjit Aurora and Lt. Gen. Sam Maneckshaw, the Eastern Army Commander.

    On Oct 1, 1967, this event repeated itself at Cho La when 7/11 Gurkha Rifles and 10 JAK Rifles were tested by the People’s Liberation Army and similarly not found wanting. The lesson of 1967 has been well learnt by China, just as the lesson of 1962 has been absorbed by India. Not a single shot has been fired across the border since then. Today the Indian Army and PLA stand eyeball to eyeball but the atmosphere is far more relaxed and the two armies frequently have friendly interactions.

    (Mohan Guruswamy is a Distinguished Fellow at the Observer Research Foundation and heads the Centre for Policy Alternatives, New Delhi, a privately funded think-tank. He is the author of several books, the latest being “Chasing the Dragon: Will India Catch-up with China?” He can be contacted at [email protected])
     
  4. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    Re: Will India and China fight a war again?

    well i will say again.indiai and china are not pakistan

    when their is economic stake between 2 countries ,there r little chances of war.

    case with pakis are different they dont have

    economy

    PIA

    gas


    Bizli

    paani

    dam

    steel mill

    industry

    they have nothing to loose
     
  5. blank_quest

    blank_quest Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Will India and China fight a war again?

    They have LAND to loose~! :troll:
     
  6. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    no of course not, they never will ,not in a million years

    all we need to ask is what are they doing now ?

    they are transgressing the borders on a weekly basis - all in th ename of "perception"

    you see , they have their "perception" that the border runs a little differently than the way we see it - that's all

    their border has some slight changes eg a few small areas such as arunachal was incorrectly included as india also himachal pradesh and really some other parts of what is after all a disputed kashmir ( eg ladakh , leh after all they have kinda chinese -souding names dont they or if they are tibetan -sounding , then surely they are part of prc ? ) which himalayan brother pak does not also agree with india

    so there is ZERO chance of war - just a slight re-adjustment in that silly line which those awful hedgemonic british wrongly drew

    just alllow prc to re-draw that silly line, the LOC - and :- as SM krishna said - "it is the most peaceful border in the world "

    my comments : Mr Krishna , if they made you feel that way, in that case they are ready to attack tonight !
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2012
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  7. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    Re: Will India and China fight a war again?

    Logically they have already lost balouchistan and north and south waziristan where their ghaazi army scared to go:taunt1::taunt1::taunt1::taunt1:
     
  8. SADAKHUSH

    SADAKHUSH Senior Member Senior Member

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    If they do than they will be exposed to actions by other nations with whom China has territorial disputes as well. We should also know that China at the present time can not develop her shale oil/gas fields without the main ingredient to separate the oil/gas from the muck and Bharatvarsh controls 80% of the world market. I want to take the liberty to go off the topic that we are contributing to the oil/gas boom in USA as well. This product is being exported to Middle East, USA, Canada and other shale oil/gas fields around the world.

    It does not mean we should sit back with "Haath Pay Haath Rakh Kar". We should keep upgrading our capabilities on both the border as we never know a new leader might want to take more aggressive stand over the occupied territory which I would prefer as well. One of my policy and goal would be to put more pressure on China to settle the dispute permanently otherwise use the trade as a retaliation tool.
     
  9. Bheeshma

    Bheeshma Regular Member

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    Not unless they have a death wish or are on suicide watch.
     
  10. vishwaprasad

    vishwaprasad Regular Member

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    Possibility of limited border war to snatch territory (Indian) cannot be neglected. Chinese outgun us heavily in this case.
     
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  11. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    if we appear to be weak and unable to respond, can give them reason to attack. We should keep on testing Agni missile to 4k + range, with variations including MIRV. If China will feel risk not worth taking, they wont start war.
     
  12. vishwaprasad

    vishwaprasad Regular Member

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    ^^ we should declare our policy of using strategic weapons clearly without any fear...we should inform China that if they start war to capture Indian territory and if we feel that we are loosing in this war and by that loose our territory then WE WILL USE AGNI SERIES MISSILES. This will be a great deterrence. If we ourselves are not clear on the use of our strategic weapons then they will take us for granted thinking India won't use such weapons if war is kept limited to border.
     
  13. Aayush

    Aayush Regular Member

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    ^If we start using Agni,do you think the Chinese will hesitate using one of their own missiles?They are better than us in Missiles..
     
  14. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Will India and China fight a war again?

    Why not?

    It is all up to China.

    Anything and any time they want to cut down the bludgeoning population that would be an ideal solution. :pound:

    India won't hesitate to help a distressed neighbour,

    We are a helpful nation.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2012
  15. Patriot

    Patriot Senior Member Senior Member

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    As there be social/ political unrest in China, they may start small scale war just to divert peoples attentions from the problems, of course with the understanding of GOI. Both the countries will be happy at the end of the war.
     
  16. vishwaprasad

    vishwaprasad Regular Member

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    So what if they have better missiles? Should we sit back and watch them capturing our territory? By this logic we should not even fight border war with them as they have better and bigger army, much better economy...considering China's current power it is more likely they will get an upper hand in this conflict which may result in the loss of Indian territory (may be whole Arunachal) and that is why we need to declare our deterrence clearly.

    I am not saying that we should fire AGNI on the first day of the war, but we should inform them that in case if we start loosing the territory then to keep our integrity intact we will use our strategic weapons, MAYBE this will keep China at bay from considering war against India to begin with.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2012
  17. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    one more thought

    they will always hold out the possibility ( probability ?) of war as a threat

    and in doing so, they already have successfully managed to get us to divert a substantial % of our national earnings into defence

    that substantial money resource could have been used to haul massive numbers of our people out of poverty and into health - and also into other productive areas

    that in itself - puts prc-dragon outside the friendship zone - even if they never actually attack us militarily

    they already are attacking us in that way

    so we cant view them as a friend as long as that situation exists - and that will be for quite a while
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2012
  18. pankaj nema

    pankaj nema Senior Member Senior Member

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    That is a totally false statement
    India's defence expenditure even NOW that India is building or rather strengthening up its defences against
    China is still 3 % of GDP

    With respect to China we did have a decent capability vis a vis China till 2007
    Otherwise what has prevented China from repeating 1962

    But the RAPID Chinese Build up in Tibet in the LAST FEW years
    plus the road and rail infrastructure
    have forced us to counter the Chinese with a renewed build up of our own
     
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  19. pankaj nema

    pankaj nema Senior Member Senior Member

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    The increased Chinese strength has created SOME VULNERABILITIES for India

    Some areas such as Sikkim Tawang Ladakh need a further accretion of forces both IAF and IA
    to counter a determined Chinese offensive

    The way we are beefing up both our IA and IAF the Chinese build up can be NULLIFIED
    and Chinese will GO BACK to stealing FISH from Phillipines and Bullying the Vietnamese

    Perhaps China has REALISED this

    That is why the Chinese defence minister recently in Delhi was showing so much warmth
    and affection towards India
     
  20. vishwaprasad

    vishwaprasad Regular Member

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    We are beefing ourselves only on the paper bro....MRCA, heavy artillery (list goes on) are still only on the paper...

    I am not saying we are weak...we can face any enemy but our lazy leadership needs to develop habit of speeding up things when it comes to defense procurements...
     
  21. RedDragon

    RedDragon Regular Member

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    Hehe last time it is China help our distressed neighbour. And we wish we have another chance to help her again. You are welcome, LOL :lol:
     

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