Will Annas Crusade hurt India in the long term?

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by Yusuf, Apr 9, 2011.

  1. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Headlines read India Wins again. My question is, is it so? While corruption has been rampant and needed to be addressed, was this method which was used by Gandhi against foreign power appropriate?
    One of Hazares demand was the removal of Sharad Power. Not going by his antecedents and being judgemental on him, tomorrow if i dont like a person in the government or even the PM and if i am fairly popular i will sit in Jantar Mantar on a fast to get the government to drop ministers, or even the PM himself. Subtle subversion of democracy this though peoples power was in full display during the last few days. But a question, why did those men reach the government in the first place.? I am sure a vast majority of those candle holding protesters would not have voted in the last election. Its just a fashion these days to jump into candle holding vigils. Makes you look like an "activist". Everyone from Bollywood to businesses got involved.
    Let me ask, who has not offered a constable a 50 rupees note to get away with a traffic violation? Is that not corruption?
    How about constitutional means like PIL? If anyone says nothing will come of PIL sure does not trust the justice system then. The courts are at it in all corruption cases and is making life miserable for all those involved.

    At the end of the day, people will rejoice as their was a lot of anger on corruption in the country. But in the long term it has set a bad precedent in the country. Any other vested issue can also be then pushed by someone with a little bit of "people power". There are many such issues.
     
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  3. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

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    Who is sharad pawar? he is a representative of people of India. He was elected by the people and same people donot feel very happy with his work and decide to tell him who is the boss. I dont see anything wrong with it. Moreover asking for removal of one of most corrupt minister in whole UPA is not at all wrong. Infact it has set a very correct precedent serve the people else people will serve you a notice .
     
  4. ganesh177

    ganesh177 Regular Member

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    You are not getting it. People of india had it enough all these years in corruption. That is why you had countrywide support for this movement.

    Just sitting in jantar mantar and fasting will not earn you anything, there has to be wide spread support all around the nation.
    Tommorrow if someone sits in jantar mantar for some unfair demands, there wont be any people's support, there wont be any media coverage, there wont be any pressure on govt, and hence eventually police will break the backbone on those protestors for causing troubles in govt functioning. And no body will feel sorry for them, as in first place no body will know about it.

    So the key point here is support of indians. There is no such other issue will have so much of support from indians all around the corner.

    Lets not be cynical about it, and give the due credit to this man.
     
  5. Vikramaditya

    Vikramaditya Regular Member

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    I don't think so yousuf bhai,its not anna who united the people its corruption.I know so many media saying its drama for publicity,even if its true I have no problem because I need jan lokpal bill to be draft and pass.
    But drafting bill is easy not passing it espically when it target netas.We will need much much big protest when this bill will come to parliament.I am very disappointed by media like cnn-ibn.

    Its a big protest but I am surprise that pak media not even reported it...
     
  6. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

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    india has been ruled by thugs for far too long, least we let it happen any longer, and for all that happened we need to thank india's most corrupt government ever for had corruption not peaked as much and then exposed, possibly we would not have seen this day. this is possibly the best thing to have happened to independent india something that will be fondly recalled by generations to come and possibly taught as well in school curriculum as a part of indian history.

    what anna did was and is the best possible thing to have happened for a long time to come and no nothing is a bad precedent, things evolve so do governing systems and it is better to be a part of evolving and maturing system than be in a sham system which just works for a handful people who are powerful, mighty and well connected.

    if india was such a fantastic democracy where every thing was perfect then why the need of oppressed people of this country to take to violence? why is it that even after repeated calls by the PM of our country the same oppressed lot do not have faith in him, his government and all these politicians to shun violence and come forward for talks?

    we should thank we have people like anna in this country who still talk the language of ahimsa, and work for a better tomorrow which at least will try and give equal opportunity to everyone alike tomorrow, otherwise the way vast majority of this country (read poor) are being oppressed dont be surprised if maoism spreads at a break neck speed and then there will be mob justice like never seen before something that should never ever happen.

    what this movement has also shown is that if people get united, the high and mighty cant any longer hide behind democracy and continue taking their voter and the people of india for a ride under various guise, no wonder the political class and vested interests are disappointed. there is also a lesson for all those who have taken to gun for whatever reason within this country, the majority of this country will not support you if you take to violence but if the same thing is said through non-violent means and the demands are reasonable the vast majority will support and if the ruling elite is not ready to listen to you they will be forced to do it, so it is time they shun violence and took to the means once adopted by gandhi who and whose means still finds a resonance within millions of indian hearts.

    yusuf, you and i can afford bribing rs 50 and much much more any given day, but mate think about a person who just earns far less than that in a day and has a family to feed and then that person is forced to pay a bribe, we should thank our stars and god that we are not that person and we have a life much better but if we were that person we would not have been thinking bad precedents, democracy and all that but just wondering how i would and my family survive the next day. we are lucky to have not witnessed such extreme poverty and on top of that oppression which sadly 100s of millions of indians are still forced to see and live through every given day of their lives and that person and a lot of those people give up hope who either commit a suicide or take to the gun and then we wonder what went wrong.

    we have to have a system which works equally for everyone and gives equal opportunities to everyone and not a select few and not just have a democracy which is namesake!
     
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  7. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    The issue is not Anna Hazare.

    He is only the focus of the national ire against the galloping corruption. It has permeated through every walk of life including holy cows like the Armed Forces.

    Mickey Manmohan sitting like a Gautam Buddha statue, always claiming that he is clean has made a Mickey Mouse of governance. What is the use of having Mr Clean sitting complacently over a dung heap?

    It is not about political parties. They are all the same. All crooks.

    It is time to clean the Aegean stable.

    How long are we to tolerate this scam a day and puss,yfooting in getting the accused to justice? How long are we to tolerate so called independent organisation like the CBI, CVC or even the Judiciary (ex CJI) under the Govt's thumb to be manipulated?

    It is time the independent agencies really become independent.

    How long are we to be fooled by hollow slogans as 'Am Admi' or 'Ma, manush, Mati' and other inane nonsense.

    It is time to make these hollow slogans turning concrete.

    Even today, Pranab M claims that the corruption is affecting the 'poor'. What poor? It is affecting all Indians, irrespective of poverty or riches. Yes, all Indians, except the damned politicians, bureaucrats and the power brokers!

    And worse than Mickey Manmohan and his Buddha like silence and batting of eyelids, is Sonia G. What is her locus standi to decide what the Govt should do? She has made the PM's office and Manmohan Singh a ventriloquist's dummy! A total insult to the high office and making this hapless man appear an impotent stooge!

    And Sharad Pawar? He is a total humbug.

    If this was not the right way, then suggest what could be the right way.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2011
  8. arya

    arya Senior Member Senior Member

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    well he did good thing but the fact is that many time we saw govt bend infornt of wrong demands

    in future many wrongs pepoles can use same formula

    pepoles are not capabale to judge the national security in long terms
     
  9. pankaj nema

    pankaj nema Senior Member Senior Member

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    All these fears are unfounded and baseless .

    In India there is a lot of wisdom in the society and people

    So just by saying that A bill which is being CO DRATED by the Civil Society And which then will be considered and passed by Parliament

    AND which THEN will be of course be subject to Judicial Scrutiny ie by Supreme Court ; is Dangerous to the country, is an INSULT to the intelligence of Indian people
     
  10. amitkriit

    amitkriit Senior Member Senior Member

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    People are the real rulers of this country, they can force government to do whatever they want. If people want Jan Lokpal Bill, then government must do it, without making any fuss and the self-appointed bleeding-heart intellectuals must shut their mouth. People of India aren't naive or stupid.

    Government blinked because this movement was surely going to transform itself into a pan-India mass-movement had the government waited for a few more days. Anna Hazare is only the symbol, people of India are the real actors, they forced the change. Government and opposition are united against common people on the issue of corruption, so we needed this showoff.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2011
  11. pankaj nema

    pankaj nema Senior Member Senior Member

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    The issue is not Anna Hazare or even the Lok pal Bill

    The issue is Corruption and the extent to which the politicians have taken for granted the people of India AND the attitude of the political class and their cronies ie the money bags
    with Billions in Black money
     
  12. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

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    NEW DELHI: After successfully leading the agitation on Lokpal Bill, social activist Anna Hazare has struck a note of caution.

    Expressing apprehension over parliamentarians' readiness to pass a strong anti-corruption legislation he has asked his supporters to be prepared for a "bigger battle".

    Addressing the media, the 73-year-old social activist said "power-hungry" politicians will not easily accept any bill having stringent provisions against corruption or "shed" the power they enjoy.

    "But on this issue, people will get together," he said adding, MPs and MLAs were being elected to serve the people and not to be their masters. "But they (elected representatives) have forgotten this."

    Hazare, who has set August 15 as the deadline for passage of the bill, said, "I feel there will be need for a bigger agitation in future (to get the bill passed in Parliament)."

    "I don't think they (MPs) will easily accede to the passage of the bill as they feel it will cut down their powers."

    He said there is no fear among those who indulge in corruption. The proposed Lok Pal will act a deterrent for the corrupt and put a "big break" on the menace, Hazare felt.

    Agencies like the CBI, the CVC and others are under government control and so they cannot fight corruption effectively, he said adding, when the Lok Pal Bill comes into effect, the authority will have autonomy and no one will be able to put a spoke in its functioning.

    Replying to a question, he dismissed the possibility of misuse of the proposed law for political purposes.

    Admitting that he did not expect the groundswell of support for his campaign witnessed in the last five days, he said people joined him in such large numbers as they were fed up with corruption. "They have had enough of it."

    Asked if he has come out as a "national hero" to the youth like Mahatma Gandhi, Hazare said, "I am not worthy of even sitting at Gandhiji's feet. But he has influenced my thought process."
     
  13. ganesh177

    ganesh177 Regular Member

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    Thats the million dollar question at the moment.
    If the bill is drafted too strong, then how are we going to expect the politicians to pass it ?

    I wish if there was open voting system so that we come to know who voted against the bill.
     
  14. Param

    Param Senior Member Senior Member

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    There is no need for an open voting system because all of them would vote against it.
     
  15. S.A.T.A

    S.A.T.A Senior Member Senior Member

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    The question raised by Yusuf is pertinent and quite relevant to the question of Lokpal bill and its role in the fight against institutionalized corruption.Anna Hazare's aversion to Sharad pawar is quite well known,however can the mere presence of a perception,perhaps even widely prevalent,good enough reason to publicly indict a person for corruption.This is one reason why i find it rather too premature,to indulge in the kind of exultation and euphoria that one witnessed on some of the news channels.It seems like the Indian media was trying to ratchet up a kind of visuals we have witnessed in some middle eastern cities in the recent months, and our media wanted some of those moments,well who can blame them.

    With all due regard to Shri Anna hazare and his steadfastness in the fight against corruption in public sphere,mere polemics and satyagrahas wont do,there is difference between the perception of person being corrupt and actually proving that against him in a court of law.Where we have failed despite the advantage having all required law to fight corruption,is too actually have the resources to prove such charges as they might exist,we have whole slew of graft sagas,from bofors to fodder scam,where the inability of law enforcement agencies,for reason quite well known,whose prosecution history stands as a mockery of our avowed determination to stamp out institutionalized corruption from our public and civil life.

    The reasons why such and similar prosecutions make no headway is ingrained in our system of governance and the constitutional framework in which it functions,one Lokpal bill i'm afraid will not make any serious dent in the challenge we face.

    On the question of whether Anna hazare's method to bear moral pressure on the state to concede to his demands is appropriate,well Harish Salve appearing on a news network made an interesting observation regarding the nature and dynamics of the 'people's representative',his contention that individuals elected to the respective peoples assembles and parliament,alone cannot claim monopoly to represent the people,when the modern technologies of mass communication,not just restricted to television,verily shows that Anna hazare's cause and its public avowal was no less 'representative',is not without merit.
     
  16. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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    In Pak corruption is legal, so they will never report it. as this against their law..........
     
  17. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    The question raised by yusuf is right, I fear we will see all sort of people getting indulged in this sort of brinkmanship to get there way.
     
  18. amitkriit

    amitkriit Senior Member Senior Member

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    Not without public support. This was not a drama, but a real mass movement against corruption. Power lies in people of India.
     
  19. maomao

    maomao Veteran Hunter of Maleecha Senior Member

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    Politicians, their rants about how this movement would create trouble in the future, industrialists, shameless corrupt babus, power-brokers et al; and even constitution is nothing in front of the people and land!

    The VIP culture, exclusivity and elitism by politicians, payed media, corrupt babus et al has created safe fortresses for these corrupt babus and politicians so that they can deal in back money with ease, and then send it over this money to all the money-laundering havens.....we have to kill this VIP culture introduced by Nehru and let every thing happen in the open.....surely it will hurt the Rajmata's party the most and her dumb cub's prospects to become emperor Caesar!
     
  20. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    Do you really think, a "mass movement" can not be created/doctored?
     
  21. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

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    It can be doctored but you must have a strong reason for having such a great involvement of people . Do you think and tom **** and harry can repeat this feat ? It was corruption-less image of Anna Hazare and a perfect issue that made it a mass movement.
     

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