Wikileaks Pakistan

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by Bot, May 20, 2011.

  1. Bot

    Bot Non stop posting Banned

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  3. Bot

    Bot Non stop posting Banned

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  4. Parthy

    Parthy Air Warrior Senior Member

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    Pak mlitary brass wanted drone support: WikiLeaks

    The American government secret cables leaked by the WikiLeaks have revealed that Pakistan's military brass had requested the US for greater drone back-up for its own military operations in the country's restive tribal regions, according to a report published in the Dawn newspaper.

    Earlier, WikiLeaks had exposed that Pakistan's civilian leadership had tacitly agreed to the US drone strikes in the tribal areas but told the American officials that they will publicly condemn such attacks. The latest findings about the military leadership that they wanted the US drones support for their offensives in the tribal belt will add to public displeasure against the generals. Pakistan's military had been reeling under pressure in the wake of Osama bin Laden's killing in a unilateral US raid on May 2.

    "In a meeting on January 22, 2008 with US CENTCOM commander Admiral William J Fallon, Army Chief General Ashfaq Kiyani requested the Americans to provide "continuous Predator coverage of the conflict area" in South Waziristan where the army was conducting operations against militants," stated a secret cable sent by then US Ambassador Anne Patterson on February 11, 2008.

    "During talks with General Kiyani, the US chairman joint chiefs of staff Admiral Mike Mullen asked him for help "in approving a third restricted operating zone for US unmanned aircrafts over the tribal areas," a cable sent from the US embassy in Islamabad on March 24 stated. It meant that Pakistan had earlier agreed for US drone operations in two restricted zones. However, the military has consistently denied any involvement in the CIA-driven covert programme.

    In a cable dated February 19, 2009, ambassador Patterson sent agenda points to the US, a week before Kiyani's visit to Washington. She wrote: "Kiyani knows well that the strikes have been precise (creating few civilian casualties) and targeted primarily at foreign fighters in the North and South Waziristan tribal regions."

    In yet another previously unpublished cable dated May 26, 2009 details President Zardari's meeting on May 25 with an American delegation led by senator Patrick Leahy. "Referring to a recent drone strike in the tribal area that killed 60 militants," wrote ambassador Patterson in her report, "Zardari reported that his military aide believed a Pakistani operation to take out this site would have resulted in the deaths of over 60 Pakistani soldiers."

    Drone attacks are extremely unpopular in Pakistan. Pakistan's Parliament has recently passed a unanimous resolution asking for end to drone strikes. It said that if the US continued with their covert operations, Pakistan would block the transit route for US lead Nato and ISAF troops in Afghanistan. However, several drone strikes occurred after the parliament adopted a non-binding resolution.



    Pak mlitary brass wanted drone support: WikiLeaks - The Times of India
     
  5. SpArK

    SpArK SORCERER Senior Member

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    At PAF HQ March 17, Air Vice Marshall (AVM) Khalid
    Chaudhry (Deputy Chief of Air Staff for Operations) and Air
    Commodore Jamshed listened carefully as A/S Hillen outlined
    concerns raised by some Members of Congress regarding the
    pending sale of F-16s to Pakistan. AVM Chaudhry assured A/S
    Hillen that Pakistan is prepared to address all USG security
    concerns regarding the F-16s. Citing PAF's long history of
    cooperation with USAF, he was perplexed that some in the U.S.
    are still anxious about Pakistan's security protocols for the
    F-16s. Chaudhry acknowledged that the Chinese JF-17 (another
    staple in the PAF fleet) is simply not comparable to the F-16
    in terms of quality, particularly its avionics and weapons
    systems. Chaudhry then contrasted PAF's F-16 fleet to the
    array of fighters possessed by the Indian Air Force (IAF),
    supported by strong defense acquisition relationships with
    the U.S. and Israel. "The math just doesn't add up,"
    Chaudhry said, admitting that the PAF has no hope of matching
    the IAF's resources. Even the proposed F-16 purchase will
    not make that much difference in the relative imbalance of
    power, although it will enable Pakistan to maintain a minimum
    deterrent capability.
    The F-16s have acquired a mythic
    quality in Pakistan, AVM Chaudhry admitted, taking on an
    inflated symbolic importance in the public imagination. He
    concluded by asking A/S Hillen to ensure that the F-16 deal
    has enough sweeteners to appeal to the public -- a complete
    squadron of new F-16s, with JDAM and night-vision capability
    -- but not to offer the PAF things that it cannot afford.
     
  6. SpArK

    SpArK SORCERER Senior Member

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    Given all that Pakistan has done for the U.S.,
    Chaudhry said, Pakistan's military leaders have a difficult
    time maintaining positive attitudes toward the U.S. amongst
    enlisted personnel. He cited the suseptibility of the
    enlisted ranks -- most of whom come from rural villages -- to
    the influence of extremist Islamic clerics: "You can't
    imagine what a hard time we have trying to get to trim their
    beards."
    (Note: This last comment refers to the tradition of
    conservative Muslims to grow full beards as a sign of piety.
    End note.) Chaudhry claimed to receive reports monthly of
    acts of petty sabotage, which he interpreted as an effort by
    Islamists amongst the enlisted ranks to prevent PAF aircraft
    from being deployed in support of security operations in the
    Federally Administrated Tribal Areas (FATA) along the Afghan
    border.
    (Note: Speaking off the record, Chaudhry told A/S
    Hillen that PAF aircraft are regularly called to provide air
    support to military and security forces when they get into
    tight spots in the FATA...dryily adding that Army brass and
    the ground forces commanders would deny it
    . End note.)

    Vice Chief of Army Staff (VCOAS):hail::hail:
     
  7. SpArK

    SpArK SORCERER Senior Member

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  8. JAYRAM

    JAYRAM 2 STRIKE CORPS Senior Member

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    Wikileaks: Pakistan sabotaged F-16's...

    Updated: May 20, 2011 11:14 IST

    New Delhi: A WikiLeaks cable, which NDTV has exclusive access to, says Pakistan's airmen were being radicalised and were sabotaging Pakistani F-16s deployed for security operations along the Afghan border.
    (Read Cable: Pakistan cable on visiting US officials being briefed on F-16s)

    The cable, sent in March 2006 from the US embassy to Washington, quotes Pakistan's then Deputy Chief of Air Staff for Operations, Air Vice Marshal (AVM) Khalid Chaudhry, as saying that the airmen, most of whom came from rural villages, were being radicalised by extremist Islamic clerics. The cable quotes AVM Chaudhry as saying, "You can't imagine what a hard time we have trying to get to trim their beards." The cable notes that, "This last comment refers to the tradition of conservative Muslims to grow full beards as a sign of piety."

    The cable also says that Chaudhry claimed "to receive reports monthly of acts of petty sabotage, which he interpreted as an effort by Islamists amongst the enlisted ranks to prevent PAF aircraft from being deployed in support of security operations in the Federally Administrated Tribal Areas (FATA) along the Afghan border."

    Chaudhry was briefing visiting US officials at the Pakistan Air Force Headquarters and impressing upon them the need to ensure "the F-16 deal has enough sweeteners to appeal to the public - a complete squadron of new F-16s, with JDAM and night-vision capability - but not to offer the PAF things that it cannot afford." Pakistan was in talks with the US to buy F-16 fighter aircraft and the US had voiced security concerns.

    The cable quotes Chaudhry as telling the delegation, "off the record", that PAF aircraft were regularly called to provide air support to military and security forces when they get into tight spots in the FATA... "dryly adding that Army brass and the ground forces commanders would deny it."


    WikiLeaks: Pakistani airmen sabotaging F-16s
     
  9. JAYRAM

    JAYRAM 2 STRIKE CORPS Senior Member

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    Leaked cable says Pakistanis sabotaged own air missions

    Pakistani airmen sabotaged their fighter jets to prevent them from participating in operations against militants along the border with Afghanistan, according to a leaked U.S. Embassy cable.

    Another cable reveals that Pakistan's army chief asked U.S. military officials for “continuous” coverage by Predator drones along that border despite criticism of the strikes by Pakistani officials in public.

    The anti-secrecy group WikiLeaks has provided a batch of U.S. diplomatic cables to Pakistan’s Dawn newspaper and India’s New Delhi Television and the Hindu newspaper.

    A March 2006 cable cites the Pakistani deputy chief of air staff for operations, Air Vice Marshal Khalid Chaudhry, as telling a visiting U.S. delegation that he was receiving monthly reports of acts of “petty sabotage” of jets by airmen.

    Vice Marshal Chaudhry interpreted these acts as an effort by “Islamists amongst the enlisted ranks to prevent [Pakistani air force] aircraft from being deployed in support of security operations in the Federally Administrated Tribal Areas along the Afghan border,” the cable says.

    The U.S. delegation was led by John Hillen, assistant secretary of state for political-military affairs.

    Another cable, sent in February 2008, revealed that Pakistan's army chief, Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, sought “continuous Predator coverage of the conflict area” in an area along the Afghanistan border where the Pakistani army was fighting militants.

    In a meeting on Jan. 22, 2008, Gen. Kayani asked Navy Adm. William J. Fallon, who was chief of U.S. Central Command, for drone presence over South Waziristan.

    ”Fallon regretted that he did not have the assets to support this request, but offered Joint Tactical Aircraft Controller (JTAC) support for Pakistani aircraft. Kayani demurred, saying that having U.S. JTACs on the ground would not be politically acceptable,” according to the cable.

    Vice Marshal Chaudhry, speaking “off the record,” told Mr. Hillen that Pakistani aircraft are called regularly to provide air support to military and security forces when they get into tight spots in the tribal areas near the Afghanistan border, “dryly adding that army brass and the ground forces commanders would deny it,” the cable said.

    In a rare public statement this year, Gen. Kayani condemned a March 17 U.S. drone strike that Pakistan said killed up to 40 people in North Waziristan.

    Most Pakistanis oppose drone strikes, which they see as a violation of Pakistani sovereignty.

    U.S. and Pakistani officials have not publicly acknowledged the covert program.

    However, a Pakistani official who spoke on the condition of anonymity, citing the sensitivity of the matter, told The Washington Times that these operations have been carried out after robust intelligence sharing between Pakistan and the U.S.

    The Predator drones are operated from bases inside Pakistan the Shamsi air base and Jacobabad.

    U.S. officials and analysts say elements within Pakistan’s armed forces and intelligence agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence, are reluctant to sever ties with militants operating in Afghanistan and India.

    “Pakistani military operations against insurgent groups have always been primarily focused on threats to Pakistani security,” said Jeffrey Dressler, a research analyst at the Institute for the Study of War.

    At a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing last week, Sen. Christopher A. Coons, Delaware Democrat, raised questions about Pakistan’s commitment to acting against terrorists.

    “I’m deeply disturbed by what seems to be a state that plays a double game, that accepts significant multibillion-dollar aid from us, combat groups that target its own domestic concerns, but then clearly hedges against the U.S. mission in Afghanistan is an uneven partner at best,” he said.

    Navy SEALs killed Osama bin Laden early May 2 in Abbottabad, a garrison town about 30 miles from the Pakistani capital, Islamabad. The al Qaeda leader’s hide-out was barely a mile from the Pakistan Military Academy at Kakul.

    In his meetings with the U.S. officials, Vice Marshal Chaudhry said Pakistan’s military leadership has a tough time maintaining positive attitudes toward the U.S. among enlisted personnel.

    The cable says he cited the susceptibility of the enlisted ranks - most of whom come from rural areas - to the influence of Islamist clerics. “You can’t imagine what a hard time we have trying to get to trim their beards,” Vice Marshal Chaudhry is quoted as saying in a cable.

    Conservative Muslims grow full beards as a sign of piety.

    While in Pakistan, Mr. Hillen heard criticism of President George W. Bush’s decision not to give Pakistan a civil nuclear deal similar to the one he struck with India.

    A Pakistani official expressed dismay at Mr. Bush’s reference to rogue nuclear scientist, Abdul Qadeer Khan, as the reason why the U.S. would not offer this deal to Islamabad.

    Nazir Hussain, who at the time was chief of protocol at Pakistan’s foreign ministry, told Mr. Hillen: “Your man cut Musharraf off at the knees” with that public comment, according to the cable. Gen. Pervez Musharraf was the Pakistani president.

    Pakistan was negotiating the sale of F-16 fighter jets with the U.S. at the time, and Vice Marshal Chaudhry asked Mr. Hillen to ensure that the deal “has enough sweeteners to appeal to the public - a complete squadron of new F-16s, with JDAM and night-vision capability - but not to offer the PAF things that it cannot afford,” according to the cable.

    Discussing the Chinese JF-17 Thunder jet, a key component of Pakistan’s fighter fleet, Vice Marshal Chaudhry acknowledged that the jet was not comparable to the U.S. F-16 in terms of quality, particularly its avionics and weapons systems.

    On a trip to Beijing last week, Pakistani Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani secured a deal in which China will provide Pakistan with 50 more JF-17s.

    Pakistani Defense Minister Ahmad Mukhtar said Pakistan was seeking delivery of the jets within six months.

    © Copyright 2011 The Washington Times, LLC.

    Leaked cable says Pakistanis sabotaged own air missions - Washington Times
     
  10. ejazr

    ejazr Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    What friends say about Pakistan in private -Wikileaks

    What friends say about Pakistan in private | Newspaper | DAWN.COM

    KARACHI: Pakistan remains “an army in search of a country,” according to French President Nicolas Sarkozy’s Diplomatic Adviser. The condescending characterization, made to former US Ambassador Richard Holbrooke and US Ambassador to France, Charles Rivkin, is contained in a previously unpublished secret US diplomatic cable dated September 3, 2009 accessed by Dawn through WikiLeaks.

    The French adviser, Jean-David Levitte, described as “a National Security Adviser equivalent and Holbrooke’s former counterpart at the UN”, is considered by the US Embassy in Paris to be “one of the most important and influential voices within the GOF [Government of France] on national security policy.”

    While most of the secret American diplomatic cables obviously focus on American perceptions of Pakistan, some of the documents also reveal telling bits of information about how representatives of other friendly states, particularly other allies of the US government and Pakistan, view this country.

    In the meeting with Holbrooke and Rivkin, which took place on August 31, 2009, Levitte also asserted that “the Pakistani army is well regarded by the Pakistani people when not in power, but that it fails when in power.” He was also “more pessimistic” than the US about Pakistan, noting that the country has “chosen Islamicisation for generation after generation” leading to a now “transformed society.”

    In another cable dated January 22, 2010, Jasmine Zernini, head of the French government’s interagency Afghanistan-Pakistan cell, told American officials that although General Kayani had “learned the lesson of Musharraf” and was staying behind the scenes, she felt he was (according to the cable) “manipulating the government and parliament, including to prevent change on Pakistan’s policy towards…FATA along the Afghan border, and also to stir up controversy regarding the Kerry-Lugar bill.”

    In another cable (dated September 22, 2009) detailing meetings between officials from the American and British governments, Jon Day, the Director General for Security Policy in the Ministry of Defence, noted that “recent intelligence” indicated that Pakistan was “not going in a good direction.” He also asked visiting US Under Secretary for Arms Control and International Security, Ellen Tauscher, “if the US would be ‘obliged’ to cut relations with Pakistan if the military took over again.” Day also inquired about US perspective on Nawaz Sharif “whom he described as ‘potentially less venal’ than other Pakistani leaders.” Previously published cables have already revealed what opinion Abu Dhabi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Zayed and Saudi King Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz held of President Zardari and Mr. Sharif.

    In the same cable, Mariot Leslie, the Director General, Defence and Intelligence of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office of the British government expresses satisfaction that China had “dumped” Pakistan in the Conference on Disarmament which in her opinion was a “good sign.”

    The dismissive attitude towards Pakistan is, however, not limited to Western governments. In a cable dated December 21, 2009, Egyptian Defence Minister Mohamed Hussein Tantawi told US Director of National Intelligence Dennis Blair that Egypt encountered the same suspicions from Pakistan as the US did. Pakistanis, he said, “don’t trust Egyptians either.” He went on to say that “while the Pakistanis were ‘difficult’… Egypt was still trying to ‘work with them.’” According to the cable, Mr Tantawi, who has previously served as the Egyptian Defence Attache to Pakistan, also pointedly noted that “any country where the military became engaged in ‘internal affairs’ was ‘doomed to have lots of problems.’”

    The assessment by other friendly states of Pakistan’s role in Afghanistan is also indicative of the perceptions — whether grounded in reality or not — that Pakistan must contend with. In a secret cable dated January 23, 2010, a senior Saudi intelligence official is quoted as telling a US official that “the SAG [Saudi Arabian government] viewed the Afghan Taliban as largely under the control of Pakistan” and that “the Afghan Taliban needed support to be able to become more independent of Pakistan.”

    General Masudi, the head of internal affairs for the General Intelligence Presidency of Saudi Arabia told Barnett R. Rubin, the Special Adviser to Holbrooke that “outside powers, like Iran and Pakistan, had influenced the uneducated Afghans to believe that the US and the SAG were working against the Afghan people,” adding that “We have to convey the truth to this group.”

    Gen Masudi also pointed out that the Saudi government was holding a number of Afghans in prison on charges of fundraising for the Taliban and speculated that “perhaps these prisoners could be used as bargaining chips in political talks.”

    Gen Masudi while being sympathetic to Pakistan’s concerns regarding Afghanistan also cautioned that it was important to “reassure Pakistan that any activities conducted wouldn’t harm its interests, otherwise there might be a backlash.” He also explained Pakistan’s unease over developments in Afghanistan by saying that “the Pakistanis felt that they deserved to have a big part in Afghanistan,” according to the cable. “They wanted to be ‘the closest friend’ and were offended when they thought Iran or India were taking this role.”

    The concern over Pakistan’s nuclear weapons programme is, of course, a recurrent theme in many countries’ representatives conversations with US diplomats. According to the cable referenced earlier, for example, Mr Levitte, the French adviser to President Sarkozy, told the Americans that the French government was “not sure that the Pakistani nuclear deterrent is secure,” especially “with the frequent movement of nuclear weapons by the Pakistani military.” The French, he said, would provide technical assistance to Pakistan on issues of nuclear safety but “he firmly stated that the GOF would not supply nuclear energy technology.”

    Cables referenced: WikiLeaks #223496, 245077, 217654, 226331, 245018, 240923
     
  11. Known_Unknown

    Known_Unknown Devil's Advocate Stars and Ambassadors

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    Encouraging to read that western countries are confronting the reality of Terroristan. However, unless they take the same approach towards it as they did towards Iran, Terroristan will become much worse of a problem down the road. The only way to stabilize that country is for the UN to disarm it of its nukes, and under economic and military duress, force it to reform and become a secular, progressive country, in the image of Bangladesh if not India. Hell, let the US or China provide Terroristan with a security guarantee against India if necessary, as long as the country stops harbouring terrorists, promises that it will not attack Indian soil or assets abroad, and works towards its own prosperity.

    Sometimes, people need a little a$$-whooping to make the right choice.
     
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  12. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    Terroristan is already ruined beyond the point of redemption. The only way to "heal" it is to break it up.

    Pakistan's nukes have a dual purpose: more than just threatening India, the nukes are used to blackmail other countries. If Pakistan is ever faced with a situation where their country might erupt into Civil War (which seems likely in the near future), they can raise raise a storm about the "security" of their nukes and warn that a few might "accidentally" fall into the hands of "non-state actors"; this way, they can hope to garner at least some support for the central state.
     
  13. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    People from western countries can no longer be fooled like before. Earlier the western people were fed lies about India while Pakistan was everything India was supposed to be, but now the tables have turned.
     
  14. ejazr

    ejazr Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Well what I found more interesting were comments from the Egyptians, UAE and Saudis. It shows that the destructive policies have created mistrust in all these countries.

    China is probably the only country left but even they are in a corner in some aspects due to world pressure to act against Pakistan.
     
  15. Solid Beast

    Solid Beast New Member

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  16. Solid Beast

    Solid Beast New Member

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  17. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    SB this a very important point of view regarding the Turkish angle in Afganistan. But with turkey getting Rebuffed by the EU and relations with NATO at it's lowest point things could be different in the near future.

    Also I am seeing a bid by Turkey to take over the lead role among the Arab/Muslim countries.
     
  18. Solid Beast

    Solid Beast New Member

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  19. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    SB you have given me a lot to read up on this Turkic angle. Many thanks for it. One point in the Turkic nations would be Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan azjerbaijan .please correct me and add something if I have missed any
     
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  20. Solid Beast

    Solid Beast New Member

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  21. ejazr

    ejazr Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Agree with most of what you said Solid Beast.

    Its not a widely known fact but during the 90s, Turkey was supporting General Dostum - an ethnic Uzbek and part of the Northern Alliance in conjunction with Iran, India and other CARs.

    However, I doubt NATO would have the capacity to go in Pakistan and take out nukes without approval or some sort of support from the GoP or more specifically the PA/ISI leadership.
     

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