Why the United States Promotes India's Great-Power Ambitions

[JayATL]

One ship?? It was the 7th fleet!!!!
Nixon wanted to nuke us for god's sake.

And your example was merely meant to flame the other party, you had already made your point with your British Raj remark.
His point still stands, how can we trust an "ally" that did not think twice before doing another Hiroshima on us for the sake of our greatest enemy
What has changed in the last 40 years?

7 th fleet or aircraft carrier. whatever it was - Nixon did not intend to Nuke India- come on it was a power play..really nuke India over what? a Pak war? Thats just absurd. How can you trust? well let's see :

You can ask them to remove you from the Hi tech dual usage restricted list-- but still no trust
You can ask them to invest in your country - but still not trust
you can be in position to able to have nuclear deals w/o NPT - but still not trust
you ask them to supply the latest arms to safeguard your security- but still not trust
you request them to issue more visas ( already I read something close to 68% of visas issued period were to Indians)- but still not trust
You can ask them to put pressure and threaten Pakistan to stop Kargil from escalating- but still not trust
You can ask them to grant India a UN security seat- but still not trust
You can ask them to open their markets to sell Indian exports- but still not trust
You can seek their hi tech help and their FBI to nail the mumbai attackers as being ISI backed and thus get the WORLD opinion on India's side- but still not trust

I can go and on what has changed in the last 40 years, I can also say trust but verify - but how does that change the facts that even small snippet I've shown you above- was apparently missed by you and some others?

Btw- sorry you took offense to my hard hitting example about the risk of " not forget/ forgive" I stand by it. Its blunt but in context

 

[asianobserve]

Are you ignorant or naive ?

We were in shambles in 1947 and if we would have opened the doors of capitalism to western corporations they would have fleeced the country dry by now and today we'd be no different than africa. Those years of socialism helped Indian industries to stand on there footing, you think our companies, farmers etc would have been able to compete with the west ?...guess what it served its purpose.

Neither. All I know was that Japan and SOKOR were placed far worse during the 40s and 50s. Cuba on the other hand is still wallowing in the 50s...

 

[asianobserve]

Are you ignorant or naive ?

We were in shambles in 1947 and if we would have opened the doors of capitalism to western corporations they would have fleeced the country dry by now and today we'd be no different than africa. Those years of socialism helped Indian industries to stand on there footing, you think our companies, farmers etc would have been able to compete with the west ?...guess what it served its purpose.

You're rethoric is at home on the blame it on the US camp. I'm not surprised. But foreign policy should be conducted in a cold and objective manner. Your emotions, probably owing to your background and education, is fundamentally anti-West, especifically anti-US, and it is getting in the way of objective analysis. You're still lucky though your current Prime Minister had the wisdom to rise through the fog of decades of anti-Western indoctrination and actually orient India in the right direction.

 

[Virendra]

7 th fleet or aircraft carrier. whatever it was - Nixon did not intend to Nuke India- come on it was a power play..really nuke India over what? a Pak war? Thats just absurd. How can you trust? well let's see :

Agreed. That was a bluff as far as using nukes is the context.

You can ask them to remove you from the Hi tech dual usage restricted list-- but still no trust

Took ages to happen and with their convenience.

You can ask them to invest in your country - but still not trust

Its not a one way road for either of investment or trust.

you can be in position to able to have nuclear deals w/o NPT - but still not trust

Deal gives both sides what they want. Does India specially have to bow and salute the master for his grace? Have you forgotten the limits to which MMS went to get it done?

you ask them to supply the latest arms to safeguard your security- but still not trust

And yet they charge us more (for same arms) than they do our sworn enemies next door. Good way to earn trust.

you request them to issue more visas ( already I read something close to 68% of visas issued period were to Indians)- but still not trust

There's a simple rule - the one doing it with best quality, time and cost gets to keep the job/business. Who needed and benefitted from cheap technology labor here? Not that I don't see the benefits for the other side (us).

You can ask them to put pressure and threaten Pakistan to stop Kargil from escalating- but still not trust

Like that ever really happened. By the time Nawaz Sharif gave a call to his forces we had recovered most of the areas. The NLI itself wanted badly to go back. Have you seen the Sharif-Musharraf visit's interview of soldiers in hospitals (during Kargil conflict) ?

You can ask them to grant India a UN security seat- but still not trust

They anyways don't see us there in near future. Their real approach is pretty well known. Whats there to acknowledge, lip service? Fine we acknowledge their lip service, Thanks America !!

You can ask them to open their markets to sell Indian exports- but still not trust

Like I said, its not a one way street.

You can seek their hi tech help and their FBI to nail the mumbai attackers as being ISI backed and thus get the WORLD opinion on India's side- but still not trust

When did America nail the Mumbai terror? India and the cases running in US - ones of headley and against ISI have been used by US to pressure Pakistan into co-operation at the Af war issues.

I can go and on what has changed in the last 40 years, I can also say trust but verify - but how does that change the facts that even small snippet I've shown you above- was apparently missed by you and some others?

I believe trust is a mutually created quantity, one side can't trust the other single-handedly for a long time. Both the countries have trust in each other, there is enough foundation for that. But the petty interests and short sighted geo politics for immediate gains has made the trust patchy and relations inconsistent. I don't see how only India is to blame when the Americans have been breast feeding the baby monster next door since decades now. Any help sent to Pak state machinery (for whatever reason) converts into power against India. Its as simple and evident as 2+2 = 4. Do you really think Americans didn't get it before 9/11?

Regards,
Virendra

 

[KS]

US promotes Indian ambitions because they see the CHinese as their next immediate threat and India as the only viable counter to China to Asia.

While some pacifists will agree that India should refuse to be drawn into this, I feel that India must utilise this paranoia on the part of the US to its own benefit because it is in India's interest too to contain China.

I know that when India becomes powerful US may use some other country to counter us...but that is in the future and we should not miss the present for the future. Who knows it may turn out that the US may continue to be friends even ! Stranger things have happened. But as of now China is the concern for both INdia/US and I dont see a reason why we should not jointly work to address this area of concern.

 

[asianobserve]

7 th fleet or aircraft carrier. whatever it was - Nixon did not intend to Nuke India- come on it was a power play..really nuke India over what? a Pak war? Thats just absurd. How can you trust? well let's see :

You can ask them to remove you from the Hi tech dual usage restricted list-- but still no trust
You can ask them to invest in your country - but still not trust
you can be in position to able to have nuclear deals w/o NPT - but still not trust
you ask them to supply the latest arms to safeguard your security- but still not trust
you request them to issue more visas ( already I read something close to 68% of visas issued period were to Indians)- but still not trust
You can ask them to put pressure and threaten Pakistan to stop Kargil from escalating- but still not trust
You can ask them to grant India a UN security seat- but still not trust
You can ask them to open their markets to sell Indian exports- but still not trust
You can seek their hi tech help and their FBI to nail the mumbai attackers as being ISI backed and thus get the WORLD opinion on India's side- but still not trust

I can go and on what has changed in the last 40 years, I can also say trust but verify - but how does that change the facts that even small snippet I've shown you above- was apparently missed by you and some others?

Btw- sorry you took offense to my hard hitting example about the risk of " not forget/ forgive" I stand by it. Its blunt but in context

These guys are the closest you can get to talking to Chavez. Pointless. Next topic.

 

[thakur_ritesh]

You're rethoric is at home on the blame it on the US camp. I'm not surprised. But foreign policy should be conducted in a cold and objective manner. Your emotions, probably owing to your background and education, is fundamentally anti-West, especifically anti-US, and it is getting in the way of objective analysis. You're still lucky though your current Prime Minister had the wisdom to rise through the fog of decades of anti-Western indoctrination and actually orient India in the right direction.

i dont think indian public at large was anti-US, anti-west even in the era of the cold war.

at least publicly there was no such rhetoric which then polarized our opinion, i dont recall any what so ever, in fact we as kids had quite a liking for the country.

so its not just about the present PM, i think almost every indian PM post '91 have had the "wisdom" as you would like to put it. i believe the most pro-US regime india has had was the then PM A B Vajpayee led NDA government ('99-'04), they were the ones under whom the perception took a big change in the diplomatic circles on having much improved relations with the US, and it was under them the extensive indo-US engagement started at the top most level.

 

[amitkriit]

US promotes Indian ambitions because they see the CHinese as their next immediate threat and India as the only viable counter to China to Asia.

While some pacifists may disagree that India should refuse to be drawn into this, I feel that India must utilise this paranoia on the part of the US to its own benefit because it is in India's interest too to contain China.

I know that when India becomes powerful US may use some other country to counter us...but that is in the future and we should not miss the present for the future. Who knows it may turn out that the US may continue to be friends even ! Stranger things have happened. But as of now China is the concern for both INdia/US and I dont see a reason why we should not jointly work to address this area of concern.

I agree, we must use the anti-China sentiments of USA to our advantage, but let's not get carried away.

We must concentrate on solving our problems with China in a honorable manner (doesn't translate into compromising our national interest). Once China bites dust, we are going to be the next target. Don't forget its us who are sitting on top of the Indian Ocean, its us who are planning to be the "big power" in South Asia and the Indian Ocean. Doesn't fit at all into Uncle Sam's plan of world dominance.

USA knows that India and China will be it's greatest competitors in future. Immediate threat comes from China. I smell "Divide and Rule".

 

[The Messiah]

I agree, we must use the anti-China sentiments of USA to our advantage, but let's not get carried away.

We must concentrate on solving our problems with China in a honorable manner (doesn't translate into compromising our national interest). Once China bites dust, we are going to be the next target. Don't forget its us who are sitting on top of the Indian Ocean, its us who are planning to be the "big power" in South Asia and the Indian Ocean. Doesn't fit at all into Uncle Sam's plan of world dominance.

USA knows that India and China will be it's greatest competitors in future. Immediate threat comes from China. I smell "Divide and Rule".

Words of wisdom.

 

[agentperry]

well i see Indian role in future conflict just like that of UK or france in WW2.
countries like vietnam goes into conflict with china. first India ignores. go to uno. everything taken as if tender is being issued or scam being investigated. later chinese turns the heat toward India by attacking arunachal. south asia enters into fight. India in trouble. usa interfere WHEN most of the chinese forces are scattered to tackle asian countries. with limited oppostion and loss usa bailed out world. while countries like India and vietnam and japan are made bali-ka-bakra.

peace to world

 

[no smoking]

I agree, we must use the anti-China sentiments of USA to our advantage, but let's not get carried away.

We must concentrate on solving our problems with China in a honorable manner (doesn't translate into compromising our national interest). Once China bites dust, we are going to be the next target. Don't forget its us who are sitting on top of the Indian Ocean, its us who are planning to be the "big power" in South Asia and the Indian Ocean. Doesn't fit at all into Uncle Sam's plan of world dominance.

USA knows that India and China will be it's greatest competitors in future. Immediate threat comes from China. I smell "Divide and Rule".

First time to see an indian can have such a cold head in international political. Well done, pal.
Even as a Chinese, I have to agree with you: india should take advantage of this oportunity and be careful about each of USA at the meantime.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

First time to see an indian can have such a cold head in international political. Well done, pal.
Even as a Chinese, I have to agree with you: india should take advantage of this oportunity and be careful about each of USA at the meantime.

Or we can be friends and take on the west together in trade and development and assure in a new asian age. Which obviously CCP does not want, pakistan is a lame terrorist nation which is only friends with China becoz it hates India. For goodness sake people why cant your gov see that.

 

[KS]

I agree, we must use the anti-China sentiments of USA to our advantage, but let's not get carried away.

We must concentrate on solving our problems with China in a honorable manner (doesn't translate into compromising our national interest). Once China bites dust, we are going to be the next target. Don't forget its us who are sitting on top of the Indian Ocean, its us who are planning to be the "big power" in South Asia and the Indian Ocean. Doesn't fit at all into Uncle Sam's plan of world dominance.

USA knows that India and China will be it's greatest competitors in future. Immediate threat comes from China. I smell "Divide and Rule".

Yes..but their immediate threat is China and the ally they need is India. They can think that they are using us and we can equally think they we are using them.

But yeah as I said a time may come when they will try to counter us. But that is just a "may" and if we play it smart maybe even we can trump them in this diplomatic chess just like how Indira made a fool of Nixon during the '71 war by some smart moves.

We dont need to under-estimate our prowess (which we are doing terribly now given the fact we are even afraid of puny island nations) and should be confident enough to deal with the US on equal terms for mutual benefits.

All the people who refuse to deal with the US now are not pragmatic but just afraid of the US swamping India. Wake up people. We are niot Pakistan. Be confident in yourself. Only then they will respect you.

LOng before I read an article which precisely captures this fear of India in dealing wth the US titled based on one of our famous myths. If you have time read this - Hanuman syndrome

Or we can be friends and take on the west together in trade and development and assure in a new asian age. Which obviously CCP does not want, pakistan is a lame terrorist nation which is only friends with China becoz it hates India. For goodness sake people why cant your gov see that.

Not happening.

China does not think India as a rival because of its freindship with Pakistan, but rather is friends with Pakistan because it thinks India needs to be contained.

Hindi-Chini Bhai bhai goes into the flush. I would rather trust US than China - anyday,anytime,.