Why the Bramhos should make the PLAN shiver

Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by trackwhack, Jun 30, 2012.

  1. trackwhack

    trackwhack Tihar Jail Banned

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    On 28th March the Bramhos Block 3 with the new steep dive algorithm was tested. As far as I can see there is no air defence system in the world currently capable of stopping the Block 3.

    At 290 km max range, the missiles travel time is approximately 300 seconds assuming it reaches mach 2.8 within the first 10 seconds. This video pretty much confirms it IMO. By the 10th second the missile has disappeared.



    We can only speculate at what range the missile enters steep dive mode but irrespective, it is impossible for any air defence to intercept this missile before steep dive. To intercept the Bramhos before steep dive the air defence missile must have a speed much higher than the Brahmos to reach it before it starts the dive. There is no such missile that would be capable of this feat. We cannot take the THAAD, which in my opinion is the most advanced anti ballistic system, but like the name says it is a High Altitude air defence system. Even if it were capable of low altitude intercepts, assuming the Bramhos started its descent at half its range, i.e. about 150 km, it gives the THAAD approximately 160 seconds to take it down. That would be detecting launch, acquiring the target, firing the missile and covering a range of 150 km in 160 seconds. I cannot see how that is possible especially with ship based radars taking time to detect the launch, ie, the Bramhos has to actually reach a certain altitude before the air defence radars come within line of sight of the missile and the target is acquired. Dedicated naval air defence systems on the other hand do not reach anywhere close to the speed of the THAAD and hence cannot cover the range in time. Additionally they have range limitations and are designed for closer intercept ranges of between 50 and 100 km. Hence there is no way the Bramhos can ever get intercepted pre steep dive mode.

    Once in steep dive however the air defence radars are again blind, upto ... wait for it 20 KM on the most advanced systems at the altitude that the Bramhos is approaching at, which btw can be as low as 10m in sea skimming mode. At 20 km distance when the air defence system acquires the target, they have exactly 20 seconds to shoot it down because the Bramhos is coming at them at 1km/sec.

    The PLAN destroyers have the HHQ-9, the Chinese naval version of the S-300's.

    Good luck PLAN.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
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  3. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    There are many supersonic missiles in the world.

    Aster, Barak and Sea Sparrow are known to stop such missiles.
     
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  4. trackwhack

    trackwhack Tihar Jail Banned

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    All of them have range limitations and cannot take the Bramhos out before steep dive and have only 20 seconds to engage Bramhos after steep dive when it comes within radar range again.
     
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  5. captonjohn

    captonjohn Regular Member

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    I agree, 20 seconds is very inadequate time to detect, acquire a target, launch a missile than destroy it. I would be nearly impossible for any current known ABS systems except few most advanced systems and I doubt China has such capability to destroy such missile.
     
  6. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Barak can't even stop old Chinese ASMs much less Brahmos. Sea Sparrow can't do it, maybe Evolved Sea Sparrow (ESSM) can but it hasn't been validated against Coyote targets. Only Aster and late block Standard missiles have done it.
     
  7. trackwhack

    trackwhack Tihar Jail Banned

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    have done what? the aster on the sea viper tests could not shoot down a low flying drone. how the hell is it gonna shoot down a mach 3 sea skimming missile in 20 seconds?
     
  8. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    well air defence has better chance to stop brahmos in anti ship mode then land base version for the reason sea is flat, and it is greater chance to intercept, once radar get lock on to it provided computrs are fast enough. When steep dive mode when brahmos is cruising just above tree top hight it is very very difficult to intercpet, when you will find it will reach target.
     
  9. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    That's because you missed Pack Leader's comments on Barak 8. Two Brahmos were launched against it and the kill ratio was greater than 90% for both. One missile was stopped, the other was affected by shrapnel.

    According to him the MF-Star can detect the Brahmos from 80 Km away on a Destroyer or 50Km on a Frigate.

    20 seconds is a lot of time. The engagement time is 2-3 seconds for such missiles.

    Other missiles are merely older, that's all.

    I should have said Evolved Sea Sparrow, Aster 30 and Barak 8. I did not mention them accurately because it was 4 in the morning and I was sleepy.
     
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  10. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Barak can easily stop Exocet and Harpoon. It can obviously stop the C-802 that PAF has procured for JF-17 and PN for the F-22P Firgates.

    Now, whether it can stop supersonic Chinese missiles, we don't know. But that's what Barak 8 is for. If it can stop Brahmos, then it can definitely stop Klub and Moskit types that China uses.

    I would say the biggest advantage Brahmos has is that it can maneuver. I don't know to what extent, but unlike Sunburn, Brahmos can at least perform an S maneuver.

    Coyote does not even compare to Brahmos. Max 10G maneuvers and at a distance of only 50Km, I doubt it can even change it's path in such a short range.
     
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  11. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    It didn't stop sub sonic chini missiles from hitting Israeli warships so that is misplaced faith.

    Who says it can stop Brahmos? It has never been tested against that type of missile.

    Chinis have little chance of stopping it so expect many PLAN ships at the bottom.

    It does maneuver and it only needs a range long enough to test air defences. It is a target, not live weapon.
     
  12. Apollyon

    Apollyon Führer Senior Member

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    The SAM p2p is talking about is Barak 8 (Indo-Israeli JV, seeker from Israel and dual pulse motor from India) and it's range is > 80km.
    Where as the Israeli ship which was hit by C-802 was carrying Barak 1, it's a point defencse system with max range of 5.5km. :rolleyes:

    Edit: Submarine Launched version of Brahmos will be tested in October
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2012
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  13. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Barak 2 is just a boosted Barak 1 with an improved seeker and data link. The name change to Barak 8 without 7 previous versions is rather comical.
     
  14. tony4562

    tony4562 Tihar Jail Banned

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    HQ-16 missiles installed on 054A (traveling at mach 3) and HQ-9 missiles (mach 4.5) installed on 052C are specifically designed to intercept sea-skimming super-sonic missiles like Yakhont (export model rebranded as Brahmos).
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2012
  15. Apollyon

    Apollyon Führer Senior Member

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    there are 2 versions, one Barak 8 and another Barak 8 ER ,
    and there's a lot of difference between Barak 1 and Barak 8 like different dual pulse motor, different seeker and different design ... :p

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    That is S-300 Rif

     
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  17. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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  18. tony4562

    tony4562 Tihar Jail Banned

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    Russia probably has long told China every detail about weapons they sold to India. Why wouldn't they? Sell India 1 billion worth of hardware and then sell China another 200 million worth of ducumentation. That's 200 million extra in pockets, and absolutely no russian interests at stake.
     
  19. tony4562

    tony4562 Tihar Jail Banned

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    That's a HHQ-9 launhed from a 052C ship, with 6 x 6 revolver launcher in the front, and 2x 6 launcher in the after structure. S300 is only installed on the 2 051C ships with 2x8 revolver launher in front of the bridge and 4x8 cell launcher in the back.

    051C:
    [​IMG]

    Now compare with 052C

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. ice berg

    ice berg Senior Member Senior Member

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    In reality there are system vs system, not platform vs platform. Only fanboys will believe in invincible weapons. I find all those wonder weapon threads to be rather boring. :cool2:
     
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  21. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    because of some strange reason Russian has more then hundred of nukes pointing at China and non against India.
     

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