Why soldiers get 50% Pension

Discussion in 'Members Corner' started by Ray, Apr 11, 2014.

  1. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    No one has been able to explain to me why young men & women serve in the Military for 20 years or more, risking their lives protecting your freedom, &.....only get 50% of their pay.....on retirement.

    While Politicians hold their political positions in the safe confines of the capital,> protected by these same men & women, and receive Full-Pay retirement after serving one (1) term.

    It just does not make any sense.

    *****************************

    Can some one explain?
     
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  3. aragorn

    aragorn Senior Member Senior Member

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    Soldiers are not a vote bank

    politicians make the law. they are making it so that benefits to their kind...
     
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  4. indiatester

    indiatester Regular Member

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    Bigger pool sir. We have a million strong army and a bigger pool of retired soldiers (23 lakhs). When you calculate that it will turn up to be a pretty decent dent in the budget (Rs 116,000 crores! in 2013 budget). Where as the same for about 543 MP's would be only about 50 crores. Even if you assume 10x MP's drawing pension, it can go to 500 crores.
     
  5. CCP

    CCP Senior Member Senior Member

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    No war in near future.
     
  6. Eastman

    Eastman Regular Member

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    Their is no free meal, full pay for their service, half pay as compensation, more over they can join civil service after military service and still enjoy the pension along with current pay 'at the current paygrade', which is an added advantage.
     
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  7. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    No, they can't join civil service after retirement.
     
  8. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    India: Military Budget 2013-14: Giant with Feet of Clay - South Asia Citizens Web

    Manpower Augmentation

    In 2000, army chief V P Malik announced 50,000 soldiers would be reduced over two years by not filling vacancies in non-combat jobs. No one even talks about this anymore. Much worse, in 2007, the CAG reported that 33,000 soldiers had been recruited above the authorised strength by the army, which claimed that it had erred in estimating “wastages” – retirements, desertions, failures in training, discharges on medical grounds, and deaths (Hindu, 26 May 2007). Now more than 89,000 men and 400 officers are to be recruited by the army to fill posts in the new Mountain Strike Corps, headquartered at Panagarh in West Bengal, to be deployed along the border with China, along with two mountain divisions that are being raised during the Twelfth Plan period. There are also reports about two armoured brigades being raised for Nathu La in Sikkim and Chusu in Ladakh, besides an infantry brigade for the middle sector, the Barahut plains of Uttarakhand. All this is at an estimated cost of Rs 65,000 crore, and does not include the two new infantry divisions raised in Lekhapani and Missamari in Assam in 2009-10.

    The strength of the three services is now 1.3 million. If the one million in the central paramilitary forces (CPMFs) is added, the armed forces with 2.3 million accounts for nearly half of all central government employees, estimated to be 4.7 million in 2013 (which includes 1.3 million railway and 4,80,000 postal employees). Consider this to get an idea of the rapidity of employment generation in the armed forces – in 2012, the strength of CPMFs was 8,70,000, but it is slated to rise to one million in 2013. Compared to the Indian Railways (stagnant) or the postal department (marginal increase), the most employment generation in government services is taking place in the military sector. For example, the Indo-Tibetan Border Police (ITBP) had 1,500 personnel in 1962, 77,000 in 2012, and it will be 89,000 by 2015. Phenomenal growth indeed.

    This has fiscal implications. At present, the estimated outgo on pay, allowances, and miscellaneous expenses of army, navy and air force personnel stands at Rs 63,037 crore out of the Rs 1,12,223 crore allocated to them. If we add the Rs 44,500 crore set aside for defence pensions, the wage bill for the three forces goes up to Rs 1,07,500 crore. Add to this the Rs 33,733.82 crore allocated to CPMFs, and 45% of the pension outgo of Rs 20,049 crore for central government employees (minus defence and railways), which works out to Rs 9,500 crore. We then see that the total wage and pension burden on the exchequer for the military sector is Rs 1,50,734 crore.

    At least four corps of the Indian army, corps III and IV in the north-east and XV and XVI (the largest of them) in Jammu and Kashmir, are engaged in internal security operations. Eighty per cent of the nearly one million-strong CPMFs are deployed for internal duties. For instance, the Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) has 85 battalions fighting Maoists and 62 battalions in Jammu and Kashmir. To put it another way, more than 50% of the armed forces are engaged, one way or another, in internal security. There are ways to prevent conflicts escalating into physical fights. And even if a fight breaks out, it is possible to prevent it from escalating through means other than military. Could exploring other options have prevented augmentation of the armed forces?

    It is also known that every war zone in India sees a new force being raised. For instance, the situation in Jammu and Kashmir saw the emergence of the Rashtriya Rifles with more than 66 battalions. Now that militancy has abated if official accounts are to be believed, why have they not been disbanded? When left-wing extremism became the new internal security threat, a unit called Commando Battalion for Resolute Action (COBRA) emerged within the CRPF as a special force to be used against the Maoists. Now the central government has a new plan of raising a Greyhound force in Jharkhand, Chhattisgarh and Odisha at a cost of Rs 750 crore over the next five years. Going by past practice, none of these new formations will be disbanded even if left-wing extremism ceases to be a big threat.

    Tragically, there is a paucity of analysis of what it would mean if there was less military suppression and more political will to find democratic solutions to internal conflicts. As a result, we do not know how many lives or how much money the country could have saved, or what benefits would have accrued if the same resources had been used for more productive ends. It is striking that in India there is no peace movement worth its name campaigning for ending wars against our own people. There appears to be a preference for symbolic campaigns such as the one against the Armed Forces (Special Powers) Act (AFSPA), which waters down the demand for its repeal with attempts to “humanise” it. But there is no campaign against the impunity enjoyed by the armed forces, which will remain even without the AFSPA. The links between wars at home and the AFSPA are also avoided.

    If there were fewer battalions of CPMFs waging wars against our own people, there would be a lower wage bill and less loss of civilian and combatant lives. If the government pursues dialogue and a no-war agenda at home, people could find less reason to take to arms. Or if the state had ensured the prosecution of Hindutva activists right at the beginning, it would have undercut the appeal of fascist groups among both Hindus and Muslims. Hindutva formations would not have felt encouraged to carry on with their divisive game, and Muslim groups would not have been able to use victimhood as a justification for revenge. While we cannot turn the clock back, it is worth realising that a preoccupation with military suppression, strong-arm methods, and an unequal application of the law has undermined our constitutional democracy, and spawned a culture where hawks, jingoists, and chauvinists have a field day.

    Be that as it may, as the armed forces gain in strength, they also stake claims for more power and pelf. It is no accident that the Intelligence Bureau (IB) and CPMFs have demanded a 5% reservation for the children of all serving and retired personnel in government-run professional and technical institutions. As a spokesman put it,

    We are raising this demand as part of welfare measures for Central Armed Police Forces (CAPFs) who are engaged in counter-insurgency and anti-Naxal duties across the country. It will help lift the morale of the personnel battling on internal security fronts. Efforts have been on from last year itself (Hindustan Times, 10 November 2012).

    The CPMFs also want that every member who dies in action to be considered a shahid (martyr) and receive the same benefits that army personnel receive when they are either disabled or die in the line of duty. When the union government recently reduced the number of cooking gas cylinders for a family to six, the CPMFs protested and demanded that they be treated on a par with soldiers who get subsidised cooking gas. Their argument was, “We are also fighting a war” (Times of India, 2 November 2012).

    Glorifying the ignoble wars against people provides a fig leaf for those who desire more money, authority and power. Thus the duplication of the work of the civil administration by the security forces, if not their replacement, in conflict areas is not fortuitous, but a sign of their growing clout.
     
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  9. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    @Ray

    Considering above what should be the pension ?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  10. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    The pension should be what it is.

    However, the MPs and all other Govt servants should also be on a scale that is applied to the Armed Forces.

    Level playing field.
     
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  11. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

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    Sir,

    You are looking for a logical answer, and I have not the slightest of the doubts that the bureaucracy would have a logical reasoning as well. May be they say that the others put in 30 plus years in service as compared, and as you sighted, 20 odd years for someone in the armed forces, and for the political class they must not be making any sort of comparison. It is an assumption I am throwing in. The pension for the political class must have been under a bill that would not be regulated by the common pension law for others, or some special provisions within the law.

    I would rather suggest that you look at the flow of power structure. In India, it centers around the political class, the bureaucracy, and the business community, and these are the people who most benefit for they are either directly involved in decision making, or influence it. The Indian Army, unlike it's contemporary in Pakistan, the Pakistan Army, has historically never had direct access to power, so they never had the cake and the cherry, and eat it too.

    Look across the board, and it's not just the armed forces, but pretty much everyone other than a few who suffer in some form or the other. Doctors in India are few of the most neglected lot, overseas, the most sort after.
     
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  12. Eastman

    Eastman Regular Member

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    Bye Bye DFI
    Oops sorry wrong words used, I mean to say civilian job, government sector or private sector, their he can be both a pensioner and a salary holder and enjoy the payband as he have left in Armed force, after all why retire from life when some one have the caliber, pension is earned, it is not a gift for service from the authority. Plus if you are getting a pay that you will be receiving after your retirement then you are being under payed :truestory:
     
  13. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    While you have a point, I would like to say that one should have people in the Armed Forces who are committed to the Service and not merely use the Army as a means to earn the bread and then quit for fresher pasture.

    Such an attitude will only encourage mercenary outlook and that is not ideal to build the psychology where one would not hesitate to lay down one's life for the Nation,

    Therefore, ideally a better pay and pension is necessary. But then, the country may not have the means and the people realise that. Therefore, if there is a common minimum denominator for all, one does not or cannot grudge.

    More so, when all know that the MPs get hefty pay, perks and manipulate and accumulate pelf and they do fanny adams of work.
     
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  14. TrueSpirit1

    TrueSpirit1 The Nobody Banned

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    Sorry, I did not get this.

    My notion is: Doctors in India are held in the highest esteem, next to God. Everyone, no matter how highly-placed in the power hierarchy, owes it to them in some way or the other, so they are direct beneficiaries of this patronage. They are member of influential clubs & move along with "movers & shakers" of the system.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2014
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  15. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    Doctors are the most neglected of the govt. Show me one policy of the govt which was meant to help doctors?:rolleyes:

    I actually wanted to quote that line and write how true it is but then I dint want to derail the thread. But I could not hold myself any more after seeing your post

    Medicine is the only profession in the world where asking to be paid for your work is seen as evil.
     
  16. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    US Congressman gets retirement for life, free medical care etc after one (1) term. Politicians are the same everywhere, and I would include all socialist and communists.
    José Millán Astray
     
  17. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    Can you shed some light on the scales and amount of pension a US soldier gets after serving for period of say 20 to 25 years in the military.
     
  18. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    What I remember is 50% after 20 years; pension would increase with years >20. But let me post a link.

    Pay and Calculators for Army Retirement Services
     
  19. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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  20. TrueSpirit1

    TrueSpirit1 The Nobody Banned

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    Even if it is asking for the moon, "free lunch" has many takers.
     
  21. EXPERT

    EXPERT Regular Member

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    I would say that the pension should be given according to his or her Service Record . Either he was deployed for C.S operation, or for any other operation.But not for those Babus, Clerks, and those who spend their all term in Headquarters without knowing the ground situation.

    and the CPMF should be treated equal to Army, and facilities should be equal.
     

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