Why shouldn't we build a wall on western border?

ezsasa

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After Israel built the 30ft concrete wall on the west bank side of the border it has been reported that infiltration and sniper fire incidents were reduced by 99% . Why should n't we do the same along PAK border?

It is no longer the case we have to think twice before spending a large amount of money on such activities. In all probability it would more or less cost the same as building a metro in a small city would n't it? Cement technology it seems to have improved recently, I am told now a days cement setting time and water required can be reduced by 50%. inter-lockable concrete slabs should do the trick,15 inch thick reinforced concrete slabs should do the job would n't it? In case of damage just replace the damaged set of blocks, Infact if they are damaged from other side we can have "concrete" :rolleyes: proof of firing and shelling from other side.

I do not have too much details regarding the terrain but a 30-35ft wall would reduce the gunfire issues and border crossing issues to an extent. Only issue remains will be with higher terrain over looking the wall and mortar fire.

In my opinion there is nothing more defensive than building a wall.would n't it be worth the peace of mind?
 

Kshatriya87

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This is an idea that many government professionals as well as civilian citizens wonder about. There are many problems associated with building a wall. The few that come to my mind are as follows;

1. Israel's border with Gaza is negligible as compared to thousands of km long border between India and Pakistan.
2. The amount of time taken for building a wall can very well reach in decades.
3. The amount of resources and manpower required will be huge. Yes, this will increase employment and business for Indians but ultimately we have to pay for it. Very expensive.
4. The border ranging from Gujarat till southern Kashmir can be feasible for building a wall. However, the region beyond that consists of terrains that are difficult even to scale by our troops without gear. Building a wall there would mean trying to achieve a task near to impossible. (Don't bring great wall of china here, that terrain is nothing as compared to this).
5. Considering that we do build a wall, we will have to build intermediate gates for understandable reasons. This also means that Pakistani side will know the limited locations from where we can breach in with tanks, armoured vehicles, artillery etc. These gates will be heavily protected from the other side.
6. This nullifies our chances of success in programs like CSD which involves surprise and deep hammer attacks.
 

ramakrishna

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This is an idea that many government professionals as well as civilian citizens wonder about. There are many problems associated with building a wall. The few that come to my mind are as follows;

1. Israel's border with Gaza is negligible as compared to thousands of km long border between India and Pakistan.
2. The amount of time taken for building a wall can very well reach in decades.
3. The amount of resources and manpower required will be huge. Yes, this will increase employment and business for Indians but ultimately we have to pay for it. Very expensive.
4. The border ranging from Gujarat till southern Kashmir can be feasible for building a wall. However, the region beyond that consists of terrains that are difficult even to scale by our troops without gear. Building a wall there would mean trying to achieve a task near to impossible. (Don't bring great wall of china here, that terrain is nothing as compared to this).
5. Considering that we do build a wall, we will have to build intermediate gates for understandable reasons. This also means that Pakistani side will know the limited locations from where we can breach in with tanks, armoured vehicles, artillery etc. These gates will be heavily protected from the other side.
6. This nullifies our chances of success in programs like CSD which involves surprise and deep hammer attacks.
very informative, thus the case dismissed ....
 

swastic_1170

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This is an idea that many government professionals as well as civilian citizens wonder about. There are many problems associated with building a wall. The few that come to my mind are as follows;

1. Israel's border with Gaza is negligible as compared to thousands of km long border between India and Pakistan.
2. The amount of time taken for building a wall can very well reach in decades.
3. The amount of resources and manpower required will be huge. Yes, this will increase employment and business for Indians but ultimately we have to pay for it. Very expensive.
4. The border ranging from Gujarat till southern Kashmir can be feasible for building a wall. However, the region beyond that consists of terrains that are difficult even to scale by our troops without gear. Building a wall there would mean trying to achieve a task near to impossible. (Don't bring great wall of china here, that terrain is nothing as compared to this).
5. Considering that we do build a wall, we will have to build intermediate gates for understandable reasons. This also means that Pakistani side will know the limited locations from where we can breach in with tanks, armoured vehicles, artillery etc. These gates will be heavily protected from the other side.
6. This nullifies our chances of success in programs like CSD which involves surprise and deep hammer attacks.
Nice reply man.. You have put it forward so accurately.
 

Sambha ka Boss

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This is an idea that many government professionals as well as civilian citizens wonder about. There are many problems associated with building a wall. The few that come to my mind are as follows;

1. Israel's border with Gaza is negligible as compared to thousands of km long border between India and Pakistan.
2. The amount of time taken for building a wall can very well reach in decades.
3. The amount of resources and manpower required will be huge. Yes, this will increase employment and business for Indians but ultimately we have to pay for it. Very expensive.
4. The border ranging from Gujarat till southern Kashmir can be feasible for building a wall. However, the region beyond that consists of terrains that are difficult even to scale by our troops without gear. Building a wall there would mean trying to achieve a task near to impossible. (Don't bring great wall of china here, that terrain is nothing as compared to this).
5. Considering that we do build a wall, we will have to build intermediate gates for understandable reasons. This also means that Pakistani side will know the limited locations from where we can breach in with tanks, armoured vehicles, artillery etc. These gates will be heavily protected from the other side.
6. This nullifies our chances of success in programs like CSD which involves surprise and deep hammer attacks.
I believe multilayered border fencing will be fine.
 

Kshatriya87

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I believe multilayered border fencing will be fine.
Yes, it will work fine against insurgents. It has been proven already with our existing fence. But not for the reasons that "poster" has asked here. He wants to stop cross border firing.
 

Kshatriya87

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Why not allow citizens in border states to be heavily armed better than a wall.
Not a good idea. I am personally against giving weapons to civilians unless some group or country has completely breached our borders and cities. Civilians tend to be volatile with weapons in their hands. They could be used in protests & against our own forces. Besides, weapons without training won't help much.
 
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Not a good idea. I am personally against giving weapons to civilians unless some group or country has completely breached our borders and cities. Civilians tend to be volatile with weapons in their hands. They could be used in protests & against our own forces. Besides, weapons without training won't help much.
Give guns keep control over bullets supplied. Civilians are mobile walls are not
Get past wall you are in ,get past one civilian the next one might blow your head off.
During USA 's revolutionary war civilians played an active role. Civilians in northeastern
States should be a starting point.
 

Blackwater

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Why should we???

let pakis made wall itna gaand dalo waha pe
 

ezsasa

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This is an idea that many government professionals as well as civilian citizens wonder about. There are many problems associated with building a wall. The few that come to my mind are as follows;

1. Israel's border with Gaza is negligible as compared to thousands of km long border between India and Pakistan.
2. The amount of time taken for building a wall can very well reach in decades.
3. The amount of resources and manpower required will be huge. Yes, this will increase employment and business for Indians but ultimately we have to pay for it. Very expensive.
4. The border ranging from Gujarat till southern Kashmir can be feasible for building a wall. However, the region beyond that consists of terrains that are difficult even to scale by our troops without gear. Building a wall there would mean trying to achieve a task near to impossible. (Don't bring great wall of china here, that terrain is nothing as compared to this).
5. Considering that we do build a wall, we will have to build intermediate gates for understandable reasons. This also means that Pakistani side will know the limited locations from where we can breach in with tanks, armoured vehicles, artillery etc. These gates will be heavily protected from the other side.
6. This nullifies our chances of success in programs like CSD which involves surprise and deep hammer attacks.
Good points,I guess we are not ready for this thought process yet.
Let us hope we never get into a situation where we have to build a wall.
 

datguy79

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This won't happen simply because a wall bins India's cold start doctrine.
 

Virendra

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Why not allow citizens in border states to be heavily armed better than a wall.
Arming the citizenry against external enemies is a good idea, but only when they're to be used as last line of defence thwarting an attack and only when they've been armed with reasonably good weapons.
This arrangement is more apt for people in border regions from logistics point of view as well.
Even for them, there should be a proper training programme and a responsible Gun culture needs to be bred, before we start handing out fire-arms.
That will ensure mistakes of any kind are minimized. But I do agree that a border civilian who is vigilant, educated with & owning a fire-arm is an asset.
Key point is - Possessing a fire-arm is as much a responsibility, as it is a right.

Regards,
Virendra
 
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Arming the citizenry against external enemies is a good idea, but only when they're to be used as last line of defence thwarting an attack and only when they've been armed with reasonably good weapons.
This arrangement is more apt for people in border regions from logistics point of view as well.
Even for them, there should be a proper training programme and a responsible Gun culture needs to be bred, before we start handing out fire-arms.
That will ensure mistakes of any kind are minimized. But I do agree that a border civilian who is vigilant, educated with & owning a fire-arm is an asset.
Key point is - Possessing a fire-arm is as much a responsibility, as it is a right.

Regards,
Virendra

I agree virendra there should be protocols of training and supplies. Why should
People in border areas be sitting ducks? They have every right to defend themselves.
 

ezsasa

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Even though "Right to bear arms" (Article 1 - Sec. 32) is part of the Indian constitution , It is not encouraged simply because of the lack of infrastructure to control the fallout if they are available freely. I would be against guns being freely available to citizens. In case they are freely available we know what is happening in Pakistan because of availability of guns.

However IA had encouraged and formed "Village defence commitees" in border districts by providing arms for self-defence. there have success stories from VDC concept. Unfortunately i have no info if this policy still continues or not.
 

Simple_Guy

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We can also create a 20-30 kilometer buffer zone inside spitistan......no puke citizen or soldier permitted in the zone. Area saturated by Indian air and land patrols.

Let jungles and wildlife flourish in this zone. This will become Pakistan's first ever contribution to the world environment.
 

ramakrishna

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Even though "Right to bear arms" (Article 1 - Sec. 32) is part of the Indian constitution , It is not encouraged simply because of the lack of infrastructure to control the fallout if they are available freely. I would be against guns being freely available to citizens. In case they are freely available we know what is happening in Pakistan because of availability of guns.

However IA had encouraged and formed "Village defence commitees" in border districts by providing arms for self-defence. there have success stories from VDC concept. Unfortunately i have no info if this policy still continues or not.
forget pakistan man ... how about UP ... there are many incidents where people used their guns .....
 

ramakrishna

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We can also create a 20-30 kilometer buffer zone inside spitistan......no puke citizen or soldier permitted in the zone. Area saturated by Indian air and land patrols.

Let jungles and wildlife flourish in this zone. This will become Pakistan's first ever contribution to the world environment.
and pakis will get trained in guerilla thingy and they easily sneak into the wild life to enter our borders .. haha ... not a good option ... IMO
 

Simple_Guy

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They are already sneaking in across a fenced and heavily mined border.

Creating a buffer zone will deny them launch pads, artillery support, and paki army support. It will also save our border villages from the enemy shelling.
 

ezsasa

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After Israel built the 30ft concrete wall on the west bank side of the border it has been reported that infiltration and sniper fire incidents were reduced by 99% . Why should n't we do the same along PAK border?

It is no longer the case we have to think twice before spending a large amount of money on such activities. In all probability it would more or less cost the same as building a metro in a small city would n't it? Cement technology it seems to have improved recently, I am told now a days cement setting time and water required can be reduced by 50%. inter-lockable concrete slabs should do the trick,15 inch thick reinforced concrete slabs should do the job would n't it? In case of damage just replace the damaged set of blocks, Infact if they are damaged from other side we can have "concrete" :rolleyes: proof of firing and shelling from other side.

I do not have too much details regarding the terrain but a 30-35ft wall would reduce the gunfire issues and border crossing issues to an extent. Only issue remains will be with higher terrain over looking the wall and mortar fire.

In my opinion there is nothing more defensive than building a wall.would n't it be worth the peace of mind?
Just opening an old OP, just to test out whether my old post has gained any traction now-a-days...

http://www.defencenews.in/article/I...-type-border-fence-to-keep-the-Pakis-out-2338


NEW DELHI: An Israel-type highly secured fencing may come up along the Indo-Pak border to check infiltration from across the border as the government is exploring the possibility of installing such a barrier in the sensitive frontiers of Punjab and Jammu.

In the wake of Pathankot terror attack, which was carried out by the Pakistan-based JeM terrorists after crossing the border, the issue of ensuring zero infiltration along the Indo-Pak border was discussed in several meetings attended by top government functionaries, including Home Minister Rajnath Singh and NSA Ajit Doval.

"In one of these meetings, they discussed whether India can adopt an Israel-type border guarding mechanism along the western frontier," a Home Ministry official said.

Interestingly, in November 2014, the Home Minister had visited one of the border outposts in Gaza and was "greatly impressed" by the technology used in the highly sophisticated border security system of Israel which includes high-quality long-range day cameras along with night observation systems employing third generation thermal imagers.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had reportedly told Singh that Israel was "ready and willing" to share with India its technology for border protection.

Israel is hailed to have the best border protection system in the world, and depends more on technology than humans to protect its border.

The technology includes high-quality long-range day cameras along with night observation systems, third generation thermal imagers, long-range detection radars, electronic touch and motion sensors on the fence as well as underground sensors to detect any tunnelling attempts.

The Israeli border fencing along West Bank, Gaza and Egypt also consists of latticed steel, topped and edged with razor wire, extending at least two metres below ground and in some sections reaching seven metres above the ground.

Ditches and observation posts with cameras and antennae will line the route.

An electronic pulse will run through the fence, setting off an alarm on contact that will allow security guards to locate the exact spot of attempted infiltration.

A sandy tracking path shows the footprints of infiltrators and an military patrol road gives unhindered access to army units.

Singh was also given a detailed briefing by the Israeli Army about the border-guarding mechanism put in place.

The Home Minister was told that in certain "dark areas" where fencing was not possible, like on India-Pakistan border as well, Israel had used small UAVs for security coverage.

Besides, every border post on the Israel border is a self-sufficient unit.

Recently, Hungary and Bulgaria have turned to Israel for advice on building a fence modelled on the one set up on the southern Israeli border with Egypt to stop influx of refugees.

The US, India and other countries have sent delegations to Israel in the past to examine the innovations involved in the barrier.
 

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