Why Pakistan is a better bet for the Valley than India is

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by Yusuf, Aug 11, 2010.

  1. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Hurriyat leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani has appealed to Kashmiris to celebrate August 14 - the day Pakistan was founded - while observing August 15, India's Independence Day, as a "black day". At the height of the recent spiral of violence that began in mid-June in the Valley and so far has claimed 50 lives, Geelani showed his preference for Pakistan over India. The Hurriyat chief said that there was little or 'no room for the third option of independence' and that Kashmiris would have to choose between India and Pakistan. Geelani's own choice was clear: he would opt for Pakistan.

    Dismissing Geelani as an obvious mouthpiece for Islamabad, Indian analysts have said that, thanks to the stringent counter-measures taken by New Delhi, Pakistan had been forced to modify its earlier strategy of cross-border terrorism in Kashmir and instead resort to fomenting mass demonstrations in the Valley. When security forces fired at stone-throwing protesters, they exposed New Delhi to the charge of human rights abuse. Pakistan's game plan seems to be to orchestrate such confrontations till Barack Obama's India visit in November, thus compromising New Delhi's Kashmir policy in the eyes of the international community. That innocent people, including women and children, have been killed as a result is unlikely to trouble Islamabad's conscience. Or, for that matter, the conscience of its loyal supporter, Syed Geelani.

    The reasons behind the Hurriyat chief's espousal of Pakistan - at any cost - are clear to see. Under Indian rule, Kashmir has long been under army occupation, with the inevitable loss of civil liberties that this entails. Under Pakistani rule, liberated Kashmir will not be singled out for such discriminatory treatment. For the simple reason that not just Kashmir but all of Pakistan will be - as it always has been, since inception - under de facto military rule, flirtations with cosmetic democracy notwithstanding.

    Pakistan has long realised that democracy is a delicate plant, susceptible to many blights such as rigged polls and sectarian politics, ills which have plagued India's Kashmir. Pakistan-occupied Kashmir - or Azad Kashmir as it calls itself - has never had to suffer such afflictions because Islamabad very prudently has never introduced democracy to its pure and unpolluted soil. No democracy, no rigged elections, or political infighting. That's what the 'Azad' in Azad Kashmir means - azadi from the diseases of democracy.

    Then take education and employment opportunities. After all these years, New Delhi has failed to set up a single IIT, or IIM, or any such educational institution in the Valley. The result has been that Kashmiri youth are often ill-equipped to find desirable jobs and make rewarding careers for themselves in an increasingly competitive world.

    Pakistan, on the other hand, has an enviable track record of establishing specialised training institutions all over the country, including in Azad Kashmir. These state-sponsored institutions impart practical and theoretical training to young people of both genders to pursue careers in what many claim is the fastest growing industry in the world today: terrorism. Pakistan is acknowledged to be the world leader in the global promotion of an industry which guarantees young people a necessarily brief but fulfilling career, with retirement benefits that include a one-way ticket to Paradise.

    It is for these and similarly compelling reasons that Geelani and his followers want to align with Pakistan. However, if they do so, they'll lose out on one score. Kashmir has always been famed for its wool, which goes into the making of its world-renowned shawls and carpets. If it does ever side with Pakistan, Kashmir stands to lose the wool: the wool that Islamabad has successfully pulled all these years over the eyes of Kashmiris like Syed Geelani.
     
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  3. pankaj nema

    pankaj nema Senior Member Senior Member

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    I would request ALL kashmiris to please FORGET ABOUT PAKISTAN. We KNOW very well that you kashmiris want to join Pakistan.
    But we cannot allow that to happen.No matter what.

    India would NEVER allow Kashmir or any state to secede.

    No nation in the history of this world , has ever given up its territory just because the people dont want to stay. Nation loose territory in WAR.

    A nation and its people would become the laughing stock of the world if it would give up its land .
     
  4. JBH22

    JBH22 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Geelani move your fugly butt there why bother us with your desires the land remain our no matter the cost. UPA has fail us on all the grounds they are such losers kashmir unrest.naxalite,N-E insurgency,terror attacks..:angry_1:
     
  5. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Actually no. Most Kashmiris are comfortable with only two ideas. Independence or stay with India. Its only Geelani who wants the only solution to be acceding to Pakistan. That is the reason why he does not have any support in Kashmir. Not mass at least.
     
  6. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    Are you Stupid ? Seriously ?

    The article is satirical. And please go through surveys and polling results, Kashmiris are either pro-India or pro-Independence not pro-Pakistan !

    Please don't fall for BS or propagate it.
     
  7. Iamanidiot

    Iamanidiot Elite Member Elite Member

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    Can anyone tell me in How and what manner Ksahmir can survive as an independent considering its terrain,topogarphy and lack of sea board?.Why is this Azaadi being entertained
     
  8. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    JP, there are many land locked countries in the world who survive. But the case of Kashmir is different. It legally acceded to India. Its people were under the Dogra rulers for over a 100 years and they did not protest his rule. So when he signed up with India, his people were obliged to follow that decision. It was Pakistan who created a dispute and incited the Kashmiris.
     
  9. Iamanidiot

    Iamanidiot Elite Member Elite Member

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    Yusuf if India or Pakistan chooses to enforce a blockade of kashmir valley what happens.They have to be either in pakistan or in india no middle-ground
     
  10. pankaj nema

    pankaj nema Senior Member Senior Member

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    No sir I am not stupid. And Neither is the Indian government .Because we all know that Kashmiris want TO SECEDE AND JOIN PAKISTAN.
    Kashmiris might say Azadi " but it means Pakistan." Kashmir cannot survive as an independent country.
    Everybody knows it ,including pakistan and kashmiris.
     
  11. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Pankaj you can google up and check for any poll report about what Kashmiris think. First option is independence and second is stay with India.
     
  12. pankaj nema

    pankaj nema Senior Member Senior Member

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    If pakistan was NOT INTERESTED in Kashmir , then why they have wasted such huge resources in trying to capture it.And fought wars for it.

    Infact Pakistan has subordinated its economic development to the Kashmir cause, so much that its economy is in shambles. Creating Militancy and extremism for capturing Kashmir was also A Gamble which backfired.
     
  13. sandeepdg

    sandeepdg Senior Member Senior Member

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    It is only fools like Geelani who propagate the idea of 'AZAADI' and acceding to Pakistan !! There's no way that the state of Kashmir can survive as a independent state, it will always be dependent on either of the countries for all its essential needs, and with the state of affairs in Pakistan, where there has been no government assistance to people ravaged by floods, should be a reminder to all those of the fate that they have in store if they think of acceding !! And anyway, being a legitimate state of the Indian Union, there can be no talk of any independence.
     
  14. neo29

    neo29 Senior Member Senior Member

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    GoI can arrest him for anti national activities, there are provisions in the law book for anti national activities.

    IF only somebody from the establishment would keep politics aside and arrest separatists.
     
  15. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Yes you are right. Thats why the Kashmiris think if not independence, then staying with India is the better option.
    See if Hari Singh was able to ward off the tribal attack on his own and not accede to India, and then he established a good relationship with India like Bhutan, they could have survived as an independent state. But the fact is that he chose to accede with India and Indian blood was shed to protect Kashmir from terrorists.
     
  16. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    He is kept alive itself for a reason. I met with an IA Brigadier and asked him why India had not killed Geelani all these years. He said there was a reason. Most of the time he is under house arrest under IA protection.

    Geelani is such a "na shukra" that he has lived off GoI. He was operated for heart ailment i think at GoI expense i gather. He was denied the same by his masters in Pakistan.
     
  17. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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    To add to that:

    - Under Indian occupation, Kashmiris have to deal with that blatant violation of their sovereignty- Article 370A. Now, under Pakistan, Kashmiris will have it so much more better <sic: Pakistani English>. After all, who doesn't want people flooding their lands, taking your jobs or stealing your resources? Just ask the good ol' Baloch's.
    - Under India, ofcourse, the Kashmiris got it real rough: live bullets, a martyr or two every week, baniya sackcloth from the west of the country. Under Pakistan, they'll have the rule of law, the security that only a President known as Mr.10% can bring, and those regular state-funded kidnappings that whisk you off for that quick holiday getaway to Switzerland.
    - India ofcourse is no fun. No 'dodgeball from the skies'- a.k.a. dodging heat-seeking missiles from your friendly neighborhood drone. Now Pakistan! That's a better bet! Complete with a new drone bomba model every week!
    - Besides, when you're travelling abroad, who doesn't want to be frisked, groped, fingered, felt or interrogated in the dark, huh? Just some of the seeming benefits that Pakistani passport can bring!
    - There's more, India has so many beggars on the streets compared with Pakistan. Pakistan, ofcourse, has no beggars. They're all seated safely in Parliament. Those that aren't are busy traveling to Khyber Puktoonkhwa, where the generous landlords are busy feeding them for free at fake medical camps. If you're the beggaro-numero-uno though, you get to eat à la carte at the Restaurant de la Paris.
    - And who can forget, the greatest benefit of 'em all: the Pakistani entertainment industry. I mean, who needs Bollywood, when you got Zaid Hamid?
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2010
  18. neo29

    neo29 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Kashmiris are not happy to go with Pak. Their aim is independence or accede to India.

    Now India must give them a brief scenario of things that might happen if they become independent.

    *Will they prefer Democracy or Sharia Law
    *Apart from tourism industry what else can their economy run on.
    *It would start off as a underdeveloped land locked country
    *What would separatists do if Kashmir becomes independent, likely to form parties and continue being pro Pak
    *PoK unfied with Kashmir gives free movement of militants and taliban will likely follow them into Kashmir.
    *Surely after taliban comes US will reach kashmir too in pursuit of them
    *After independence Pakistan is not gonna sit idle and continue to create tensions and infiltrations in the valley
    *Being independent and facing problems from extremist nation or join hands with a rising economy
     
  19. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

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    that is a wrong notion mate.

    some of us tend to believe that propaganda because we find the only international voice that talks about kashmir is pakistan and this is what the pakistanis want the world to believe, we (the GoI) for some reason rushe to pakistan to sort that issue out by way of talks (there is a clear american hand here) and both the moderate and hardline factions head to islamabad or pak high commission for consultations ( dont forget there is a PoK to discuss as well, which is a part of the agenda of the moderates to discuss with pakistan). surveys conducted by reputed and neutral international agencies have three conclusions to show which has been widely pointed out in this thread, and i am pointing them out in the order of their following:

    1 majority of them want an independent state separate from both india and pakistan, (non-feasible and a nonstarter, pakistan is bitterly opposed to the idea, if you recall pakistan recently merged gilgitstan and baltistan as a sovereign part of pakistan to which there was a lot of opposition from vast number of kashmiris right from yasin malik to mirwaiz omar farooq who all critisized the move and termed it as undermining the cause of kashmir, the only other party to oppose it was GoI, this should tell you where the moderate factions stand)

    2 a certain section is comfortable with india and want the status quo to continue (this has a decent following) and i am sure if we were able to bring the fruits of economic liberalization to aam kashmiri this certain section would have a huge following in another two decades time period, seriously who does not want a better and a more meaningful life where basic necessities are well taken care off, and that is a big reason why kashmiris take a big part in elections, be it for the state or the central elections).

    3 there is no denying in that fact that there is a small section which wants to join forces with pakistan, but the extent of this is not more that 10% of the population residing there, and for 10% minority the geographical boundaries never get altered.

    there are very many independent surveys you can follow on the net.

    people have got a little jittery because there is a media coverage which was never there earlier. fact of the matter is the insurgency in kashmir and punjab was any day much-much more worse.
    pakistan tried open war, kashmiris never once in any war supported them.
    pakistanis tried a covert war and have miserably failed.
    pakistanis are now trying street protests similar to what happens in palestine and they are bound to fail again. with these street protests the aim is to get kashmir back to international headlines as was the case prior to musharraf took over but from the look of things they have failed yet again. the US says, its india's internal problem, the persians and the arabs havent uttered a word (benefits of having good relations with ME countries, and people wonder why should we have good relations with them), china is mum, the UN is supposed to have spoken something but that is now claimed as a pakistani in UN out doing his mandate.

    india as it grows stronger economically the more isolated will pakistan feel and with time the kashmir issue will die down, imagine the day india joins unsc as a permanent member, that day all pakistani hopes will die down!
     
  20. dove

    dove Regular Member

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    Personally I would not mind holding a referendum in each district of Kashmir and allow those who want to be independent leave India. Jammu and ladakh will stay with India.

    The only problem is as soon as that happens, Pakistan will move in and take over. They do not care about what people want and any protesters will be all killed with family as they have done in balochistan. In the end Kashmir will become an advance military garrison of Pakistan against India. That is the main reason why I would (as an Indian) oppose independence to Kashmir because it won't give Kashmiris any freedom and also endanger India even more.

    In a distant future if Pakistan entirely gives up Kashmir cause, or is broken up into smaller pieces (Punjab, Sindh etc) then we could seriously think of letting parts of kashmir secede. No reason to spend so much Indian money in free aid to Kashmir instead of helping poor people in other parts of India who are loyal.
     
  21. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    To add to what Yusuf and Rage wrote:

    By acceding to Pakistan,

    - People of Kashmir valley immediately gain the martial prowess that Pakistanis possess. As a result, the valley people will get magically transformed into a martial race and each valley member can now defeat 10 Indian soldiers.

    - Valley in Pakistan will become hottest world tourist hot spot just as Khyber-Pakthunkwa (previously NWFP) and Punjab has become for Britishers and Americans of Pakistani origin and will serve as a training ground for high-altitude warfare which is in high demand all over the world.

    - Valley people can export their strong industrial capabilities such as stone-pelting, rioting, flame-throwing to other needy places like Palestine and this will earn a significant foreign exchange.

    - The roses will smell better, the apples will taste sweeter and waters will feel fresher due to the new found azadi under Pakistan.
     

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