Why not buy arms companies instead of importing arms

Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by smanekshaw, Apr 16, 2012.

  1. smanekshaw

    smanekshaw Regular Member

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    Why not buy Bofors instead of their guns? Why not buy Dussault instead of Rafale? Why not buy Sevmash instead of Gorshkov.
    That way we learn how to make arms properly. We can export to others and we are not at the mercy and impotence of DRDO and it's chief Saraswat
     
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  3. Godless-Kafir

    Godless-Kafir DFI Buddha Senior Member

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    Its a good idea to buy some arms companies to get the knowledge but We already built an aircraft carrier by our own. Its needs more fitment.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Countries have rules and regulations about sale of sensitive companies like arms companies.

    No matter how rich you get, you cannot buy Lockheed Martin. If Tata, Ambani, Birla, Mittal - all of them pool their wealth and assets and try to buy out Lockheed, the US government will not allow the sale to happen. That is US law.

    Let alone sale of the company - even weapons cannot be sold without governmental authorization. That is how US can impose "sanctions". Left to themselves, Lockheed, Raytheon, etc. would love to sell to anyone who pays. The US government prevents them.
     
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  5. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    Nice idea. But the problem is who will be ready to sell their company, if they have a good technology? And those who are ready to sell their company wont have a good technology no?
     
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  6. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Its not that simple. It is never about technology alone. IBM sold PC division to Lenovo. Perot Systems was bought by Dell. HP bought Compaq which had bought Digital earlier. JDA purchased i2 technologies.

    All these companies that were bought out were great companies. World beaters, among the best in the world at what they did. Yet, they were sold because of a multitude of factors. Business is never that straight. :sad:
     
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  7. smanekshaw

    smanekshaw Regular Member

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    Take the case of Tetra. We can't even copy a truck in 40 years. Why not buy Tetra itself?
    Sevmarsh was bankrupt till we revived them with the Gorshkov order. Why not buy a controlling stake in Sevmarsh. Same with Dassault.

    Look at what the Chineese do.
    They have the world's largest deposits of rare earths(Used in gyroscopes). The Chineese bought the US company that made guidance systems. Learnt the technology. Developed a clone factory in Shangai and put curbs on exporting rare-earths to the US.

    But all this requires balls. Something the so called PM doesn't have
     
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  8. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    ^^ Like I said, absolutely nothing to do with the "PMs balls". No country will allow you to buy their arms companies. Maybe a few small ones, with difficulty - nothing significant.

    And don't tell me you expect the PM to go around buying companies. We should push for private participation in defence production. Things will iron themselves automatically. Expecting the government to go around taking over companies is just perpetuating NehruGandhi socialism. The government will never get that right, it is NehruGandhi socialist conditioning that makes Indians still look towards the government for everything. :sad:

    Allow private military industrial complex to come up in India. Things will change within 15 years.
     
  9. KS

    KS Bye bye DFI Veteran Member

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    People remember the hoopla raised by the Frenchies during the sale of Arcelor to Mittal ? If that was the case for a steel company think about the companies that deal with technologies vital to national security.
     
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  10. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Exactly. Not just "hoopla" this time - like I said, almost all countries have clear cut legislation prohibiting such sale.

    LOL - Americans apply "sanctions" at the drop of a hat, preventing all their companies from CRAY to Lockheed, from doing any business with the sanctioned nation. And they will allow some foreign nation to buy out these symbols of American power - really? :lol:
     
  11. smanekshaw

    smanekshaw Regular Member

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    This DRDO monopoly should end. Having the head of DRDO as scientific advisor is a clear conflict of interest.
    Btw Dassault is a publicly traded company.
     
  12. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Agreed - DRDO monopoly should end. Campaign for a military industrial complex in India. That is the only way forward. :thumb:

    Dassault is publicly traded - so? Didn't get the relevance of this point to the discussion here. :(
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2012
  13. smanekshaw

    smanekshaw Regular Member

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    Dassauly is publicly traded - so? Didn't get the relevance of this point to the discussion here. :([/QUOTE]

    So it is easier to get a majority stake.
     
  14. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    For Indians? How exactly will that happen? Through the open market, clandestinely? The securities boards of the nations are not going to let you do it openly, see - and even if you do it clandestinely, then? How will it help getting technology, knowhow, blueprints?

    The only way one can get their tech is buy actually buying them openly, and transferring it to Indian ownership. Have Indian eyes and brains work over the data and tech.

    No way the French will allow that.
     
  15. H.A.

    H.A. Senior Member Senior Member

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    Well you can never buy a defence company because as mentioned earlier by a member none of these companies are in the market for sale, instead what we can do is buy (I think employ would be a better word) the people who work there...that we get the knowhow.
     
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  16. smanekshaw

    smanekshaw Regular Member

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    The biggest problem is that Indian eyes and brains don't have good trainers. Unless we have their scientists train ours, we will flounder.
    We need to tell France, we'll buy your reactors if you also let us buy Dassault. Money is the carrot and the stick.
     
  17. H.A.

    H.A. Senior Member Senior Member

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    I am sorry however you are totally wrong on the point that we don't have good trainers...we do have, you can say that the human resource in our country is not utilised properly, i shall agree with that, but when you say that we don't have good trainers then you are totally wrong.
     
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  18. H.A.

    H.A. Senior Member Senior Member

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    DRDO is just a research organisation...there is no monopoly over here....everyone is free to do research...regarding funding to do the same, then you should have the necessary capabilities to carry out the research in the first place or you should have a solid project on whose basis you or your company might receive the funding
     
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  19. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Now, that's a workable plan. Give them expat status in India, pay them insanely well.

    Oh wait - the PSUs will not be able to do that. They just cannot execute such a plan. :(

    So it comes back to - allow private participation in defence production. The private companies like Reliance, Tatas, Mahindra etc. will automatically poach people from the well known defence firms worldwide - they need no advice in doing such things. :)
     
  20. smanekshaw

    smanekshaw Regular Member

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    I have interacted with the clowns in DRDO. I know that more than 80% of their scientists are fools, bordering on retarded.
     
  21. smanekshaw

    smanekshaw Regular Member

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    Look how long, defense procurement takes. Which private company will wait so long for a return on their investment?
    Will you invest Billions of dollars while Antony scratches his bald head for 5 years?
     
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