Why is US scared of Disintegrated Pakistan???

[Oracle]

Free Sindh will be one more pain in a** just like Bangladesh. It will not be a good prospect for India.

Bangladesh is a pain mostly when her idiotness Begum Khaleda Zia and her razaakar supported and fundamentalist party BNP comes to power. Relations between India and Bangladesh have been quite good when Awami League is in power, as in right now.

 

[sayareakd]

Free Sindh will be one more pain in a** just like Bangladesh. It will not be a good prospect for India.

Pls understand this, it is good to have free sindh. If the Sindhis see that India will fuilfill their wishes and asperations. In our Constitution their is special provision for new state to be inducted in Union, like the on done for J&k, i.e special status. Most of those who have studied Indian Const. will never object to special status for J & k.
Sindh can also demand some thing like this, if they want from India. It is up to them.

 

[devgupt]

Free Sindh will be comfortable about its national identity- something which pakistan is not (hence its conflict with India). As a stable nation, it will have other priorities like economy and not the need to have a conflict with India as part of its national discourse. Hence India can deal with it better than it does with Pakistan now.
And no I don't believe Sindh should be a part of India. if you make any new state, part of your country, you have to ensure your laws, your authority reigns there.The ideological basis of a Jeay Sindh is built upon a free ancient nation, they are not fighting to be a part of India or undo the partition of 1947. If India rules Sindh, expect another insurgency.And Indian taxpayer's money going down the drain.
All we should aim for is an independent Baluchistan and Sindh, which are friendly to India and allow trade & commerce to flow through.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

You must realize that the remaining pakistan after separation of Sindh & Balochistan will be ssmaller and weaker and thus shall be easy to contain.

I disagree the larger powers (USA,iNDIA) will have major interest especially in
Baluchistan to keep China out. Sindi independence would not be a higher
priority since it is a land locked less strategic location.

One major question is what will be the water supply for the independent
Sindudesh? If it is Pak/punjabi water supply there will be no guarantees
the water supply will not be blocked.

 

[Sindhifreedomfighter]

Free Sindh will be comfortable about its national identity- something which pakistan is not (hence its conflict with India). As a stable nation, it will have other priorities like economy and not the need to have a conflict with India as part of its national discourse. Hence India can deal with it better than it does with Pakistan now.
And no I don't believe Sindh should be a part of India. if you make any new state, part of your country, you have to ensure your laws, your authority reigns there.The ideological basis of a Jeay Sindh is built upon a free ancient nation, they are not fighting to be a part of India or undo the partition of 1947. If India rules Sindh, expect another insurgency.And Indian taxpayer's money going down the drain.
All we should aim for is an independent Baluchistan and Sindh, which are friendly to India and allow trade & commerce to flow through.[/
QUOTE]

Yes. Agreed. We sindhis want our own independent country n our own identity in the world which is based on sindhi nationalism not religion. Many sindhi hindus r members n leaders of sindhi nationalist parties. We sindhis observe anniversaries of raja dahir, roplo kolhi, hemu kalani who were all hindu and fought for their motherland sindh in differnt periods of history. We sindhis r secular in nature n we have no connection with taliban, extremism, lashkr tayaba n punjabi islamic conservatisim. We will welcome all hindu sindhis from india to come n settle in sindh after independence as they r our sindhi brothers.
We will not want to join india. Rather we wish to have friendly n long lastening ties with india based on our historical coexistence n relations. Which will be in the best strategic n economic interests of both sindh n india

 

[devgupt]

I disagree the larger powers (USA,iNDIA) will have major interest especially in
Baluchistan to keep China out. Sindi independence would not be a higher
priority since it is a land locked less strategic location.

One major question is what will be the water supply for the independent
Sindudesh? If it is Pak/punjabi water supply there will be no guarantees
the water supply will not be blocked.

Sindh - land locked?If SIndh & Baluchistan go away then its Pakjab that's land locked.

BTW had India been able to block Pak's water ?
If Pakjab is weak enough to grant Sindhi independence, then it would also be weak enough to accept a treaty similar to Indus water treaty that exists between India and Pakistan

 

[SADAKHUSH]

As most of you guys are talking about breaking up the Pakis land and scenario after that therefore the question arises, who will tie the bell around cats neck?
Will it break up on its own or West (NATO), Russia and India will join hands to wrest control of Nukes first and than send their forces to maintain law and order to prevent violence against each other along with power hungry Pak Army might take the control of the nation and start eliminating those ethnic minorities (as Syria is doing now) they think collaborated with the invading forces. It will have to be very well planned operation in order to prevent civilian casualties.

I am all for breaking up this nation in to smaller nation without becoming part of India.

 

[Yusuf]

As I have told many of the Baloch online, i will say the same to Sindhis.

Organize a central leadership and then as a businessman sells his wares, sell the concept of a free Sindhudesh to the west. Why it will be beneficial for them. How you will help them in their larger strategic goals etc.

Having an online presence is good to get some public support but it will not translate into moral, diplomatic or political support for the movement.

Sindh has something that it can really offer to the West, its opening on the Arabian sea vis a vis Karachi port. Right now Pakistan is milking this as far as NATO supplies go. But in the larger picture, this could be a route for the west to access CAR.

Also all kinds of energy pipeline options open up too. IPI can well become an IBSI (Iran, Balochistan,Sindh,India) or TAPI can become TABSI.

Market the concept of an Independent Sindh well.

 

[ani82v]

Free Sindh will be comfortable about its national identity- something which pakistan is not (hence its conflict with India). As a stable nation, it will have other priorities like economy and not the need to have a conflict with India as part of its national discourse. Hence India can deal with it better than it does with Pakistan now.
And no I don't believe Sindh should be a part of India. if you make any new state, part of your country, you have to ensure your laws, your authority reigns there.The ideological basis of a Jeay Sindh is built upon a free ancient nation, they are not fighting to be a part of India or undo the partition of 1947. If India rules Sindh, expect another insurgency.And Indian taxpayer's money going down the drain.
All we should aim for is an independent Baluchistan and Sindh, which are friendly to India and allow trade & commerce to flow through.

Was there any seperatist movement in Sindh (other than Pukistan movement) in history?
Before independence, did they want to separate from India on the basis of them being Sindhis?
Although, they can't fight for re-merging with India, because they are in Pakistan now but re-merging makes more sense if you consider it purely on the basis of identity, If that is the primary reason for all this movement.

If Sindhis think that they better be separate because they are Muslims too, then good luck with that! India would be better off if it stays with Puki.
Because this itch of being separate or special on basis of them being Muslims will catch on and will start interfering with everything they do and relationship with India. Just like the way it is happening with Bangladesh.

Our Bangladesh experience is a good example of how not to do it. Although, India was pushed by Pakistan into war but what happened later was not of India's best interest.
It is not important who is in Govt, but what a common Bangladeshi thinks. Islam is inalienable part of their identity and partly the reason of problems with India.
If Sindhis are secularist they claim to be, it would be in their best interest to be part of giant secular country, particularly when a country with a fanatical Islamic society is just next door.

 

[Sindhifreedomfighter]

Was there any seperatist movement in Sindh (other than Pukistan movement) in history?
Before independence, did they want to separate from India on the basis of them being Sindhis?
Although, they can't fight for re-merging with India, because they are in Pakistan now but re-merging makes more sense if you consider it purely on the basis of identity, If that is the primary reason for all this movement.

If Sindhis think that they better be separate because they are Muslims too, then good luck with that! India would be better off if it stays with Puki.
Because this itch of being separate or special on basis of them being Muslims will catch on and will start interfering with everything they do and relationship with India. Just like the way it is happening with Bangladesh.

Our Bangladesh experience is a good example of how not to do it. Although, India was pushed by Pakistan into war but what happened later was not of India's best interest.
It is not important who is in Govt, but what a common Bangladeshi thinks. Islam is inalienable part of their identity and partly the reason of problems with India.
If Sindhis are secularist they claim to be, it would be in their best interest to be part of giant secular country, particularly when a country with a fanatical Islamic society is just next door.

There was a separatist movement, Hur Movement, which was led by Pir Sibaghatullah Shah Rashidi in british india. This was all for independent Sindh. He introduced his own currency, judiciary and govt. British caught him and bombed his headquarters in Sindh. He was hanged till death by the british on 20 march 1943. Other prominent leaders from sindh were for independence of Sindh. which was evident from pre-parition elections, in which muslim league was won less seats than other regional parties.
Secondly, we sindhis want Sindhudesh based on our sindhi identity not on religion. Recently, after the death of our chairman of JSQM, the largest separatist party, hindus also performed funeral ceremonies according to their beliefs on his grave.
Bangladesh may be bad experience but sindh should not be. Banglis are conservative religiously but sindhis are not.
You think of us the sindhis are religously mad people due to Pakistan and punjab. But i had requested u earlier we sindhis have nothing to with them. Pakistan and Sindh should be differentiated when u talk abt sindh.
We muslims celebrate holi with our hindu friends in our towns, schools & universities here. Actually you have misconceptions about sindh.
When u go through abt traditions, culture and customs of sindh you will then be able to clearly differentiate b/w sindh & pakistan.

 

[sayareakd]

If you guys think that Uncle will allow Pakistan to be disintegrated you are living in fools world, Uncle will never want those nukes to go lose in the hands of Terrorists with USA as first target, in case they cant target uncle we will be natural choice, since we can be easily targeted. Chini too have lot in stak in Pak land. So if you ever want your dream of Sindh nation, get all the support you can in Uncles land. In short run we too dont want Pakistan going down and firing all its nuke at us, that is their ultimate plan. So if anything needs to be done it has to be properly.

 

[noob101]

Unkil cant disintegrate pakiland even if it wanted to.... at the most it can help balochisthan split form the rest of the nation but punjab sindh POK and NWFP are stuck together with fevicol....

there are so many other players in this scenario for example.... what is KSA going to say to Unkil, Pakistan is a major supplier of manpower to many of middle eastern countries .... for example during the Baharian protests many of the security forces were from the Pakistan army, there has also been talk in the past that KSA would acquire a nuclear weapon with the aid of Pakistan or even just out right buying one from them....

my point being that I don't think that KSA or even China are going to sit by and let Unkil do what ever he wants to....

 

[ani82v]

...
my point being that I don't think that KSA or even China are going to sit by and let Unkil do what ever he wants to....

Unless the uprising is genuine.

 

[Sindhifreedomfighter]

If you guys think that Uncle will allow Pakistan to be disintegrated you are living in fools world, Uncle will never want those nukes to go lose in the hands of Terrorists with USA as first target, in case they cant target uncle we will be natural choice, since we can be easily targeted. Chini too have lot in stak in Pak land. So if you ever want your dream of Sindh nation, get all the support you can in Uncles land. In short run we too dont want Pakistan going down and firing all its nuke at us, that is their ultimate plan. So if anything needs to be done it has to be properly.

This does not sound any common sense statement. Do you think nukes are kids' toys that taliban or extremist just grab away and throw it on india or USA? Talibans and other extremist organizations are groups of ignorant & less educated people how can they take control of sophisticated nukes & missiles & jets???? Lets assume taliban have taken over, which can never happen, who the hell among them is to launch or operate the nukes & high tech ammunition??

Why the hell u indians along with americans are so scared of Pak Nukes????? I cant understand.....
Looks that u are really scared of Pak... .. Firstly, you need to get ur self out of the pak fear... then u can be able to help others..
Soviet & USA were in cold war and there were instances when the both were ready to launch their missiles & nukes against each other. But what happened after the soviet union broke?? Bush said that iraq has WMDs what happened after the occupation? where the hell are those WMDs???

 

[ani82v]

This does not sound any common sense statement. Do you think nukes are kids' toys that taliban or extremist just grab away and throw it on india or USA? Talibans and other extremist organizations are groups of ignorant & less educated people how can they take control of sophisticated nukes & missiles & jets???? Lets assume taliban have taken over, which can never happen, who the hell among them is to launch or operate the nukes & high tech ammunition??

Taliban will never get nukes on their own. The Pukis would intentionally pass it to them and will always feign ignorance when questioned. There would always be motivated low level engineers ready to assist them for know how.
Puki establishment is too brave to take ownership of such acts.

 

[Cliff@sea]

Why the hell u indians along with americans are so scared of Pak Nukes????? I cant understand.....

Pragmatism and fear are two different things . . .
If you think nukes do not need to be taken seriously . . .well then u need to avoid voicing your concerns on International forums.

Firstly, you need to get ur self out of the pak fear... then u can be able to help others..

You seriously think India / America or for that matter any country in the world does anything in terms of Global Politics out of their desire to Help ??

No free lunches mate . . .not in this world . . . None !!

Perhaps you will elaborate how in your opinion Its in India's interests to destabilize and disintegrate Pakistan .

Soviet & USA were in cold war and there were instances when the both were ready to launch their missiles & nukes against each other. But what happened after the soviet union broke??

What did happen was . . . that there were a lot of nukes that went up for sale in the black Market in the aftermath of USSR breaking up. .
and a lot of enriched and weapons Grade Plutonium that went missing .
to you ofcourse that is a non issue in the face of your desires and also since your future country is hardly a Target for anyone . . .
but a regional power surely needs to take such things in account.

Bush said that iraq has WMDs what happened after the occupation? where the hell are those WMDs???

Point being ??

This does not sound any common sense statement. Do you think nukes are kids' toys that taliban or extremist just grab away and throw it on india or USA? Talibans and other extremist organizations are groups of ignorant & less educated people how can they take control of sophisticated nukes & missiles & jets????

not to sound terribly afraid of Taliban, but to brush off Taliban/Extremists as ignorant buffoons is naive, stupid and foolhardy . . .
TBH if a semi literate like AQ Khan, who recently hailed water car as a legitimate invention
and IMO is a better thug then he's a scientist can procure the Technical know how to make nukes
it seriously cant be too hard for Taliban to get to launch them . . .
Given that there are plenty of extremist sympathisers among educated muslims and Pakistani Army/ISI

So yeah ofcourse the threat is very real .

 

[Sindhifreedomfighter]

so u are scared of Pak & Taliban... huh..
so what are u doing to tackle this "SO SERIOUS" threat (as per ur comments)?? Do u want to stablize pakistan so that it can create more mess like taliban, Laskher Tayyaba, so that it can mess up world peace?? so that i can be world contractor of Islam??
Dont you think, its in the best interest of the world to break pakistan up into smaller countries??
Does the world not have enough capability to contain pak nukes after pakistan is disintegrated??
The above comments show that you are in favor of "wait & see" policy..

 

[Cliff@sea]

so u are scared of Pak & Taliban... huh..

Pointless to attempt to rebutt this . . . you may assume whatever u please .

However more closer to the point is

Dont you think, its in the best interest of the world to break pakistan up into smaller countries??

Perhaps you will show us . . . with some solid arguments . . .
How exactly is it better to break pakistan up into smaller countries ??
and why should we be expected to trust the resultant smaller factions

How are we to assume that those leaders and Mullahs which your Sindhudesh, will inevitably inherit from Pakistan only
be any less malevolent towards India ?

will the Mullahs of SindhuDesh be for some reason more benevolent towards India ?

What is the guarantee that these resultant factions will again not run the risk of being hijacked by extremists ?

Answer with Points

 

[chase]

For the question of Nukes, Let me clarify.. We sindhis will never want to be a nuclear country. Its our one of the points in our charter of freedom. That Sindhudesdh shall be a non-nuclear country which will abide by all the international laws and we will sign all the pacts & treaties of being non-nuke country. We Sindhis are extremists & conservative. Currently, there is NOT A SINGLE SINDHI, involved in internal or external terrorism from Pakistan. If u see the map, the concentration, base and foundations of tabilans, lashkar tayaba and extremism are in punjab & nothern parts of pakistan.

Secondly, Sindhis are not in pak army. They dont hold any big positions in pak army n the ISI. There has been NOT A SINGLE SINDHI general in pak army since inception of Pak. All the control of pak nukes lie with pak army & their punjabi generals. We sindhis currently have no power in pakistan. That is one of the reason why we want freedom from pak.

You must distinguish between Pakistan, Sindh & Balochistan. The later two dont have any power in the state of Pakistan. Pakistan is the name of pak army, its intelligence agencies & its military & political head quarters. Unfortunately, Sindhi & balochs have no representation in the power of pak.

Consider this scenario.
The brutality and the failure of the establishment in rawalpindi and islamabad leads to a total chaos in pakistan.
Extremism has reached every corner in Khyber pakhtunwa(it already has now!) and punjab(in progress).
Sindhis are worried about loosing their cultural identity and they want a new moderate enlightened islam rather then the punjabi wahabism.
Sindhi nationalism starts growing in Sindh.
A nationalist leader in India recognizes this 'shubh moharat' and starts supporting the freedom of Sindh from pakistan to create an independent Sindhudesh.
At the same time a chain reaction happens which give rises to ethnic nationalism in Balochistan.

Rawalpini is piss scared and it starts genociding sindhis and balochis to suppress the independence movement.
Millions of Sindhis start migrating to India.
The UN & India scares pakistan of military intervention and total economic boycott if pakistan doesn't stop.
Pakistan has to unwillingly clamp down on the genocide and after that Sindhis gain sympathy in the world.Just like bangladesh got sympathy because of pakistan sponsored genocide.
Pakistan somehow postpones the Baloch freedom struggle.
But Sindudesh is finally created because it shares boundary with India and GOI continuously helps Sindhi freedom fighters with arms and money just like it did with the Mukhti Bahini in bangladesh.:thumb:

Pakistan and Sindhudesh becomes arch enemy and pakistan continually threatens Sindhudesh with nuclear strike.
Sindhis being peaceful by nature doesn't want their country to become a military maniac but a failed nation like Pakistan.They want their country to become socio-economically advanced like South Korea rather then become another North Korea.
So the Sindhudesh govt. asks help from India.

Sindhudesh comes under the Indian nuclear umbrella and Indian govt provides military support to Sindudesh.
Pakistan after loosing Karachi,it's richest city is now an economically failed nation and it cannot challenge the might of Sindhudesh any longer let alone India.

Thus Sindudesh being protected by India and other powers progresses very fast and becomes the South Korea of South Asia.Pakistan with its military obsession remains a failed economy and a banana republic.In short,another North Korea.

Peace prevails and cooperation grows between India and Sindhudesh.Sindudesh after rapid economic progress of 10 years has reserved enough money to create a self-sufficient army to tackle any pakistani/punjabistani aggression at the border.

Thus Sindhudesh finally emerges as an enormously successful state of South Asia whereas pakistan decays with it's rottenn wahabi ideology.

 

[ashdoc]

but small countries can be a big problem i personally feel sindudesh can be a part of india

i DONT want any more muslims in my country