Why is Russia violating MTCR with Nirbhay and not Brahmos??

Discussion in 'Strategic Forces' started by LETHALFORCE, Sep 7, 2012.

  1. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    Nirbhay (India) - Jane's Strategic Weapon Systems


    Nirbhay (India), Offensive weapons

    Description
    The Nirbhay cruise missile development programme was first reported in India in September 2007, but is believed to have started in 2005. The missile has been described as being similar to the US RGM-109 Tomahawk and the Russian Club (SS-N-27), and is being developed by the DRDO in Hyderabad. There are expected to be several versions of the missile, starting with a ground-launched version, and then followed possibly by submarine- and air-launched versions. The Nirbhay missile is believed to have a length of 6.0 m, a body diameter of 0.5 m and a launch weight of 1,500 to 1,600 kg. It is believed to have a payload of 450 kg, which would suggest an HE, submunitions or small nuclear warhead, possibly in the 12 kT range. Guidance is reported to be Inertial Navigation System/Global Positioning System (INS/GPS) with an active radar terminal seeker. The missile is launched using a solid propellant boost motor, which is jettisoned after use, and a turbojet motor takes over for the subsonic cruise and terminal phases. It is believed that assistance has been provided with the turbojet engine by a Russian company, and that this engine is similar to the TRDD-50. A cruise speed of between M0.8 and M0.9 has been reported. The maximum range is believed to be between 800 and 1,000 km. A wheeled Transporter-Erector-Launcher (TEL) vehicle is reported to be in development by the Research and Development Establishment (Engineering) at Pune.Unconfirmed reports suggested that some flight tests started in 2007, but later



    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    36МТ
    Development – NPO Saturn.
    Serial production – NPO Saturn.

    Used as a sustainer engine in aviation tactical ballistic missiles of type Kh-59M developed by GosMKB (State Engineering Design Bureau) Raduga JSC.

    Technical features of the engine:

    double-circuit twin-shaft turbojetengine with coaxial shafts with low and high pressure cascades;
    high pressure cascade – diagonal axis compressor and single-stage axis turbine;
    low pressure cascade – single-stage ventilator with wide-chord blades and a single-stage axis turbine;
    annular combustion chamber;
    autonomous oil system;
    electro-hydraulic adjustment system;
    inbuilt electric generator with 4 kW.

    Key Characteristics of the Engine:

    Thrust at limiting point, kgf, up to 450
    Specific fuel rate at limiting point, kg/kgf*h 0,71
    Dry mass, kg 82
    Default mass, kg 100
    Overall dimensions:
    Maximum diameter, mm 330
    Maximum length, mm 850
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2012
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  3. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    First Test Of Indian Cruise Missile Looms

    The Indian armed forces are watching the Nirbhay with perhaps greater focus than they did the Agni. While the country's weapons program has matured in the ballistic missile arena, it has little or nothing to show in cruise missiles. In the Indo-Russian BrahMos, Russia still builds critical technologies such as the engine and seeker, while India contributes the inertial navigation and fire control systems. On the Nirbhay, while Russia is understood to have contributed the engine, sources say it will be replaced with an Indian turbojet or tubofan in a later phase.

    “In many ways, the Nirbhay is a more crucial weapon system than the Agni family,” says an officer with one of the Indian army's BrahMos missile regiments. “The lack of a long-range cruise missile has long been felt by the armed forces. The BrahMos is an excellent border weapon, but we need a terrain-hugging missile with a range of 750-1,000 kilometers for more potent deterrent value. That's why we're waiting for the Nirbhay more than we've perhaps waited for anything in the last 20 years.” The BrahMos supersonic cruise missile has a stated range of 290 km.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2012
  4. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    U.S. willful blindness to Indian Agni V MTCR violation - New Century China Forum

    India is making a mockery of the MTCR

    At Krad (on another forum), are you seriously trying to argue that a laser ring gyro and an electronic guidance system for an ICBM may have a dual use? A laser ring gyro may also be used for the navigation of a commercial jet. India lacks the technology to build commercial jets. You can eliminate that dual-use argument. Furthermore, the electronic guidance system for an ICBM has only one use: to guide an ICBM.

    India has demonstrated that it has violated the MTCR (Missile Technology Control Regime) and the United States should come out and demand an immediate halt to further exports and violations of the MTCR by India and the supplier country. If the United States continues its willful blindness, India will make a mockery of the MTCR and the United States will be silently complicit in aiding long-range missile proliferation.

    Let me narrow down the list to make it easier for the United States to identify the missile proliferator in violation of the MTCR. There are only five countries that have proven electronic guidance systems for an ICBM. All five countries also happen to sit on the U.N. Security Council with a permanent veto (i.e. UNSC P-5).

    1. United States
    2. China
    3. Russia
    4. Britain
    5. France

    Among the five suspected countries, we can rule out the United States and China. The United States would not actively help India in developing an ICBM. To the contrary, the United States has a history of imposing sanctions and technological prohibitions on India. Also, it is obvious that China would not help India to develop the Agni V "China killer" to hit cities like Shanghai.

    There are only three viable violators of the MTCR: Russia, Britain, or France.
    This statement is an error USA violated MTCR giving trident missiles to Britain and China has violated
    MTCR giving missiles to North Korea and Pakistan (China is not a MTCR signatory)



    The United States should publicly condemn the MTCR violator and demand that they stop destabilizing the world and proliferating ICBMs that carry WMDs (weapons of mass destruction). The U.S. effort to save the MTCR is worthwhile; even if the guilty party says "nyet."
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2012
  5. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    The irony from the article above. Russia is a good boy with MACH 3 Brahmos and a active contributor
    with MACH 25 AGNI. (DRDO chief 20% of AGNI 5 parts imported).

    'Agni-5 has put India in the elite club' - Rediff.com India News

    He said special computers with multiple memory were made, exclusive navigation system was produced. He said 80 per cent of Agni-5 is indigenously designed. He said that 20 per cent components were easy to import because it were not in the list of embargoed items.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2012
  6. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    I don't think that is correct. Nirbhay will most probably use a GTRE engine.

    The NPO Turbofan is most probably meant to power UAVs.

    It is a Kaveri derivative, supposedly.
     
  7. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    When did France ever violate MTCR? Scalp EG is under 300km and Scalp Naval has yet to be exported.
     
  8. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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  9. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    This from a Chinese source.
     
  10. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    why are UAV's not coming under MTCR?
     
  11. arkem8

    arkem8 Regular Member

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    The Chinese are the victims of this violation, poor things....
     
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  12. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    It is from our old friend Martian. He cannot spread lies here?
     
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  13. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    Defensive weapons like THAAD and S-400 violate MTCR but are not viewed in that sense.
     
  14. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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  15. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    LETHALFORCE likes this.
  16. Apollyon

    Apollyon Führer Senior Member

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    आर्यावर्त
    A number of new technologies developed locally were successfully tested in the Agni 5. The redundant Navigation systems, Ring Laser Gyro based Inertial Navigation System (RINS), and the most modern and accurate Micro Navigation System (MINS) provided the ability to land the warhead within a few meters (ten feet) of the aiming point. The missile guidance system computer and software worked flawlessly.

    Strategic Weapons: India Gets Its IRBM

    No surprise, only Martin has the capability to write this bullshit :blah::blah:
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2012
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  17. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    India is not a MTCR signatory so there is no violation.
     
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  18. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    I think Agni V is as far as India needs to go in ballistic missile development. Hitting any corner of China is what they need to be concerned with. Going for true ICBMs will be seen as an uneeded threat by the rest of the world.
     
  19. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    Too much focus is given on missiles while there are no written treaties for other platforms
    e.g Submarines, UAV's.
     
  20. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    UAVs were invented well after MTCR was ratified.

    UAVs are merely aircraft. When Russia can export Su-30s with 3000Km range, UAVs are nothing.
     
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  21. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    There will always be loopholes why would defense manufacturers want to overlegislate to
    the point of destroying their markets?
     

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