Why is Indonesia different from other Islamic nations?

Discussion in 'Indo Pacific & East Asia' started by Ray, Jun 14, 2014.

  1. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Why is Indonesia different from other Islamic nations?

    Indonesia is uniquely different.

    It is because of the unique syncretic mix of culture, they being Santri, Abagan and Priyayi.

    Santri is the practice of orthodox Islam, who are basically urban and who go to the Mosque, read the Quar'an and follow Sharia.

    The Abagan tend to be rural people who have absorbed both the Hindu and Muslim ways and are sort of animist, if you will, and who follow folk tradition, to include beliefs that centres on spirits, magic, and the ceremonial feast or salametan .

    The Priyayi are those who follow Hindu Javanese traditions.

    Indonesia's political history would give an idea of how Indonesia functions and why it is different.

    The Santri played a the key role in Indonesian Nationalist movements, and formed the strongest opposition to President Suharto's New Order army-based administration.

    In contrast, the Abangan have tended to follow the prevailing political wind; they supported Sukarno's overt nationalism, while during Suharto's subsequent presidency, they loyally voted for his Golkar party. Poorer Abangan areas became strongholds of the Indonesian Communist Party (PKI) in stark opposition to the orthodox Muslim Santri. The cultural divisions descended into bloody conflict in 1965/66 when Santri were opposed to communists, many of whom were from Abangan streams.

    For further details, see

    Elections and Politics in Indonesia
    Elections and Politics in Indonesia - Leo Suryadinata - Google Books

    SANTRI - ABANGAN DICHOTOMY IN TODAY INDONESIA: RECONSIDERED
    ISLAMIC PHILANTHROPY: SANTRI - ABANGAN DICHOTOMY IN TODAY INDONESIA: RECONSIDERED
     
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  3. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Note the image of Lord Ganesh on the currencies.
     
  4. Free Karma

    Free Karma Senior Member Senior Member

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    That is one of the cool things about Indonesia, they might be Muslim majority but they acknowledge their past culture and traditions. Our problem is over compensating, and complete shunning anything and everything in the name of secularism.

    Pakistanis on the other hand are trying hard to become second class arabs by wiping out their past, I've heard that some families even rewrote their clan histories to make it look like they were descended from arab tribes rather than local ones.

    Another cool piece of art from Suvarnabhoomi airport in Thailand, based on the churning of the ocean, I'm sure there might be many sickulars who would shout about it, if something like this was done in India, there were people who were angry about the ISRO chief visiting a temple before the launch of mangalyaan!
    [​IMG]

    I think many people in India are now beginning to realize the difference between being secular, and embracing your own civilizational basis.
     
  5. Virendra

    Virendra Moderator Moderator

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    When I see half of the Islamic countries (including Iraq lately) in one turmoil or the other, it doesn't inspire a lot of confidence.
    Anyway, good for them and everyone else, if Indonesia can become an example to follow.
     
  6. jus

    jus Senior Member Senior Member

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    The real question is why they HATE THEIR PAST ..........
    Thanks to British 1947 Brits done a good job by simply draw a line in Punjab&Bengal AND 48 India in Kashmir(loc) where 70% punjabi/bengali/kashmiris are muslims if the LINES are NOT DRAWN they simply ATTACK and convert rest of 30% hindus and they embrace their identity as we are punjabi/bengali/kashmiri

    else the 70% who r converted islam afraid of truth that THEY are LOW CASTE hindus or RA** products

    Ex if we ask any Baloch/Pakthun they are proud they are Baloch/Pakthun........ is these pak/BD say we proud we r punjabi/bengali/kashmiri/sindhi THE ANSWER a BIG NO :lol:
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2014
  7. Peter

    Peter Senior Member Senior Member

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    @pmaitra @mods

    What is the meaning of this? Is this within forum rules. I admit that I made a small mistake but what is this??
     
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  8. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Interestingly Malaysia does not.

    In fact, they have made it a point to wipe out totally their Hindu past.

    One should hear their commentary on the history of Malaysia that they give in the viewing platform at Petrona Towers and at their museums.
     
  9. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Iraq is like any Islamic country.

    The social and the governance model is shaped by the norms of the religion.

    The religion is very clear where the rules are inflexible and 'detours' are practically unacceptable.

    In the rigid matrix of the religion, only a rigid iron hand (if you will) can succeed.

    Take any Islamic country and it will be noticed that whenever democracy has been tried it has failed. Even Pakistan is seesaw in democracy and military dictatorship. Its current democracy is in turmoil with the fundamentalist holding the nation at ransom. It has only under a iron fist of the military have they ever been stable.

    Egypt is back to a military leadership in the guise of democracy.

    Syria is in turmoil. It was calm till Assad was supreme. Now in chaos since interests to bring Freedom and Democracy have taken over, if you know what I mean.

    Turkey is hardly a democracy. Kemal Attaturk brought Turkey some semblance with an iron hand and now it is back to Islam under another 'iron hand'. And they like it!

    Therefore, it is better to let them live the way they want and not superimpose what others feel is 'right'. All this Freedom and Democracy in the western sense does not make sense to them. So, leave them alone.

    The happenings in Iraq and Syria only indicates that we are making it fair grounds for the fundamentalists to run a riot.

    Watch this space for what happen in Afghanistan and the experiment in democracy.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2014
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  10. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Please understand I am a tolerant person.

    Patience and Freedom of Speech has its limits.

    Your contentions are not logical and nor historical truths.

    I think you are crossing the Rubicon.

    Watch it!
     
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  11. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Posters,

    Please keep to the Topic.

    One does not have to dole out irrelevant and low quality fights to show that one exists.

    Display knowledge of the topic instead.

    Or just take it easy and learn something that obviously you don't know since if one knew, they would not indulge in low quality irrelevance and feel that they are intelligent posts.
     
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  12. jus

    jus Senior Member Senior Member

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    can u please highlight where u find my contentions are so called not logical and nor historical truths.


    yes truth hurts doesn't mean u can stop its 21st century :rofl:
     
  13. ITBP

    ITBP Regular Member

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    Not only Indonesia, Malaysia too is good compared to other Muslims country. They are very tolerant. Perhaps because they have different genetics than Arabs I think.
     
  14. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

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    Land of the GODS - "Dev Bhomi".
    I have a hunch it's got to do with the tourism Bali attracts. Of all the places, Bali in Indonesia attracts the most tourism, and the island is inhabited by the Hindus there, and majority of the Hindus in Indonesia are found on here with the count of around 85-90% of total Hindu population in Indonesia and so they are not messed around with, but that is not to say terrorism has not visited this island, this place has been repeatedly targeted by way of bombings, people would recall the famous Bali bombings specifically targeting the Hindu community there.

    Realising well the extent this revenue model would be hurt, these people tightened up the security, and no messing around is allowed. More recently there is this program called "what really happens in Bali" went on air in Australia, and since Bali happens to attract maximum tourism from Australia, there was this huge PR campaign started to overcome the adverse impact this program could possibly have on the flow of Australian tourist, which shows how sensitive the government is to the earnings they make of tourism inflow to Bali.
     
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  15. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Truth as per you contention lies here

    The British did not draw the lines to ensure others are not converted.

    If you want to know more about the undercurrent of Partition or even Kashmir, read Jaswant Singh's book - India at Risk.

    Further you can convert a small minority with high-handedness. Not when there is a sizeable minority in a country.

    By your logic, India would be a Hindu country.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2014
  16. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Malaysia is said to be tolerant, but that is only half of the reality.

    They are tolerant because the economy is controlled by the Chinese.

    Otherwise,all laws favour the Muslims.

    Check the Bhoomiputra Act.
     
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  17. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    That maybe to some extent true.

    However, the Hindu influence and the Animist influence has not left Indonesia. The Abangan stream of Indonesia is very strong.

    Suharto before taking office went through such Abangan ceremonies (blasphemous to strict Islam) before taking office. He was of the Abangan stream.
     
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  18. Free Karma

    Free Karma Senior Member Senior Member

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    The other difference here is that Indonesia's Hindu population is more or less made up of natives (though confined to largely one island), while Malaysia's Hindus,today, are mainly of Indian origin,with a few Locals mixed in.
    Malaysia seems to going the Pakistan way, heavy dislike of even Shia and ahmaddiya muslims. Although you can see there is some resistance, they've slowly become more and more conservative, with them trying to bulldoze Hindu temples and then making people carry identity cards based on religion.

    I think it will be interesting to see how Islam spread in both the countries.
     
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  19. jus

    jus Senior Member Senior Member

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    U mean Jaswanth words are Gospel truth ..........
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2014
  20. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    No.

    No one's word can be the Gospel for any thinking person.

    It just opens up the vista to perceptions and analysis.

    Any intelligent man knows that much.

    One reads history. Some believe it,

    Is that the Gospel?
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2014
  21. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Malaysia has tried very hard to be Muslim, But they have failed because the Chinese actually rule them - money and the Malaysians are too laid back and do not have their (Chinese) 'alacrity'.

    Hindus can be trampled over. They do not have any significant presence in the bureaucracy or the economy.

    And a large majority are but blue collared.
     
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