Why is indian society so resistant to change?

[PredictablyMalicious]

Highl levels of social stratification were the norm a thousand years ago in virtually all info European societies. All of those societies were able to initiate crucial reforms with the purpose of creating a more egalitarian society. For some reason, egalitarianism has eluded indians for thousands of years and throughout history, we see the perpetual lack of will to initiate similar reforms in indian societies. Even take time from independence till now and it is an open secret that india remains one of the most stratified societies in the world, at least in terms of caste. I am not referring to a class system. I am interested in understanding why indian society is so resistant to such changes compared to other info European societies.

 

[tarunraju]

If by change you mean "westernisation," then that's hardly a problem. Indian society is all for modernization, not westernisation.

We'd like our Kurta-Pajamas, dhotis, and Saris with cutting-edge Lycra and Spandex, but not 3-piece business suits, and that can't be a negative thing.

Tirumala-Tirupati Devastanam uses renewable energy, X-ray scanners, computerized crowd-management, etc. That's a sign of modernisation. The security staff at Tirumala is under standing orders to kick out pilgrims who are not appropriately dressed with extreme prejudice. That's not a sign of being resistant to "change."

My NRI female cousin once bitched about being thrown out of a TTD Srivari darshan queue for being dressed in sleeved tops and jeans, she scoffed about how the "orthodoxy" of TTD hundreds of years ago decided that jeans are inappropriate. I reminded her that Churchgoers in the US don't go to service in shorts and tank-tops, either.

 

[kseeker]

I am interested in understanding why indian society is so resistant to such changes compared to other info European societies.

Sanskaar and Parampara!

Have you watched the movie Swades? if not please watch, you will understand some of the aspects why Indian society is so resistant.

 

[Ray]

It would be worthwhile to know what 'change' is expected, so that it is acknowledged that there has been a 'change'.

India has been evolving all the time, and it is for all to see, if they want to see.

Take the food and dining habits. There has been a sea change.

Even post Independence, there were families who did not eat onions and garlic. Today, the lack of onions and price rise of onions have brought down govts

Then there were a section of the society that were pure vegetarians. The same people became non vegetarians and now the trend is towards 'healthy' vegetarianism and there coined this word 'vegan'.

Hindus and Muslims did not eat on the same table in the earlier days, even post Independence. This can be authenticated by the fact that there are restaurants whose signboards read 'X Hindu Hote' and 'Y Muslim Hotel' And if one enters these restaurants, one would see Hindus and Muslims are merrily eating together without concern who is who.

Or for that matter, what was unthinkable in the earlier days, none can discriminate the entry of a person who falls under the category of SC into an eatery.

Beef to many families of the Hindu faith is no longer a taboo.

Nowadays people make it a prestige issue to eat pizza, Italian, French, Chinese, South East Asia on a regular basis and what is most surprising is when having Indian food, that they tell you which wines go with that Indian dish!!!!!!!!!!!!


Clothes. Depending upon one's work environment, one is now wearing clothes that makes to efficiency. That is why, no longer are dhotis the workmans clothes and instead one sees labour wearing three quarter pants. Office goers used to wear crisp and starched dhotis earlier, but now they are wearing western clothes. It is not that the traditional clothes have been abandoned, it is just that they are worn for special occasions and for ceremonial occasions. Even Kejriwal, who claims to be the aam admi wearing shirt and pants and ties a muffler and is not in a dhoti or a pyjama.
That is also a change that generally is overlooked as the usual and natural.

Social Customs. Touching of feet as a respect to the elders has given space to a mere namaste and a namaste[/I has given way to a handshake. The joint family has fractured into nuclear families, except in the soaps on TV. Aged parent are increasingly being abandoned to Old Age Homes, while in the earlier days one would meet relatives on a regular basis, today one meets them on occasions when there is a marriage, birthday, funeral, or a religious ceremony is being done. Then people take pride including those in village to call their father as Papa instead of Pitaji or use the word 'death' instead of mrityu, Daddy, Mummy is so common, Dad, Mom is the flavour of the urban (Rahul Gandhi used it yesterday in Arnab Goswami's TV recorded interview). And vernacular is sprinkled with English words, so much so that none knows which is the actual language that is being spoken in.

One could go on, but these are significant and revolutionary changes, which is taken to obvious today, when actually it is giant leap into change.

However, the issue remains are these changes for the good or are these changes, changes for the sake of change and being 'modern'.

 

[dhananjay1]

Ignorant NRI kids who know nothing about India should change themselves and get some understanding rather than opening idiotic threads.

 

[jackprince]

Ignorant NRI kids who know nothing about India should change themselves and get some understanding rather than opening idiotic threads.

The problem is if this guy gets a degree (miracles do happen sometimes, right?) then he would start speaking absurd about India which will be taken for coming from an expert!!!! The Horror!!!!

 

[Singh]

Sanskaar and Parampara!

Have you watched the movie Swades? if not please watch, you will understand some of the aspects why Indian society is so resistant.

Sanskar and Parampara are social constructs which you have to adhere too. Your mammalian brain craves social support, and hates being the odd one out. But I digress, to answer your point ; I saw Swades, walked out in 30 minutes. Too stupid.

 

[Singh]

My NRI female cousin once bitched about being thrown out of a TTD Srivari darshan queue for being dressed in sleeved tops and jeans, she scoffed about how the "orthodoxy" of TTD hundreds of years ago decided that jeans are inappropriate.

Kicking out someone for wearing jeans is a bit harsh imho.

In Istanbul, if you are wearing skimpy clothes you can borrow a muslim cloth to cover your legs and arms and then visit the mosque.

In Vatican they are pretty strict.

Delhi religious places that way are a bit casual, anything goes.

 

[feathers]

The problem is if this guy gets a degree (miracles do happen sometimes, right?) then he would start speaking absurd about India which will be taken for coming from an expert!!!! The Horror!!!!

It seems he is educated and having loads of money and he despise poor and illiterate Indians and here its clearly shows that there are some who even after being educated behave like this and this is the real horror.

 

[tarunraju]

Kicking out someone for wearing jeans is a bit harsh imho.

The SpiceJet that flies between HYD and TIR (the one I use for same-day darshans), is a flight that runs between DEL and TIR, making a stopover in HYD, so I get to see half of the aircraft with DEL crowd. The DEL women and teenage girls observe a very decent dress code, and conduct themselves quite well in the temple, even if they don't wear saris. On the return flight, they revert to sounding like typical south extension brats.

My point is a majority of Indian women comply with the "no western clothing" rule in Tirupati (more likely out of respect for the sanctity of the place, rather than because the rule exists), and so it's strictly enforced.

 

[The Messiah]

If by change you mean "westernisation," then that's hardly a problem. Indian society is all for modernization, not westernisation.

We'd like our Kurta-Pajamas, dhotis, and Saris with cutting-edge Lycra and Spandex, but not 3-piece business suits, and that can't be a negative thing.

Tirumala-Tirupati Devastanam uses renewable energy, X-ray scanners, computerized crowd-management, etc. That's a sign of modernisation. The security staff at Tirumala is under standing orders to kick out pilgrims who are not appropriately dressed with extreme prejudice. That's not a sign of being resistant to "change."

My NRI female cousin once bitched about being thrown out of a TTD Srivari darshan queue for being dressed in sleeved tops and jeans, she scoffed about how the "orthodoxy" of TTD hundreds of years ago decided that jeans are inappropriate. I reminded her that Churchgoers in the US don't go to service in shorts and tank-tops, either.

Excellent response.

 

[Singh]

My point is a majority of Indian women comply with the "no western clothing" rule in Tirupati (more likely out of respect for the sanctity of the place, rather than because the rule exists), and so it's strictly enforced.

If there is such a rule, for whatever reason, and people are aware of it then they have only themselves to be blamed.

 

[prohumanity]

The conspiracy to destroy other nations native cultural values and beliefs is necessary to control these nations by mega corporations so they can amass billions and get more powerful. Take away their self esteem...devalue their beliefs and living styles and break their sense of self...these are ageold tools used by western nations to enslave other races and ethnicities.
Nations who are proud of their heritage, have patriotism ..... their people can't be bought easily ...can be very hard to control and enslave.
This recent "rape propaganda" against India. by paid media is an example. I donot support rapists..I am just pointing out the exaggeration of news .....
As if rapes dont happen in new york, london or paris..or in other nations. The goal is to create shame and lower the self esteem of Indians.
For some, it is hard to digest that brown skin people can be really smart and can see thru the evil designs to degrade their culture and civilization.

 

[kseeker]

But I digress, to answer your point ; I saw Swades, walked out in 30 minutes. Too stupid.

You didn't even watch that movie completely and calling it as stupid!

 

[Singh]

You didn't even watch that movie completely and calling it as stupid!

Because I didn't want to suffer anymore.

 

[rock127]

The conspiracy to destroy other nations native cultural values and beliefs is necessary to control these nations by mega corporations so they can amass billions and get more powerful. Take away their self esteem...devalue their beliefs and living styles and break their sense of self...these are ageold tools used by western nations to enslave other races and ethnicities.
Nations who are proud of their heritage, have patriotism ..... their people can't be bought easily ...can be very hard to control and enslave.
This recent "rape propaganda" against India. by paid media is an example. I donot support rapists..I am just pointing out the exaggeration of news .....
As if rapes dont happen in new york, london or paris..or in other nations. The goal is to create shame and lower the self esteem of Indians.
For some, it is hard to digest that brown skin people can be really smart and can see thru the evil designs to degrade their culture and civilization.

In US 20% women gets raped but it didn't make headlines each day.

US is quite used to it that it ignores that shocking news OR perhaps suppressing or else it brings national shame since US is "Sexually liberalized" country where women are "equal" and "respected"..... etc etc. US is the same #1 developed country where a guy actually married his grandmother... wow ... too much liberalization.

Almost 1 in 5 women in US have been raped | GlobalPost

 

[Energon]

Ignorant NRI kids who know nothing about India should change themselves and get some understanding rather than opening idiotic threads.

The problem is if this guy gets a degree (miracles do happen sometimes, right?) then he would start speaking absurd about India which will be taken for coming from an expert!!!! The Horror!!!!

I don't know who atheisthindu is or his background. But what special qualifications do you think are required in order to ask questions about social issues? Do people require special approval by some governing body? The observations in question are blatantly obvious. The explanations are varied and complex and can be debated rationally, but nothing's wrong with the question.

Highl levels of social stratification were the norm a thousand years ago in virtually all info European societies. All of those societies were able to initiate crucial reforms with the purpose of creating a more egalitarian society. For some reason, egalitarianism has eluded indians for thousands of years and throughout history, we see the perpetual lack of will to initiate similar reforms in indian societies. Even take time from independence till now and it is an open secret that india remains one of the most stratified societies in the world, at least in terms of caste. I am not referring to a class system. I am interested in understanding why indian society is so resistant to such changes compared to other info European societies.

This is an incredibly complex topic and can't possibly covered in a forum post. But the most simplistic way to think about this is to consider the role of economic opportunity. If you follow the evolution of the European society from the medieval era to its current modern form, you'll see that there's a direct correlation between social reform and economic opportunity. How and why this happened is a different matter altogether.
I have as yet to find convincing proof that progress or stagnation of societies is a culturally intrinsic feature. By this I mean that by and large if any society does certain things they can become egalitarian, modern and prosperous. Environmental factors too play a crucial role here. In India's case the social stratification and lack of reform is bit of a chicken and egg conundrum. IMO the most pernicious effect of the caste system was the denial of economic opportunity required for financial independence. If you see today, caste and other social barriers are hardly an issue in urban parts of India where economic opportunity is relatively non exclusionary. Rural areas however are still disturbingly backward. However the main problem contributing to this situation is politics. Political might is now heavily dependent upon caste and creed distinctions and there are far too many influential political organizations who have a vested interest in perpetuating the archaic social stratification and they do this primarily by undermining access to economic opportunity (how they do this is a whole different conversation).

 

[happy]

I thought @atheishindu had quite from this forum. It seems he is still here to eat others brains. . . .

 

[Singh]

I thought @atheishindu had quite from this forum. It seems he is still here to eat others brains. . . .

@atheisthindu is not stupid, he is bloody smart. Unfortunately for him his trolling isn't subtle.

 

[bennedose]

Highl levels of social stratification were the norm a thousand years ago in virtually all info European societies.

I would like to see some proof of this and information that stratification does not exist now in western societies. It exists. You are simply told that it does not exist. And if you point that out they say "oh but that's not caste. It's just social stratification" Duh?

I put it to you that the same stratification that exists in Indian society exists in modern European societies minus the names and definitions. And minus the bad reputation used to bash Hindus.

The biggest difference is that social stratification was secondary to economic success, and economic success was perpetuated by intermarriage within an extended family group keeping resources and skills within an extended family group (also called jati - which was linked to occupation or varna) For example Gujaratis in the diamond trade marry within their own community and are not about to willy nilly let outsiders into their trade by either espionage or intermarriage. Marriage within a closed community is most likely to occur when it is economically necessary to exclude others from a skill set or resources. If that economic necessity is removed, stratification changes (but does not go away).

The "thigala" community of Karnataka were very good gardeners who maintained their "intellectual property" by marrying within their community (like all other jatis (mistakely called castes). Hyder Ali in Bangalore specifically settled thigala community people near Lalbagh in Bangalore to create the botanical garden there. The thigala community still own nurseries around Lalbagh where people can buy seedlings of any garden plant. But with modernization many thigalas have now got educated and married outside the community.

However stupid Indian government reservation rules that lay emphasis on "backward caste" or SC/ST mean that any person of a backward caste would be a complete idiot if he did not get a backward caste certificate and use it to get an education or job advantage. Indian government policies are designed to perpetuate caste stratification out of utter stupidity and inability to understand what they are doing.

If I belong to community X and I discover that my colleague gets a caste advantage by declaring his caste, I will also try and get a similar advantage. How will ancient stratification go if laws help maintain that stratification?