Why Indians are so much obsessed with English Language?

[Srinivas_K]

Vizianagaram

Great dude !!

I am also from that place !!!

You resemble some one who is very close to me, who studied english medium upto 3rd class and shifted to Telugu medium because he do not want to be parted with his friends ......... !!

 

[p2prada]

sir, All basic concepts of physics , chemistry , biology etc i studied through telugu medium .... I strongly believe these basics are key to any higher studies we do in what ever medium ..

Yes, I know. I am aware of what you're talking about. But my question is more specific.

1) Did you finish your college in English?

2) In case you did, would you have done that same course had you not known English?

3) Without English, what were your other options?

As for basics, I am aware and anyway technical courses revisit all the basics all over again in the first year.

Simple questions, with simple answers.

My answers, 1) Yes.
2) Nope.
3) I practically have no idea apart from local business, acting, local govt jobs, and politics.

With English, there is a whole world of options.

Yes, I am aware that there are people who finish technical courses with the minimal of English, but for such people, there are such articles.

India Graduates Millions, but Too Few Are Fit to Hire - WSJ.com

I know so many who have not-so-fluent English and have hit career roadblocks because of that. Quite a few who are stuck without promotions or opportunity to travel overseas, some who are not able to keep up with courses, some who are unable to keep up with younger and better educated colleagues in being recognized.

I know people who have 80% aggregate in Engg and get paid only 50K a month and I know people who have barely scored in 50s and manage to get paid 10L a month just because of the difference in English.

 

[Waffen SS]

That whole Macaulay thing is a hoax. But I am an anglicized troll, so ignore me.

It is not an hoax and Macaulay was supported of Western Education in India, there was a debate during Lord Bentinck about how education in India will spread. Some for Western Education and some for traditional education. Please note nothing personal.

And yet they know Bengali!

How?

Because while we wanted our children to be equipped for the world, yet we did not want them to forget their roots and heritage. And, just to remind you once again, we are Indians - proud Indians. And so, we home schooled them in Bengali. Was it an extra burden on the children and us? You bet it! But, as I said, we are proud to be Indians first and Bengalis second.

Preference and it proves that very few feel proud that their children do not know their mother tongue!

Russian children are also equipped with world, and yet they study in Russian medium.

I am an Indian Bengali, to me my Indian heritage is Bengali culture. And the trend of Homeschooling Bengali is reducing.

It is ridiculous to think that those who have transferable job should put their children in local schools, where the medium of instruction would be the language of that State?

Can one who has been taught in Kannada switch to a school where the medium of instruction is Kashmiri to keep pace with the Father's transfer?

Did you read my comment? Read my previous comment again and see I fully acknowledged about the problem you mentioned about Military people.

Well, is it a crime to master whatever you do?

Would it please you if those who speak English talks pidgin English? Would you understand them? Do people understand when Lalloo breaks out in English?

Yes people will laugh if one speaks chaste Bengali or Hindi. Are you aware that the Bengali of Bankim Chandra's time is different from that which Rabindranath incorporated?

Hardly colonial.

I agree it is fashionable to palm off all the wrongs that could not be made right is blamed on the catch all phrase 'colonial'.

Even our Democracy and Constitution and the Form of Governance and Judiciary is a colonial legacy. Let's throw it out!

Infact Bengalis never said :Bhaynkar Pipasa payachhe. Japan also borrowed Western Judiciary system but in Japanese language. To India this model is suitable.

They fled?

Or were they made to flee?

Industrialists plough in their money to make profits and are not social services. If they are gheraoed, if there is strikes without end, why should they hang around and lose money?

They fled or or force to flee after indicates they left WB. No industrialist will ever do so as you said, and Commies knew his well, yet they did, so are not they enemy?

I know many who didn't!

How many "Shahure" CPM leader sent their children to Government primary schools? Where English was not taught?

CPM is hypocrite.

Strict?

Like in China?

Patriotism, is not something like Colgate toothpaste i.e. mass produced.

It takes time and it takes a dedicated will. Any suggestion who could do it?

RSS claims that they are patriotic.
\
How many will listen to them?

Not me!

My patriotism is a different kettle of fish!

Only a Messiah can do that. And Indians are not patriotic as proved here by support for English medium school. Chinese indeed managed to stop brain drain for a long time.

He was the Father of the Nation and the tallest hero!

Then why you fear imposing Hindi will halt Nation and Tamils will oppose it?

Gandhiji was actually ladder to climb to power and Nehru and Patel did that. I am not fearing, it was you who feared imposing Hindustani will halt Nation. I clearly said Tamils will have no problem with Hindustani on National level, but not on state level.

Welcome! Indian Kemal Attaturk, I presume!

Bless me then!!!

Again yoo go wrong!

It is not integration. My son in law's family have a huge business going on in Assam for ages. They are more Assamese than Bengalis.

It is just that Bengalis who had come were educated and so they got the jobs, became the elite and indirectly bossed over the \Assamese. That is why they were taken to task. Further, the fear that with uncheck Bangladeshi illegals, Bengali would become the majority. Hence Nellie!

Then the labour force which was from Bihar and UP got targeted because even the low skill work was not that of the sons of the soiol.

Even the Marwaris were targeted but they bought the Assamese over!

Then why Bengalis protested when Assam Government made Assamese language only language of Assam? Bengalis now integrate but they did not in past.

You know Shilchar Language movement? Because Bengalis wanted to impose Bengali on Assamese, which Assamese could not tolerate. I am not denying Economical cause here completely though.

What is your problem with mother tongue education at all? You are educated and cultured so you taught your children Bengali but what about others? What about Scientists who said mother tongue education is best?

I know many who cant write or read Bengali. Indian languages are backbone of Indian culture, not English language.

 

[Pratap]

@Ray

That is because you are exposed as the naked Sadhu on the beaches near Sangam during Kumbh Mela!

What I wrote was pertinent to expose your bogus 'national' fervor!

Alright, Goodnight!

Since this is your level of intellectual standard, it is better that we stop here . Lick boot of British forever.

 

[Waffen SS]

Don't get your point for either question.

My question, if Russians can do higher studies in their language we Indians also can instead of English.

Actually no. Kids who study in their mother tongues without any English language are 100% guaranteed to fail in medicine, engineering, law and science. I have seen it, even in a field like Engineering where math is more important. Most won't even clear the entrance exams.

You are again saying with out English language, I know many who now study in Science but they were taught in Bengali, I never said to stop English, did I? Those books can be translated in Indian languages and Japanese successfully did that during Meiji restoration.

Those who study arts, philosophy, literature, are different. Those who get into local businesses are also different. They don't need English education as long as they have not chosen the field necessary.

Then you admit there is no need for ultra extra-preference to English? Right? If so then then what is wrong to study those subjects in mother tongue?

Colonial days were times of very modest learning. Today's science is on a whole different level.

Then why in Science and technology India is zero now?

The science of colonial days is what we learn in schools. Today's science is what they get doctorates for. There are no immediate translations available, especially in the field of Medicine.

Did I ever say to stop English learning? Japanese study in mother tongue and try to learn English, so that in higher studies they can read books written in English. Japanese do their research in Japanese and when they need to communicate with others only then they use English, unlike Indians.

I was comparing to India. China is exactly like a state in India.

You are reading too much into the past, when science and technology was nowhere near as complex.

As for the Chinese, Japanese and Koreans, they "know" that they would rather be in our shoes when it comes to languages.

Perhaps that's why China and Japan are so developed in science. Study your subject first and also learn English to communicate with others.

Nobody with money to spend will take it anyway.

I think except for Bangalore, no other city provides English education by immersion. So, the Bengali educated kid will never have the opportunity to learn English by staying in India. After High School, he will NEVER be able to take up Engineering, Science, Law or Medicine.

English isn't an easy language to learn. Expecting a student to finish his school in a non-English environment and expecting him to learn with English in just 2 or 3 months with the proficiency levels required to do high level courses is pure fallacy. You don't teach students English by the time they are in primary school, they will find it exceedingly hard to learn it after they are grown up.

English is lot easier then Bengali or Kannada, ask Ray, he knows how difficult Bengali is. I studied in Bengali, and many of my friends did and they face no problem and their success rate is better than those who came from English medium.

Learning your mother tongue must be important to you, but that is not so for a lot of other people.

And I will say it again. The focus on English has nothing to do with the colonial era.

Then what about the remark of Lord Macaulay I gave?

Why you fail to understand after studying in mother tongue then doing a Spoken English course in High school level is enough.

You will know English because people understand it, you need English to communicate with others, not as a medium of education. And other countries have proved.

I again say you of course will learn English, but know your subject well in mother tongue before, like Germans do.

 

[Pratap]

What is your problem with mother tongue education at all? You are educated and cultured so you taught your children Bengali but what about others? What about Scientists who said mother tongue education is best?

I know many who cant write or read Bengali. Indian languages are backbone of Indian culture, not English language

There are far more Indians who know English better than South East Asians and yet, ASEAN is richer than India. So much for English as sign of advancement. Do proponents of English know that Bengal, UP and Bihar all of which use English ( more than Thailand and Indonesia) are comparable to sub saharan African nations in economic indicators? Are they saying that Bengal would have been worse than sub saharan areas without English?

 

[Pratap]

Then what about the remark of Lord Macaulay I gave?

That quote is hoax.

 

[Bangalorean]

I guess some people are confusing the discussion here. Everyone knows that in the present day, English education is a necessity and is indispensable. People who argue for native languages to replace English, make a point that over the years, we need to replace English by native language(s). This includes technical education, management education, etc. Nations like Germany, Korea, etc. have this system - they don't rely on English.

The question that needs to be answered is, is it really worth it to invest so much time, effort and money on such an endeavour? And the more important question - if you decide to do so, which language needs to take the place of English?

 

[mattster]

Isn't this a really dumb discussion especially for a DFI forum.

Of all the people in the world.......you have to be a really "dense as a doorknob" Indian to not realize the benefit that being English savvy confers upon Indians.

First as a Malayalee......how would I communicate with all you guys in DFI, if it were not for English. Am I going to do it in Malayalam or Tamil which are the only 2 Indian languages that I speak ? Even if I could read or write Hindi......about a third of the guys here probably would not understand it.
Indians especially South Indians have never really accepted Hindi as their own language.
To us its a foreign language, and nobody in South India gives a crap about Hindi, Urdu, Punjabi or Bengali.

So if I'm going to learn a common language that helps me communicate with other Indians - then why not make it English because then I can also communicate with people from other parts of the world where it is de facto lingua franca of the whole world.

 

[Ray]

There are far more Indians who know English better than South East Asians and yet, ASEAN is richer than India. So much for English as sign of advancement. Do proponents of English know that Bengal, UP and Bihar all of which use English ( more than Thailand and Indonesia) are comparable to sub saharan African nations in economic indicators? Are they saying that Bengal would have been worse than sub saharan areas without English?

Can you indicate the correlation between knowing English or not knowing English and prosperity?

 

[Ray]

Isn't this a really dumb discussion especially for a DFI forum.

It takes all sorts to make the world and India.

@WaffenSS, he likes to raise issues that are actually very unique.

His praise for the Nazi and Nazi Germany apart, if one watches his threads, they all postures on a quaint form of ultra nationalism, each a J'Accuse on colonialism and the wicked past.

Yet, one must say that these threads keep the DFI active with a 'pass time' format, that does the DFI a lot good when the world has slowed its pace on newsworthy and serious debate issues

Dumb? Maybe.

Fun? Yes!

Great threads for a slow day!

 

[Ray]

This includes technical education, management education, etc. Nations like Germany, Korea, etc. have this system - they don't rely on English.

English has become the dominant world language for science and technology (areas that once German dominated) and business.

german.about.com/od/vocabulary/a/denglish.htm

 

[Pratap]

Can you indicate the correlation between knowing English or not knowing English and prosperity?

Let me explain my position. The proponents of national langauges give examples of Japan and Russia but these nations were advanced even in nineteenth century but my position is that nations like Indonesia or Thailand which were a bit backward than us till 1950s never gave up their primitive langauges and instead enriched them and are much better than hellholes like Bengal and Uttar Pradesh ( where there are enough number of English speakers). I never said that there is correlation between prosperity and any langauge, rather I punctured claims of those who say that English = advancement. How come Indonesia better than poor hellholes like UP and Bihar if English " confers so much advantages"?

There is certainly a relation( with some exceptions) between using a foreign langauge and being poor. The only people who use foreign langauge are Indians and Africans and we all know that both these people are hell poor.

 

[Ray]

@Ray




Since this is your level of intellectual standard, it is better that we stop here . Lick boot of British forever.

May I request you to have a civil tongue in your head?

You are here to debate and not display our guttersnipe grooming and upbringing.

 

[Pratap]

Of all the people in the world.......you have to be a really "dense as a doorknob" Indian to not realize the benefit that being English savvy confers upon Indians.

How come English using India poorer than South East Asia? How come Chinese so ahead of Indians without English?

 

[Pratap]

May I request you to have a civil tongue in your head?

You are here to debate and not display our guttersnipe grooming and upbringing.

So it did hurt you, right? Why did you display such upbringing when you compared me with naked sadhus and yes a man advocating use of foreign langauge is certainly a colonial Indian sepoy.

 

[Pratap]

Indians especially South Indians have never really accepted Hindi as their own language.
To us its a foreign language, and nobody in South India gives a crap about Hindi, Urdu, Punjabi or Bengali.

English is native to south India?

 

[Pratap]

The question that needs to be answered is, is it really worth it to invest so much time, effort and money on such an endeavour? And the more important question - if you decide to do so, which language needs to take the place of English?

Was it really worth to ask British to leave India? Afterall, India was way better than ASEAN at that time.

 

[Santu]

Yes, I know. I am aware of what you're talking about. But my question is more specific.

1) Did you finish your college in English?

2) In case you did, would you have done that same course had you not known English?

3) Without English, what were your other options?

As for basics, I am aware and anyway technical courses revisit all the basics all over again in the first year.

Simple questions, with simple answers.

My answers, 1) Yes.
2) Nope.
3) I practically have no idea apart from local business, acting, local govt jobs, and politics.

With English, there is a whole world of options.

Yes, I am aware that there are people who finish technical courses with the minimal of English, but for such people, there are such articles.

India Graduates Millions, but Too Few Are Fit to Hire - WSJ.com

I know so many who have not-so-fluent English and have hit career roadblocks because of that. Quite a few who are stuck without promotions or opportunity to travel overseas, some who are not able to keep up with courses, some who are unable to keep up with younger and better educated colleagues in being recognized.

I know people who have 80% aggregate in Engg and get paid only 50K a month and I know people who have barely scored in 50s and manage to get paid 10L a month just because of the difference in English.

Sir , I am not against to learn and speak english, But my whole point is that along with english we should make study of local language compulsory starting from school.. In our state we follow three language rule.. where everyone must study Telugu( mother tongue) , English (universal language) and hindi ( as many people speak in india) ... Teaching medium is not an issue whether it is english hindi or any other . There are incidents in my state where school kids were give punishment just because they didn't speak in english in school with their friends.. This kind of incidents are not at all good.. And parents didnt speak any thing about it just because they are obsessed with english and they want kids to speak english as if it is divine language..

 

[angeldude13]

How come English using India poorer than South East Asia? How come Chinese so ahead of Indians without English?

English connect us Indians.
We are one because of this language.
Language doesn't make us rich or poorer but it does provide us with opportunities like call centers etc.

Please stop comparing those little countries with India.
Compared to them India has a large population and that too with different ethnicities and with 20+ different languages.
So english language does provide us with opportunities but the problem is that our population is so big that these opportunities are not enough.
OTOH countries like Korea and Thailand have very less population and hence they need less efforts.
Even countries like Korea which are now in first world aren't able to solve such a primitive social evil that is a boy child better than the girl child.
So a developed country with such small population is finding difficult to maintain its gender proportion.?
BTW south k is at the top when it comes to gender gap index.

Also it is too late to make some sort of language that will include all language of India as it will be time consuming and it is not worth it.