Why Indian youth shying away from joining the Indian Army?

[joe81]

Like I said, the situation is not desperate. If not we could have seen drastic measures already.

I think the situation is desperate. All the Chiefs of IA/IAF/IN are saying abt the lack of officers publicly.

 

[The Messiah]

People who has passed class 10 maths already have sufficient maths skills required for armed forces! why would they require advanced maths ?

I have personally talked to pilots both in air force and civilian and most agree that its a sham stuck in the traditional beurocracy....last i heard the dgca (civilian) even asked that 10+2 maths and physics be removed and to make it madetory till class 10 but that file is still rotting away in ministers office.

 

[The Messiah]

You are seriously mistaken. Class 8 people will give you career advice these days. Did you see what they did at the Obama meet? You think the kids of today don't know anything? Then how did we manage all these years with the armed forces?

kids at obama meet were handpicked and very much in the minority. we may have managed without being at full capacity but we shouldn't follow that trend. there is clearly need for more officers and reasons for it must be looked into it. this reason i have pointed out is not the only reason but one of the reasons...there are few more.

 

[captonjohn]

Indian army must learn from Napoleon who had only 5 feet height but shown amazing bravery. They are creating such a difficult exam papers which seems that aspirants are giving an exam for engineering degree or going to be an scientist instead of a soldier. Getting enough mental ability is good but who got enough time to calculate that at what angle should I throw hand grenade to reach at that distance? Maximum time we work on judgement and nobody do mental calculation on paper before firing bullet or targeting a tank from its anti tank missile.

 

[Yusuf]

I think the situation is desperate. All the Chiefs of IA/IAF/IN are saying abt the lack of officers publicly.

They are just announcing vacancies publicly.

 

[joe81]

Another way to get more and more people to join the armed forces is to increase their pay. BTW Any idea about the pay structure we have in our armed forces now?

 

[Ray]

Some very minor corrections and additional 'could know' points, if I may.

1. In the NDA, one is a 'Cadet' and not a 'Gentleman Cadet'. In the IMA, the cadets are called 'Gentleman Cadet'.

2. In the earlier days, one could join the NDA after Class 10.

3. The academic qualification (Intermediate in the earlier days) was awarded by the JNU. Thereafter, when academics were upgraded to BA, the degree was still given by the JNU. I am not aware that the onus has shifted to Pune University.

4. In the IMA, these days, they are paid.

5. There is no doubt that in the NDA, the physical and sporting activities are world class and would be better than any fancy foreign resort too! You say it and they have it. In the IMA, there being a greater emphasis on military training, which involves a lot of night training, the scope of such sporting activities is limited, as such facilities would not prove to be cost effective.

6. There is no end to education in the Forces. There are courses and as the Army get modern, the courses continue to add up. I have done 13 courses.

7. The Defence Services Staff College of undivided India was located at Quetta.

8. Based on a competitive examination, do officers get selected for the Staff Course.

9. After command of one's unit, officers are selected based on their profile for Higher Command (at War College, Mhow) or the Long Defence Management Course (at College of Defence Management, Secunderabad). Not all can do it since it is based on the service profile.

10. Brigadiers, after command and staff, are selected to attend National Defence College. It "providing instruction to senior service and civil officers in the wider aspects of higher direction and strategy of warfare. Today, NDC continues to provide future decision-makers with the necessary skills and background for filling senior positions in national security and associated fields.

11. Officers reach the rank of Colonel based on their years of service. However, for Command, one has to go through the Promotion Board selection.

12. Army Clubs and Messes are not 5 Star. They are merely well managed, neat and clean and there is a sense of discipline and orderliness that hotels or civil clubs cannot produce, since in such area 'money speak' and one can be plebeian, crude and vulgar in language or behaviour, but not so in an Army Club or Mess.

 

[Ray]

The problem is that there are 'better' avenues in the civil.

Pay, uninterrupted family life, no nomadic existence of self and family, schooling problems, poor housing and a long waiting list for allotment of family accommodation, DANGER of losing life and limb, apart from other issues.

Yet, having seen the lives of the well paid MNC people including my children, my personal opinion is that their lives are too hectic and they burn themselves up pretty fast. Yes, money gives one comforts of life and fulfilling desires to own things that their parents could not dream of, but their hectic life, hardly gives them time to enjoy any of the stuff they have acquired.

In the Army life is regulated. Hence, tensions and uncertainties are less. Army cares for you for your legitimate needs. In the civil you are on your own.

In the Army, you are not worried about the 'pink slip'. In the civil, you never know when you will be surprised, be it staff shedding, inefficiency or whatever. In the Army, that is not the case. However, the problem is that even if you are good, you could be overlooked since there was not the vacancy in the next rank when your course came up for selection. Less slots and so the competition is very high.

As for subjectivity in promotions, that is there also in civil life and even more.

In the Army, playing games is a parade. It is to keep yourself physically fit and mix with your command at an informal level. It is good for man management. In the civil, you could pursue your physical activities, on a weekend. Weekends are the only time when a MNC chap can be with his family since he comes home daily late and if it is a two income family, then the tensions are more, as both have their individual timings.

In short, the Armed Forces, may not pay you as much as an MNC, but the actual quality of life is far, far better and the sense of brotherhood is a great comfort in times of need.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

i think there are several reasons behind.one is of course the armed forces especially the army offers very little salaries when compared to mnc companies.secondly the army physical specification looks very stringent and meaningless no wonder western soldiers looks much much healthier than our soldiers.thirdly every time there is recruitment there is very little vacancy and large no. of candidates appear and some times even 200 candidates appear for 1 seat(in terms of ratio).there is very little margin of error and the selected candidates performance is marginally ahead of unsuccesful ones.also,most of the officers retire after 10-15 years of service and there is a flawed system of promotion,which depends more on the whimps of senior officers and less on the performance of the officers concerned.hence after 10-15 years the soldier is again unemployed.also there is a lack of public and media attention towards army soldiers.they are only remembered in times of war.nobody pays a any attention to the bravery of the soldiers and the hardship they go through everyday in uniform.lastly,i think the army lacks a sex appeal-we are still using outdated weapons,bulletproof jackets,tanks,artillery etc and the indian youth is not attracted towards the army than american or western youth towards their armies.

 

[p2prada]

I have to agree with you sir. But I would say the competition in order to get to the top in the private sector is much more cutthroat than in the army. There may look like there are more positions but the competition is much higher since top positions do not have a term. If you become a CEO, you would be one for a minimum of 10 years until they find a better one to replace him or he gets thrown in jail for tax evasion or you would stay there till you grow old and start wilting like many of our current CEOs.

 

[JayATL]

question: is NDA education totally free? how many years of service are you required to fulfill after NDA graduation to the militray? is graduating from NDA equivalent to graduating from top universities? what is the pay scale of these officers and do have a GI bill like the US has, in supporting higher education and benefits? do they have a decent retirement pension worthy of being able to live off? recruitment is an issue in everybody's army, there are some innovative ways others use with smaller population that India can look into.

Oh if these have been answered in previous posts, my apologies then. I skipped replies after skimming through the article.

 

[joe81]

I think it will be a major folly if the youth of the country choose MNC and not the Armed forces just because of salary.

1. The job security provided by the armed forces in huge. In times of economic crisis we saw all major MNC's laying off people.Peace of mind is a factor that no money can buy.

2. You never get bored of the job in the armed forces. Every day is a new challenge. Unlike MNC's.

3. The pension paid is handsome to a certain extent which guarentees financial security.

4. Millitary Canteen provide items in discount.

5. Millitary Hospitals provide excellent health care support free of cost.

6. Millitary schools charge very less/ no fees.

All the above factors added together is above what a MNC can pay. We Indians somehow are glued to the CTC figure (cost to the company) and forget the real financial benifits that armed forces provide.

 

[Ray]

We need that much inch of chest,
that much height is must,
that much numbers in exams is must,
you can't join army if you are above 25,
you must have graduation in this subject
bla bla what the hell is this?

Can guys more than 25 can't fight well? Can a person who has a little less numbers in exam can't win a war? Warfare isn't a written exam but a practical exam where actions decide your numbers NOT answer sheet.

Warfare is also about intelligent interpretation of the situation.

It is not the UPSC alone that make the merit list. That is formal intelligence, if one call it so.

Then there is the SSB that evaluates whether the theoretical intelligence can be converted to practical solutions.

Then there is the Interview. That checks if the person is amenable to the strict, and even undemocratic (as per the Law of the Land where certain fundamental rights are surrendered) ethos of the Armed Forces.

I am sure at 30+ one is as patriotic as the next man Jack, but will he be able to climb the hills and mountains as fast as the young man, who is a soldier and who has to lead and be ahead of him? I wonder. And so age matters for physical demands of a rigorous life.

 

[Ray]

Millitary Canteen provide items in discount.

It is not at a discount.

The Armed Forces pays all taxes, Union and State.

Where the difference lies is that there are no middlemen. It is Central CSD to the Unit CSD direct. There is No Distributor and no Agent or whatever there are in the civvy street between the manufacturer to the consumer. Thus, the profits of the middlemen are eliminated.

What are the military school with low fees?

As I look at it having served for so long, there is no doubt that overall the Armed Forces CTC is much higher than any MNC in absolute terms.

 

[Tshering22]

Indian army must learn from Napoleon who had only 5 feet height but shown amazing bravery. They are creating such a difficult exam papers which seems that aspirants are giving an exam for engineering degree or going to be an scientist instead of a soldier. Getting enough mental ability is good but who got enough time to calculate that at what angle should I throw hand grenade to reach at that distance? Maximum time we work on judgement and nobody do mental calculation on paper before firing bullet or targeting a tank from its anti tank missile.

Forget Napoleon.. we have our own fine examples. Quite some of the Gurkha or Sherpa people and even Bhutia community people have people of 5 feet tall or even slightly short in height. You think they/we can't fight? Heck! Half the world knows them/us (umbrella word Gorkha usually by West) for our fighting capabilities!

I myself heard from my cousins who did the exams they gave for entering armed forces. Ridiculously difficult. This is all because of that stupid bureaucracy and corruption I tell you. Ernesto also raised a valid point of IAF wanting 10+2 PHY/CHEM/MATH. That's absolutely copied from British system which is much lower standards than what we study in CBSE or even state boards. Just because they had that requirement, we are also having it for ages.

I asked an Air India pilot myself who was familiar with both IAF requirements (via his some relative) and his own civil flying. He said that the fundamentals of flying for both sides are the same damn thing. Student pilots for both civil and air force undergo the same basic training for foundation. US also has air force; it is the world leader in everything aviation! It doesn't have such ridiculous demands as all those who meet the selection committee's requirement get selected point blank whether of whatever stream one chooses. Then why are we having this crap system?

 

[pmaitra]

^^ To be a fighter pilot one needs to have quick reflexes and a sharp mind. While right brained people are good at generalisations and inter-personal relations, left-brained people tend to be more precise and objective. If the entire population of the world was taken, it would look like a gaussian curve, with a majority having a near 50%-50% split. The restrictions based on one's merit in sciences (and not arts) is intended to select persons who have a more than 50% probablity of being more left-brained than right-brained.

Yes, fundamentals of flying civilian and military aircraft are same. Yet, intricacies (not fundamentals) of flying a civil and military aircraft are not same. There are many differences even within civilian and military planes:

This typically employs a level pitch landing:

This typically employs a high pitch landing:

Even among civilian aircraft, there are differences in operating them. Let me give the example of two comparable aircrafts, Ilyushin-62 and Boeing-707. The former has a T-Tail empannage and hence must avoid high-pitch landings which can cause the aircraft to enter a deep stall and a consequent crash, while a high pitch landing for the latter is relatively low risk.

IL-62:

Boeing-707:

 

[LurkerBaba]

Guys what are your views on conscription?

China does it, Russia does it. If we have compulsory military service then they'll be no shortage of jawans/officers

 

[pmaitra]

Guys what are your views on conscription?

China does it, Russia does it. If we have compulsory military service then they'll be no shortage of jawans/officers

Personally, I like that idea. Maybe 6 months compulsory conscription for everyone? Then again, we might have people with 'connections' slipping the net.

 

[Tshering22]

Guys what are your views on conscription?

China does it, Russia does it. If we have compulsory military service then they'll be no shortage of jawans/officers

Not good at all. Removes professionalism. Russia is desperately trying to move to professional army and you are talking about going the opposite direction . Even PLA has reduced its conscripts and is moving towards professional Army.

Plus, before asking for more soldiers, I think GOI should try to arm the existing ones properly. If we get conscripts on top of that, then they would be expected to fight with .303s rather than modern weapons.

Conscription has a lot of demerits:

- Lack of specialized training
- Lack of discipline
- May not be sufficiently well armed
- Lack of retention
- Lack of professional battlefield handling

Russia does it because it is in a population crisis. They have a country 9 times our size with 1/10 our population. So naturally they need all hands on the boat to get their defenses going.

China so far has been doing because of Communist philosophy of expecting all the "people" to be soldiers-cooks-professionals-engineers and goodness knows what all-in-one models.

But both are changing. Check RIA Novosti's reports on this.

We need to first of all assure the youth that they will have decent weapons to defend themselves. The general INSAS-Cold War-style helmets-no joint protections and absence of kevlar sort of stuff that kids see in foreign movies and find it lacking in ours also has a small impact on the minds of youth (feel free to disagree but this is also an important aspect).

And a lot of youth know that the military is really treated badly in our country. Many paper reports have also come up about the treatment of common soldiers badly. They are not given the respect they should be. This puts off people in general.

IAF fails to attract pilots because of the crash rates we have. More pilots die or close to die because of crashes than actually fighting in war. That is abnormal and gives a really discouraging image of IAF. Who would want to die in a crash on a fine day just because MOD is corrupt? No one.

Navy on the other hand having shortage is mystery to me. Perhaps the long duration in the seas and being limited only to the peninsular part of the country is a possible reason. But I am just guessing.

 

[Tshering22]

^^ To be a fighter pilot one needs to have quick reflexes and a sharp mind. While right brained people are good at generalisations and inter-personal relations, left-brained people tend to be more precise and objective. If the entire population of the world was taken, it would look like a gaussian curve, with a majority having a near 50%-50% split. The restrictions based on one's merit in sciences (and not arts) is intended to select persons who have a more than 50% probablity of being more left-brained than right-brained.

Yes, fundamentals of flying civilian and military aircraft are same. Yet, intricacies (not fundamentals) of flying a civil and military aircraft are not same. There are many differences even within civilian and military planes:

This typically employs a level pitch landing:

This typically employs a high pitch landing:

Even among civilian aircraft, there are differences in operating them. Let me give the example of two comparable aircrafts, Ilyushin-62 and Boeing-707. The former has a T-Tail empannage and hence must avoid high-pitch landings which can cause the aircraft to enter a deep stall and a consequent crash, while a high pitch landing for the latter is relatively low risk.

IL-62:

Boeing-707:

Sure thing; but then how come USAF and other NATO countries manage to get general people in just on the basis of preliminary entrance tests? They fly fighter jets too. I am saying that since anyway applicants have to undergo physical and aptitude testing in IAF selection process, then what is the point of putting a concrete barrier to the people of Commerce or even Arts? Who knows they might be sharp students who excelled in science and maths before fancying a field change but had second thoughts later? What if a significant amount of them could clear the IAF entry tests in both physical and mental aspect?

I know what you are saying man. Completely. But choosing a stream doesn't necessarily mean that the person lacks aptitude just because initially he or she chose commerce or arts. Maybe at that time this is what they could have thought they wanted but later would be interested in joining IAF? IAF can always reject them in initial tests if they don't match the performance isn't it?