Why India thinks China is an enemy

Is china an enemy state ?

  • yes

    Votes: 54 78.3%
  • no

    Votes: 9 13.0%
  • can't say

    Votes: 6 8.7%

  • Total voters
    69

Shaitan

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If you ask average Indians in India, I dont think they consider China as an enemy. But your asking this one an Indian defense forum, so you know what the answer will be. I think most Indians dont feel that way about China, but Pakistan how ever is a different story.

Lets get one thing clear, we may dislike Chinese government, but not the regular people.
 

SHASH2K2

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If you ask average Indians in India, I dont think they consider China as an enemy. But your asking this one an Indian defense forum, so you know what the answer will be. I think most Indians dont feel that way about China, but Pakistan how ever is a different story.

Lets get one thing clear, we may dislike Chinese government, but not the regular people.
First of all we are not talking about chinese people its about chinese government. How do you know what common Indian think. Did you conducted a survey that they think otherwise? Many Indians dont feel about tchina in way we feel becasue they dont know what they are upto because our government try its level best to suppress such news.
 

pmaitra

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First of all we are not talking about chinese people its about chinese government. How do you know what common Indian think. Did you conducted a survey that they think otherwise? Many Indians dont feel about tchina in way we feel becasue they dont know what they are upto because our government try its level best to suppress such news.
Seeking clarification: The topic of this thread reads 'Why India thinks China is an enemy'. What exactly does 'India' mean? Government of India or the People of India or both?

Whatever be the case, has anyone done any survey to base this thread on the premise that India thinks China is an enemy? Since childhood, we were taught that Pakistan and US are our enemies and the USSR is our friend. This PRC bogey has come up since George Fernandez's outburst in 1998. Would it be too unreasonable to assume that most people don't think negatively about Chinese people? Personally, I don't hear much about PRC, CCP or Chinese people from the common Indian as much as I hear about Pakistan which is seen as an enemy.
 

JustForLaughs

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no one is lying about anything.
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/cndy/2010-06/10/content_9958768.htm
that is in inner mongolia. you dont build during high demand part of the real estate cycle, you are supposed to have already built and ready to sell. the term over supply is when supply > demand.

"A report provided to China Daily by officials in Kangbashi said that, as of April, all 9,090 apartments built in the area - enough to house 29,000 people - had been sold."

"The remaining houses were mostly bought by coal tycoons"

if anything this is a golden investment opportunity. it seems the coal tycoons are investing in property there. makes perfect sense.




The Truth About China's GDP Numbers
http://seekingalpha.com/article/241519-the-truth-about-china-s-gdp-numbers
fact is China is more concerned with sustainability than high growth. its already the 2nd biggest economy in the world.




honestly, some attempts at "criticisms" here are just....
 
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SHASH2K2

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Seeking clarification: The topic of this thread reads 'Why India thinks China is an enemy'. What exactly does 'India' mean? Government of India or the People of India or both?
I think its for both . I dont think that anyone would disagree that whatever china has done in last decade and what its is doing now is definitely act of an enemy state .

Whatever be the case, has anyone done any survey to base this thread on the premise that India thinks China is an enemy? Since childhood, we were taught that Pakistan and US are our enemies and the USSR is our friend. This PRC bogey has come up since George Fernandez's outburst in 1998. Would it be too unreasonable to assume that most people don't think negatively about Chinese people? Personally, I don't hear much about PRC, CCP or Chinese people from the common Indian as much as I hear about Pakistan which is seen as an enemy.
No one is permanent friend or enemy . We never know that tomorrow same PRC will be a friend of India. We all live in present and as of now China is an enemy . We should all say thank to George fernandez for bringing it to notice of common man of India that China is the biggest enemy . You talk about common people of India . Truth is not even 30-40 of people read news papers or watch news. Also pakistan issue has been overplayed by media and consecutive governments . Also mischievous activties of Pakistan on regular Interval keep it fresh in people mind. While China like to work silently and on most of occasions uses a proxy to do the damage . A common man donot have time and source of information to know all these. Whatever little information they have is due to media activity in recent years and this awareness will increase with time.
 

pmaitra

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I think its for both . I dont think that anyone would disagree that whatever china has done in last decade and what its is doing now is definitely act of an enemy state .


No one is permanent friend or enemy . We never know that tomorrow same PRC will be a friend of India. We all live in present and as of now China is an enemy . We should all say thank to George fernandez for bringing it to notice of common man of India that China is the biggest enemy . You talk about common people of India . Truth is not even 30-40 of people read news papers or watch news. Also pakistan issue has been overplayed by media and consecutive governments . Also mischievous activties of Pakistan on regular Interval keep it fresh in people mind. While China like to work silently and on most of occasions uses a proxy to do the damage . A common man donot have time and source of information to know all these. Whatever little information they have is due to media activity in recent years and this awareness will increase with time.
I think a majority of Indians don't care much about PRC. For people like us, who discuss and deliberate, most definitely think the PRC is a potential threat and to support what you said, believe that PRC's actions in the recent past have been detrimental to India and its territorial integrity. However, I doubt if there is hatred among most Indians towards a person who is Chinese. The point what many posters, including myself, have tried to highlight is that the antagonism that exists between GoI and PRC does not necessarily translate into antagonism between an Indian individual and a Chinese individual.
 

mayfair

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I think a majority of Indians don't care much about PRC. For people like us, who discuss and deliberate, most definitely think the PRC is a potential threat and to support what you said, believe that PRC's actions in the recent past have been detrimental to India and its territorial integrity. However, I doubt if there is hatred among most Indians towards a person who is Chinese. The point what many posters, including myself, have tried to highlight is that the antagonism that exists between GoI and PRC does not necessarily translate into antagonism between an Indian individual and a Chinese individual.
I agree with that, personally I've known a fair few Chinese and we get along just fine. However, one may same for many Indians acquainted with Pakistanis and vice-versa. While they may share great camaraderie, it does not extend to most other Indians and Pakistanis. A glance through several Chinese blogs (in English and Mandarin) would dispel the notion that most Chinese are not antagonistic towards India or Indians. The racial stereotypes expressed in many of these and other more international fora should be enough to dispel the great myths of bonhomie.
 

Ray

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no one is lying about anything.
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/cndy/2010-06/10/content_9958768.htm
that is in inner mongolia. you dont build during high demand part of the real estate cycle, you are supposed to have already built and ready to sell. the term over supply is when supply > demand.

"A report provided to China Daily by officials in Kangbashi said that, as of April, all 9,090 apartments built in the area - enough to house 29,000 people - had been sold."

"The remaining houses were mostly bought by coal tycoons"

if anything this is a golden investment opportunity. it seems the coal tycoons are investing in property there. makes perfect sense.



The Truth About China's GDP Numbers
http://seekingalpha.com/article/241519-the-truth-about-china-s-gdp-numbers
fact is China is more concerned with sustainability than high growth. its already the 2nd biggest economy in the world.




honestly, some attempts at "criticisms" here are just....

Investment thought speculative is not done in areas where the returns are not expected soon.

Houses sold but not occupied with deteriorate with time.

Building require occupancy and constant maintenance.

So, it means ploughing money into thin air but with great hope that someday..........................
 

JustForLaughs

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Investment thought speculative is not done in areas where the returns are not expected soon.

Houses sold but not occupied with deteriorate with time.

Building require occupancy and constant maintenance.

So, it means ploughing money into thin air but with great hope that someday..........................
...real estate investment is about the property increasing in value....you can do nothing at all, not even build anything, and the value can increase.

why do you think so many Hong Kongers got rich so fast? land value in HK skyrocketed. when sold, they had the capital to do whatever business they wanted.


read this for more info on investing in real estate types

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/reit.asp


developers build to either sell or rent. since all the apartments are sold, the developers are good. the coal tycoons are most likely investing for property increases, which is happening. so they are good as well. everyone is good. only those who dont understand what over supply actually means or what investing in property is about thinks there is something wrong.
 
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badguy2000

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in the city where I live ,the price of reas assets has doubed in the past two years. but it still can not prevent the tide of the house-purchase here.

in fact,because the supply of houses is so less than the demand,new houses here always are sold out immediately after finished.
 

Ray

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...real estate investment is about the property increasing in value....you can do nothing at all, not even build anything, and the value can increase.

why do you think so many Hong Kongers got rich so fast? land value in HK skyrocketed. when sold, they had the capital to do whatever business they wanted.


read this for more info on investing in real estate types

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/reit.asp



developers build to either sell or rent. since all the apartments are sold, the developers are good. the coal tycoons are most likely investing for property increases, which is happening. so they are good as well. everyone is good. only those who dont understand what over supply actually means or what investing in property is about thinks there is something wrong.
Land was at a premium in HK and so the price escalated since the demand since there were many contenders for acquisition of the same piece of land. Demand and supply.

How many would invest in a desert?

If a whole lot of cities come up arbitrarily, without economic hotspots around, how many will migrate to such areas?
 

badguy2000

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Land was at a premium in HK and so the price escalated since the demand since there were many contenders for acquisition of the same piece of land. Demand and supply.

How many would invest in a desert?

If a whole lot of cities come up arbitrarily, without economic hotspots around, how many will migrate to such areas?
people will move there for better jobs, because the city has the highest per capital GDP in CHina....its per capital GDP is even higher than Hongkong.
 

Ray

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in the city where I live ,the price of reas assets has doubed in the past two years. but it still can not prevent the tide of the house-purchase here.

in fact,because the supply of houses is so less than the demand,new houses here always are sold out immediately after finished.
That is a different issue.

Where there is economic interest, cities will swell.

In the gritty Inner Mongolian wind, I stood at the pinnacle of the global economy, at least in terms of GDP growth: the main drag of one of the fastest growing cities in the fastest-growing region in all of China, the world's supposed new economic powerhouse.

Built in a breakneck five years, Kangbashi is a state-of-the-art city full of architectural marvels and sculpture gardens. There's just one thing missing: people. The city, built by the government and funded with coal money, its chief industries energy and carmaking, has been mostly vacant for as long as it has been complete, except for the massive municipal headquarters. It's a grand canyon of empty monoliths. In a paradox only possible in today's economic system, Kangbashi manages to be both a boom town and a ghost town at the same time.

Kangbashi represents a particularly destructive economic force at work in China today: an obsession with GDP that ignores all other metrics of progress or human capital. GDP as calculated in China -- or the rest of the world, for that matter -- doesn't make any distinction between quantity and quality, or between creative and destructive expenditures.

Due to the industrial pollution billowing out of the country's GDP-enhancing factories and mines, cancer is the leading cause of death in China. A recent government survey showed that 30 percent of children in Yunnan province suffer from lead poisoning. Perhaps the biggest and most destructive GDP boost came from construction of the Three Gorges Dam, for which 1.24 million people were evicted. Even some of the newly rich, however, shower in tainted brown tap water.

Meanwhile, in places like Kangbashi, an accelerated development in the real estate market has not been matched by long-term sustainability, and in recent months, predictions have grown louder that China's real estate bubble is about to burst. This debate has been batted back and forth by columnists and TV talking heads lately. For now, income growth is still outpacing housing price growth, meaning that the real estate market is not technically a bubble.

Still, China's emphasis on growth at all costs is creating some bizarre monsters, and Kangbashi is one of them. Six years ago, Ordos county officials decided to move their headquarters out of old, cramped Dongsheng and into land that was then occupied by two small villages inhabited by about 1,400 people. By the end of 2008, the new district of Kangbashi was crisscrossed with 2.4 billion yuan ($352 million) worth of roads. Officials initially said they expected the population to reach 100,000 this year and 300,000 by 2020. They also say the population reached 50,000 last year, which seems improbable given that pedestrians on the street were outnumbered by street sweepers. A local real estate agent, Cao Ting, told me it had actually been easy to sell apartments. She said 80 percent of the apartments had been sold. I believed her even though 80 percent of them looked empty, with no curtains or furniture visible during the day and no lights on at night. The buyers were mostly investors or future residents waiting for schools and hospitals to open before moving in.

The new buildings look great from the outside, and they're economically fine on paper, if you believe the local government. And they may continue in this state, since the government will prop up the property market because it holds up so much else as well. Local governments' revenues are completely dependent on land sales. Eventually, perhaps, the population will catch up with this accelerated development.

When I went to visit last October, however, the lonely residents of Kangbashi didn't seem likely to be welcoming new neighbors anytime soon. Over glazed pork one night, I struck up a conversation with a middle-aged Chinese interpreter for German engineers employed at the state-owned coal mines nearby. Later that night, he showed me how he staves off the loneliness: sitting alone in his hotel room with a microphone in his hand, crooning along in online karaoke rooms.

Kangbashi's eight-story library has a computer lab with about 100 brand-new computers, but I saw only an attendant and two teenage boys playing games. Near the town's reservoir, two large screens were showing footage from the National Day parade celebrating the 60th anniversary of the People's Republic. I looked up to see a sea of people in a clenched-fist salute in Tiananmen Square. But I was the only one watching. The only other people in sight were a dozen laborers landscaping the center dividers, their faces shrouded against the cold wind.

Across the reservoir, cranes were parked around construction sites. A trade and commerce district is in the works, according to blueprints decorated with cartoon animals and wispy shooting stars in the style of Disney's Fantasia. The image of spindly glass skyscrapers reflected on the water bears a striking resemblance to Dubai, funded by government revenue from fossil fuel extraction. But whereas Dubai is already bankrupt, here construction continues. At least, for now.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/02/18/chinas_high_growth_ghost_towns?page=0,1
 

JustForLaughs

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Land was at a premium in HK and so the price escalated since the demand since there were many contenders for acquisition of the same piece of land. Demand and supply.

How many would invest in a desert?

If a whole lot of cities come up arbitrarily, without economic hotspots around, how many will migrate to such areas?
lol desert. HK was just a fishing village.


how many would invest? enough. all the apartments are sold remember? its true there was a planning mistake. this new city is too far from the old city.


"The main reason why Kangbashi is empty seems to be a planning issue: The new town is 25 kilometers from the old town, which has discouraged people from moving."


http://www.beinformedjournal.com/be...rdos-city-china-an-ultra-modern-city-wit.html

but its not even that the people arent around. they just didnt move into this developed city, yet. for now, the migration from rural will still be largely to Chinese east coast cities, but that cant last forever.
 

Ray

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lol desert. HK was just a fishing village.


how many would invest? enough. all the apartments are sold remember? its true there was a planning mistake. this new city is too far from the old city.


"The main reason why Kangbashi is empty seems to be a planning issue: The new town is 25 kilometers from the old town, which has discouraged people from moving."


http://www.beinformedjournal.com/be...rdos-city-china-an-ultra-modern-city-wit.html

but its not even that the people arent around. they just didnt move into this developed city, yet. for now, the migration from rural will still be largely to Chinese east coast cities, but that cant last forever.
Read carefully.

On HK my comment was - Land was at a premium in HK and so the price escalated since the demand since there were many contenders for acquisition of the same piece of land. Demand and supply.

It is obvious that HK is not in the desert.

However, ghost towns in the deserts or out of nowhere is not going to go the HK way!

If people invest in out of the way places, then there is something terribly wrong. It is possibly the same syndrome that struck some when malls came about. They bought anything and everything from the Mall without caring about the cost and without checking whether they were many time higher priced than the local Mum and Dad neighbourhood shops. Nouveau riche who have no idea how to spend their money?
 

JustForLaughs

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Read carefully.

On HK my comment was - Land was at a premium in HK and so the price escalated since the demand since there were many contenders for acquisition of the same piece of land. Demand and supply.

It is obvious that HK is not in the desert.

However, ghost towns in the deserts or out of nowhere is not going to go the HK way!

If people invest in out of the way places, then there is something terribly wrong. It is possibly the same syndrome that struck some when malls came about. They bought anything and everything from the Mall without caring about the cost and without checking whether they were many time higher priced than the local Mum and Dad neighbourhood shops. Nouveau riche who have no idea how to spend their money?

no you misunderstand. i never thought you thought HK was a desert. im saying even a fishing village can become an alpha+ rank city. so an area blessed with natural resources has every chance of booming.

where are you getting this mall info? big box chain stores are well known to have much better prices (by buying in bulk from suppliers) and thats why local businesses are pretty much given a death sentence when Walmart comes to a town.
 

roma

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I agree with that, personally I've known a fair few Chinese and we get along just fine. However, one may same for many Indians acquainted with Pakistanis and vice-versa. While they may share great camaraderie, it does not extend to most other Indians and Pakistanis. A glance through several Chinese blogs (in English and Mandarin) would dispel the notion that most Chinese are not antagonistic towards India or Indians. The racial stereotypes expressed in many of these and other more international fora should be enough to dispel the great myths of bonhomie.
would be great if time to time we could hacve a sample of those quotes form their blogs ( fora ) - really the common man in india needs to know about this - i wonder how they could be informed - it would help them form a more accurate opinion of the neighbour
 

Ray

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no you misunderstand. i never thought you thought HK was a desert. im saying even a fishing village can become an alpha+ rank city. so an area blessed with natural resources has every chance of booming.

where are you getting this mall info? big box chain stores are well known to have much better prices (by buying in bulk from suppliers) and thats why local businesses are pretty much given a death sentence when Walmart comes to a town.

The fishing village had a great start historically.

It was an entrepot port of the British.

It was a town with a large international commercial port dealing in re-exports without paying of import taxes.

But for the British, it would have remained the small fishing village it was.

I am not getting any mail, merely observing the situation. Yes, bulk beings down costs, but then when the pansari grocer and the green grocer buys direct from the farmer, things are cheaper.

It is now in India that big chains like Metro and Keventers are coming in to deal with bulk green grocer items and that will ring the death knell of the small time green grocers.
 

niharjhatn

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would be great if time to time we could hacve a sample of those quotes form their blogs ( fora ) - really the common man in india needs to know about this - i wonder how they could be informed - it would help them form a more accurate opinion of the neighbour
Chinese racism is well known - as I had pointed out before, look at some of the issues occurring in Malaysia between ethnic Malay and Chinese!

link:
China's black pop idol exposes her nation's racism
 

pmaitra

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^^ Good post. Although I would reserve my judgement regarding whether Chinese as a whole are racist or not, here are some pictures of Lou Jing, born to a Chinese mother and African-American father:

 

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