Why India thinks China is an enemy

[roma]

ditto to what some have said above - people to people , there is hardly any problem but governmentally could be heading for serious trouble

 

[JustForLaughs]

China has people like JustForlaughs who claim they don't care India a bit but are willing to spend time on an Indian forum. China also has people who are labeled as innocent and naive like me will spend time study India, discuss with Indian members and understand their standpoint.

China is an amazing place with all sorts of people. Indian friends, welcome to China!

the difference between me and you is when i talk about a groups perception, im honest about it. i dont pretend my personal feeling is matched with theirs when it isnt.

im clearly pro china, but i never pretend hong konger have no issue with mainlander or chinese gov or even its own gov. proved just a few posts back.

 

[Iamanidiot]

Is india- the enemy of China?
No, because india is still not powerful enough to be an enemy.

Do most of chinese hate india?
No. we don't hate someone just because he is playing great game against us. Every country is playing the great game with others. Even Pak is playing this game with us. The only difference is that now Pak is on the same side with us due to its interest. I have no doubt that Pak would be on the other side one day if this change will serve its interest.

India is not powerful enough RoTflamo

This made my day

 

[kickok1975]

the difference between me and you is when i talk about a groups perception, im honest about it. i dont pretend my personal feeling is matched with theirs when it isnt.

im clearly pro china, but i never pretend hong konger have no issue with mainlander or chinese gov or even its own gov. proved just a few posts back.

I'm honest on every word I wrote here. India might not have a good impression in your or other people's eyes, not for me and those who are interested in India.

Yes, in Hong Kong you guys used to look down many people including Indian, Vietnamese, even mainland Chinese because they are considered as poor, dirty and uncivilized compare to people living in a prosperous and rich city named Hong Kong. So, like you said, you are representing the group perception. But don't forget, the world is changing.

 

[Ray]

Hong Kong is allowed to be what it is, with some restriction.

That is because it is a cash cow.

The PRC is not a set of chumps!

 

[Iamanidiot]

Reading the posts of many Chinese members it is clear to me that mos of heir views are a product of CCP news and the majority of them are mainlanders who have not interacted with other nationalities much in a multi-culti place.Lets hope that they broaden their views after coming to DFI

 

[ashdoc]

i think china is taking the so-called indian threat too seriously . actually india is not even a threat to pakistan . it is one of the mildest countries on the globe with many people who eat veg food --so many are scared of the words like war and killing etc . its the land that has given the two great icons of peace -gandhi and buddha .

i think that china thinks that india will behave like a ' normal ' country when it reaches a certain level of economic growth --that is , will behave aggressively and flex its muscles , thereby threatening china. those who know india better know that its people are too pacific to do that . the chinese are losing their hair over a non-existent threat .

 

[badguy2000]

Reading the posts of many Chinese members it is clear to me that mos of heir views are a product of CCP news and the majority of them are mainlanders who have not interacted with other nationalities much in a multi-culti place.Lets hope that they broaden their views after coming to DFI

instead, most Chinese here often surf english website and CNN-style medias before they come here IDF,such as me.

After reading views of Indians here, I find it very surprise that most of them are the products of west CNN-medias and their yesmen in India.
Most of Indian here also hardly interacted with non-western medias and people...
So, I hope to broaden your views.

 

[badguy2000]

i think china is taking the so-called indian threat too seriously . actually india is not even a threat to pakistan . it is one of the mildest countries on the globe with many people who eat veg food --so many are scared of the words like war and killing etc . its the land that has given the two great icons of peace -gandhi and buddha .

i think that china thinks that india will behave like a ' normal ' country when it reaches a certain level of economic growth --that is , will behave aggressively and flex its muscles , thereby threatening china. those who know india better know that its people are too pacific to do that . the chinese are losing their hair over a non-existent threat .

frankly speaking, in most of CHinese netizens' eyes, India is usually not a threaten,but a laughing stock.such as "in 5 years, Bombay will make people forget SHanghai",LCA,Arjun,"just 5 minutes"," india to ......",and "china to collapse" fanboys such as Mr. Armand and Vladimer.

I know that the what I said h might hurt some people here,but it is still the truth.
I know that what Mr.Kickok said might sound good, but most of them are lies.

to tell one hurting turth is still bettern than to tell one good-sounding lie.

 

[Ray]

frankly speaking, in most of CHinese netizens' eyes, India is usually not a threaten,but a laughing stock.such as "in 5 years, Bombay will make people forget SHanghai"...LCA...Arjun...."just 5 minutes"....etc...

I know that the truth might hurt some people here,but it is still the truth.

to tell one hurting turth is still bettern than one good-sounding lie.

Laugh stock or not, they are not frauds who take pleasure in self deception.

Here are some examples:

I

China's High-Growth Ghost Towns
Visiting the eerily vacant epicenter of unsustainable progress, far out in the grasslands of Inner Mongolia.


In the gritty Inner Mongolian wind, I stood at the pinnacle of the global economy, at least in terms of GDP growth: the main drag of one of the fastest growing cities in the fastest-growing region in all of China, the world's supposed new economic powerhouse.

Built in a breakneck five years, Kangbashi is a state-of-the-art city full of architectural marvels and sculpture gardens. There's just one thing missing: people. The city, built by the government and funded with coal money, its chief industries energy and carmaking, has been mostly vacant for as long as it has been complete, except for the massive municipal headquarters. It's a grand canyon of empty monoliths. In a paradox only possible in today's economic system, Kangbashi manages to be both a boom town and a ghost town at the same time.

Kangbashi represents a particularly destructive economic force at work in China today: an obsession with GDP that ignores all other metrics of progress or human capital. GDP as calculated in China -- or the rest of the world, for that matter -- doesn't make any distinction between quantity and quality, or between creative and destructive expenditures.

Due to the industrial pollution billowing out of the country's GDP-enhancing factories and mines, cancer is the leading cause of death in China. A recent government survey showed that 30 percent of children in Yunnan province suffer from lead poisoning. Perhaps the biggest and most destructive GDP boost came from construction of the Three Gorges Dam, for which 1.24 million people were evicted. Even some of the newly rich, however, shower in tainted brown tap water.

Meanwhile, in places like Kangbashi, an accelerated development in the real estate market has not been matched by long-term sustainability, and in recent months, predictions have grown louder that China's real estate bubble is about to burst. This debate has been batted back and forth by columnists and TV talking heads lately. For now, income growth is still outpacing housing price growth, meaning that the real estate market is not technically a bubble.

Still, China's emphasis on growth at all costs is creating some bizarre monsters, and Kangbashi is one of them. Six years ago, Ordos county officials decided to move their headquarters out of old, cramped Dongsheng and into land that was then occupied by two small villages inhabited by about 1,400 people. By the end of 2008, the new district of Kangbashi was crisscrossed with 2.4 billion yuan ($352 million) worth of roads. Officials initially said they expected the population to reach 100,000 this year and 300,000 by 2020. They also say the population reached 50,000 last year, which seems improbable given that pedestrians on the street were outnumbered by street sweepers. A local real estate agent, Cao Ting, told me it had actually been easy to sell apartments. She said 80 percent of the apartments had been sold. I believed her even though 80 percent of them looked empty, with no curtains or furniture visible during the day and no lights on at night. The buyers were mostly investors or future residents waiting for schools and hospitals to open before moving in.

The new buildings look great from the outside, and they're economically fine on paper, if you believe the local government. And they may continue in this state, since the government will prop up the property market because it holds up so much else as well. Local governments' revenues are completely dependent on land sales. Eventually, perhaps, the population will catch up with this accelerated development.

When I went to visit last October, however, the lonely residents of Kangbashi didn't seem likely to be welcoming new neighbors anytime soon. Over glazed pork one night, I struck up a conversation with a middle-aged Chinese interpreter for German engineers employed at the state-owned coal mines nearby. Later that night, he showed me how he staves off the loneliness: sitting alone in his hotel room with a microphone in his hand, crooning along in online karaoke rooms.

Kangbashi's eight-story library has a computer lab with about 100 brand-new computers, but I saw only an attendant and two teenage boys playing games. Near the town's reservoir, two large screens were showing footage from the National Day parade celebrating the 60th anniversary of the People's Republic. I looked up to see a sea of people in a clenched-fist salute in Tiananmen Square. But I was the only one watching. The only other people in sight were a dozen laborers landscaping the center dividers, their faces shrouded against the cold wind.

Across the reservoir, cranes were parked around construction sites. A trade and commerce district is in the works, according to blueprints decorated with cartoon animals and wispy shooting stars in the style of Disney's Fantasia. The image of spindly glass skyscrapers reflected on the water bears a striking resemblance to Dubai, funded by government revenue from fossil fuel extraction. But whereas Dubai is already bankrupt, here construction continues. At least, for now.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/02/18/chinas_high_growth_ghost_towns

II

Damn lies and Chinese statistics

By David Pan

GUANGZHOU - Despite Beijing's repeated warning that it would severely punish officials falsifying economic statistics, the latest figures show regional officials continue to cook the books to inflate local economic growth.

According to the National Bureau of Statistics (NBS), China's gross domestic product (GDP) grew 10.9% in the first half of this year. However, the average of GDP growth rates of the 31 provinces on the mainland of China far exceeded 12% during the same period. In real terms, the sum of GDP figures of all provinces was 804.8 billion yuan more than the national figure reported by the NBS.

Data earlier released by the National Development and Reform



Commission shows that every province recorded double-digit growth in the first half of this year, with 23 of them having a growth rate of higher than 12%. Inner Mongolia attained 18.2%, Jiangshu 15.4%, Shandong 15.3%, Tianjin and Guangdong both 14.4%, Zhejiang 14.1%, Henan 13.9%, Guangxi 13.6%, Hebei 13.5% and Sichuan 13.3%. Only three province reported slightly growth lower than the national rate: Yunnan, Ningxia and Gansu.

People may ask: which should be China's real GDP, the NBS figures or those reported by the provinces?

"It is common in China that the mean GDP figure of provinces is higher than the national one given by the NBS," said Gao Huiqing, a researcher with the State Council's Information Center. "For some years, the provinces' mean GDP growth figures have been some three to four percentage points higher than the national ones. I believe that the latter is more reliable because the NBS is capable of rectifying the errors found in the provincial reports."

Li Deshui, former NBS director, had once written to point out that the discrepancy between the statistical figures of the local and central governments, a tendency that is worsening every year, stems from the authorities' ineffective crackdown on falsification of statistics by local officials.

Analysts say the fundamental cause of such a malpractice lies in the problematic statistics system currently adopted in the country. Basically, the NBS and provinces use the same methods to derive GDP figures. Apart from some difficulties on the technical side, the main problem is in the attitude and mentality of the officials when reporting statistical figures to the central government. Many local officials tend to try to look right by cooking the figures according to their needs in order to demonstrate their performance.

The system-related causes of such malpractice are twofold: 1) Inasmuch as the GDP figure is a "yardstick" to measure the performance of local officials, there is a strong motive for them to manipulate the statistics; 2) The local governments are given the power to do so.

The data that are most easily falsified by local officials are those in the category of the so-called "soft" information, such as the amount of investment. Another common falsification is duplicate calculation of industrial output, which also constitutes an important part of the GDP. In many regions, trade figures are taken into calculation of the local GDP figures, causing it to become unjustifiably higher.

The current statistics system in China is working by the principle of "diversified responsibility under a unified leadership", by which the NBS claims the nominal leadership, while the all-important matters regarding personnel affairs and allocation of financial resources are held fast in the hands of the local governments. Thus local statistics officials would be more obedient to their local governments than to the NBS.

To overcome this, Qiu Xiaohua, the current NBS director, now sets a task to screen out all false information and the bureau is working on measures for this purpose. In the hope of eliminating the possibility for local officials cooking the books, the NBS's long-term goal is to let economic statistics in any given place be calculated directly by the higher authority. For instance, economic data in a province will be directly calculated by the NBS, and figures in a city calculated by the provincial statistical authority.

In a conference in May, Qiu first advocated reform in the current system, saying that the key to ending fraudulent reporting was to make statistical work independent of local governments' influence. Analysts have pointed out that falsification of economic statistics could bring disastrous consequences for China.

By falsifying figures, the local governments will suffer a credibility crisis among the public. Some social organizations may take advantage of this to spread more false information to confuse the public for their own interests, and people may also be deceived by false figures masquerading as true and scientific.

Furthermore, major decisions on macro-economic policy may be led astray on account of falsified information deviating heavily from reality. As some put it, the risky situation is just like "a blind man riding on a blind horse on the edge of an unfathomable abyss".

In short, infidelity in statistics is not only a problem of expertise or technicality, nor is it just one of economics and society. It is an unmistakable symbol of unsound political ecology. As long as the performance appraisal of officials by the GDP yardstick and the promotion of officials based on economic statistics is not banished, as long as the liars and cheaters are not punished, as long as those who dare to expose officials' falsification of economic statistics are suppressed, it is impossible to get rid of statistics falsification and its disastrous consequences.

David Pan is a freelance writer based in Guangzhou.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/HH19Ad01.html

III

China Launch Gaffe: Who Should We Believe?


But this feat pails into insignificance when compared with another stunning achievement. The Chinese authorities have shown that not only can they blast man into space – following in the pioneering footsteps of Russia and the USA – they also have the ability to foresee the future. Either that, or they've found a way to travel through time. Amazing as it may sound, it really did happen; transcripts of a "future" conversation between the Shenzhou-7 astronauts, whilst in orbit, were published on the official Chinese news website hours before the rocket engines had even ignited"¦

Wow!

"After this order, signal lights all were switched on, various data show up on rows of screens, hundreds of technicians staring at the screens, without missing any slightest changes"¦

"One minute to go!"

"Changjiang No.1 found the target!"

"The firm voice of the controller broke the silence of the whole ship. Now, the target is captured 12 seconds ahead of the predicted time"¦"

"The air pressure in the cabin is normal!"

"Ten minutes later, the ship disappears below the horizon. Warm clapping and excited cheering breaks the night sky, echoing across the silent Pacific Ocean."

- Apparent dialogue between the three Chinese astronauts on board Shenzhou-7 shortly after launch (text was published online hours before lift-off, and the article was dated for release on September 27th).

Read more: http://www.astroengine.com/2008/09/china-launch-gaffe-who-should-we-believe/#ixzz1DuRIKT2I

The above text says it all. The launch was successful and the three astronauts on board Shenzhou-7 were able to report that everything was working as expected, plus some nice narrative to give some atmosphere. The only problem was that this transcript was published on the official Chinese news website Xinhuanet.com long before Shenzhou-7 had even been launched atop the Long-March II-F rocket. The article, as if predicting the future, was dated for a September 27th release (two days from now), remained online for several hours before it was pulled offline. An Associated Press journalist was able to retrieve the text before it disappeared.

So this poses some difficult questions. Why would the Chinese space agency (or other government agency) prepare a pre-emptive article in the first place? Surely, if the mission was a success (as it seems to be) a real transcript could be recorded and published in real time. Does this mean Chinese officials were preparing for the worse, writing a fictitious article to cover up a failed launch? If this were true, who's to say a manned launch happened at all? OK, this is pushing into the realms of conspiracyville, but it's only natural for suspicions to be roused.

The People's Republic of China has some heavy communist overtones, and much of the news is controlled by the state. This can only add to the concern that we're not hearing the whole story.


http://www.astroengine.com/2008/09/china-launch-gaffe-who-should-we-believe/

Says it all, right?


Honest, upright, hard working Chinese (full of deceit, chicanery and super skulduggery, what?)

All the examples above are good sounding lies, isn't that so?

 

[badguy2000]

Laugh stock or not, they are not frauds who take pleasure in self deception.

Here are some examples:

I

II



III



Says it all, right?


Honest, upright, hard working Chinese (full of deceit, chicanery and super skulduggery, what?

All the examples above are good sounding lies, isn't that so?

BTW,your above quoted were also quoted by Gorden Chang....you know who is Gorden CHang.....

I just watched one CNN's interview of Gorden Chang ...this time, Gorden Chang also raised many pictures of "ghost towns" googled from internet and "confirmed" again that "CHina is to collapse by the end of 2011".then the host of CNN and Gorden Chang happily finished the interview after the "collpase day" of CHina was "redefined"

 

[Ray]

Chinese equipment and structure are copies.

India does not copy since we believe in international copyright and patents.

Heard of Daewoo Matiz?

Now see, the Chinese skuduggery!

This is a Daewoo Matiz.

Abracadabra!

It reinvents into a Chinese Cherry!

Yes, sir, it is a Daewoo Matiz, now being claimed to be an original Chinese car Cherry!

 

[Ray]

Badguy,

Just Google.

Don't whimper when exposed!

Ghost towns are well known.

The space gaffe of publishing fraud conversation even before launch is well documented.

The Matiz turned Cherry is well known and can be seen.

The statistics churned out are bogus and all know that too.

The artificiality in the depressed Yuan and its effect is too well known for recall!

Crows do wear peacock's feather to suit their purpose so goes an old saying!

Another saying is - People who live in Glass Houses, should not throw stones!

 

[Ray]

Badguy,

Check this out about ghost towns of China.

A whole lot of photos and so I am not putting up the images to clutter the bandwidth.

http://www.businessinsider.com/pictures-chinese-ghost-cities-2010-12?slop=1

 

[badguy2000]

Badguy,

Just Google.

Don't whimper when exposed!

Ghost towns are well known.

The space gaffe of publishing fraud conversation even before launch is well documented.

The Matiz turned Cherry is well known and can be seen.

The statistics churned out are bogus and all know that too.

The artificiality in the depressed Yuan and its effect is too well known for recall!

Crows do wear peacock's feather to suit their purpose so goes an old saying!

Another saying is - People who live in Glass Houses, should not throw stones!

guy, what daily life here tells me is quite different from what "ghost towns" googled tell you and Gorden Chang.

yes, quite of lots of houses might just "weekend/vacation house" and their hosts hardly live there except weekend/vacation. But most of those houses usually have been sold out .

In CHina, it is a quite common case that one mid-class family owns two houses,one for daily life and the other for vacation/weekend. or one is in cities and the other in their hometown.

For example, My parents usually live in Beijing with my eld brother,so their house in hometown are usally not occupied,so is it a "ghost house"?

For another example, I have bought one new house in one apartment here... there are over 600 suits of houses in the apartment. most of them were bought by those guys who work in the counties beside the city.
they just live in the houses here in weekends.

 

[Ray]

Badguy,

Thank you for your educated comments.

Good to know that so many cities are vacation houses.

And all come for vacation at the same time and so the cities are ghost towns during the non vacation sojourn.

You are defending the indefensible.

Obviously, we are not that gullible to swallow such bilge.

Do spare us your discourse on Chinese fables.

Now, get back to the TOPIC.

 

[kickok1975]

frankly speaking, in most of CHinese netizens' eyes, India is usually not a threaten,but a laughing stock.such as "in 5 years, Bombay will make people forget SHanghai",LCA,Arjun,"just 5 minutes"," india to ......",and "china to collapse" fanboys such as Mr. Armand and Vladimer.

I know that the what I said h might hurt some people here,but it is still the truth.
I know that what Mr.Kickok said might sound good, but most of them are lies.

to tell one hurting turth is still bettern than to tell one good-sounding lie.

Badguy2000, have you ever investigated your so called "hurting truth" is based on facts or not? Do you find majority Indian members here are ignorant about China like people in those articles you mentioned? No, in fact from what I read here I can tell a lot of them probably know more about China than what we know about India. The ignorant could become knowledgeable if they are willing to learn. A lot of our fellow people are too arrogant to learn anything from any country consider "weaker". Some people are always worship powers and look down weaker, be it in domestically or internationally and unfortunately, you act like one of them. That's probably the real hurting truth.

Anyway, I admire your desire to defend China. But your threads and comments are always end up into endless no result debate. That's probably because of your "hurting style".

A side note: I think you work for Bank. Do they allow you to surf internet during working time? It must be a real good job.

 

[Ray]

He must be a "Zhongnanhai Baobiao" ,which means "The Bodyguards from Red Palace".

 

[Ray]

If India was weaker, then surely China would not have done subtle slights.

China would have done what they tried to do with Japan.

China must carry on with its false arrogance and soon will find herself encircled and rebellion inside her regions!

if pushed to the end of one's patience, one reacts.

 

[ashdoc]

frankly speaking, in most of CHinese netizens' eyes, India is usually not a threaten,but a laughing stock.such as "in 5 years, Bombay will make people forget SHanghai",LCA,Arjun,"just 5 minutes"," india to ......",and "china to collapse" fanboys such as Mr. Armand and Vladimer.

I know that the what I said h might hurt some people here,but it is still the truth.
I know that what Mr.Kickok said might sound good, but most of them are lies.

to tell one hurting turth is still bettern than to tell one good-sounding lie.

if what you say is true ,then china wouldn't be propping up pakistan with nuclear weapons and missiles and other armaments........obviously , it takes the indians much more seriously than you say it does.