Why india is not a great nation!

Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by bengalraider, Oct 25, 2009.

  1. bengalraider

    bengalraider DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    This article i am posting has been written by
    Major General Mrinal Suman, AVSM, VSM, PhD, commanded an Engineer Regiment on the Siachen Glacier, the most hostile battlefield in the world. A highly qualified officer (B Tech, MA (Public Administration), MSc (Defence Studies) and a Doctorate in Public Administration) he was also the Task Force Commander at Pokhran and was responsible for designing and sinking shafts for the nuclear tests of May 1998.

    India as a nation has collective amnesia we tend to remember our soldiers only when we are in the midst of conflict,even though as a nation we have immense respect for the jawan . i have never seen anybody who did not look upon an armyman without a sense of brotherly love and respect. This is a beautiful article one of the best i have ever read.
     
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  3. sky

    sky Regular Member

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    Here in britian newspaper's play a very good role in there constant support for our armed forces and produce great articles written about them.They then take that to a higher level by supporting charities that help service men ,like help for heroes and the poppie day appeal.India is a very patriotic county and may be a indian version of help for heroes would not only support injured service men,who have made a big sacrafice serving there country but also panit the armed forces in a better light.
    :india:
     
  4. sky

    sky Regular Member

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    Both these countries have a long and proud military history,one was and the other is a super power.both are developed where by india is not,give it 20 years and and lets see if things change.I say this because if your struggling to just get by,your only focus is you and your family.you dont have the luxury of taking time out to help some one or support charities.
     
  5. arya

    arya Senior Member Senior Member

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    hi

    no one and nothing is above the nation

    nation proud is more important then any one i mean any one

    jai hind
     
  6. bengalraider

    bengalraider DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    another good article in the same vein!

    Where have all our heroes gone?
    By Ramananda Sengupta
    Tuesday, 11 December , 2007, 21:07

    Do you remember Dinesh Raghuraman? Or K P Vinay Kumar?

    Unless they were your friends or family members, chances are that the names of these two army majors mean nothing to you.

    Both of them died early October, fighting terrorists in Kashmir. Read story.

    Both are now mere statistics: according to the South Asia Terrorism Portal or South Asia Terrorism Portal, 62 members of our security forces made the ultimate sacrifice till November 21 this year.

    Men in uniform, sworn to protect and to defend. And if needed, to die for the country.

    I know that this is the season of goodwill and cheer, and perhaps not the time to discuss this. But then again, the officers and men protecting our borders are probably missing their families too, even as they battle terrorists and inclement weather.

    I have always wondered what it takes for a person to be willing to die for the flag.

    I have also wondered how the families of these usually young people react to the event. Was the sacrifice by their loved one worth it? Is their obvious grief and sorrow tinged with pride? Or is there only regret, and the obvious question: Why?

    Let me come at this from another way: Do we, as a nation, understand and appreciate these sacrifices? Do we honour and cherish our heroes, for that is what they are? or do we take them for granted?

    Is the token annual ceremonial salute at the Amar Jawan Jyoti all that we have for them? Is a pension and perhaps a medal all that we can offer them?

    Forget the dead: do we even honour our living heroes?

    This December 16 marks the 36th anniversary of the liberation of Bangladesh. On that day in 1971, the Pakistani army ate crow by publicly surrendering the East to General Jagjit Singh Aurora. It is often described as the Indian Army's finest hour.

    But today, how many of us are aware, or even care, that the then Eastern Command chief, General JFR Jacob, the man who actually negotiated the surrender of East Pakistan in 1971, lives in a small apartment in New Delhi's Som Vihar? Today, he is not even invited for official events to commemorate the occasion.

    How many of us have even heard of General Ian Cardozo, who used his khukri to sever his left foot, which was turning gangrenous after being wounded in East Pakistan during the last days of that war?

    That did not stop him from becoming the first disabled officer to command an infantry battalion, when he was appointed a Colonel of the Regiment of 5 GR (FF). And subsequently commanding a brigade and a division, encouraging and setting a precedent for other war-disabled officers.

    General Cardozo, who was commissioned into 1/5 Gorkha Rifles in June 1958, had also taken part in the Sino-Indian War of 1962 and the war with Pakistan in 1965.

    Does the loss of a foot stop him from walking ramrod straight, from regularly writing, or indulge daily in his passion, swimming, even though he is in his early eighties? No sir.

    But what have we, as a nation, done for him? Zero. Zilch.

    Speaking of khukris, how many of us know about Captain Mahendra Nath Mulla, who in true naval tradition, went down on December 9, 1971, with the INS Khukri, the only ship we ever lost in war?

    Till the very end, he was seen frantically helping his crew to escape from the torpedoed vessel before it was swallowed by the sea.

    It took a General Cardozo to write a book about this act which "upholds the highest traditions of the armed forces and exemplifies the upper limits of cold courage."

    In my book, these are Our Heroes. In my book, these are the people we need to cherish, remember and salute.

    Yet it took national outrage before our Service Chiefs were exempted from frisking at our airports. While our politicians (most of whom have mile-long criminal chargesheets against them), and in some cases even their distant relatives, gleefully enjoy such privileges.

    What message are we sending out to our men in uniform? That the people who head our armed forces pose a security risk? While our politicians, many of whom can be compared unfavorably with the north end of south-bound cows, leave alone headless chickens, do not?
    [​IMG]
    Villagers return the body of a BSF jawan killed during clashes with the Bangladesh Rifles (AP)

    My blood still boils each time I recall the picture of our BSF jawans, killed by the Bangladesh Rifles during a border skirmish in April 2001, being returned trussed up on poles, as if they were animal carcasses.

    But how did we, as a nation, react to this barbaric act by a small nation that we can flood at will by just opening up the sluice gates at the Farakka Barrage? Was there even a muted protest from our leaders? Not that I recall.
    Because our politicians were far too concerned about the implications this would have on their vote banks. Who cares about our armed forces losing face?

    Speaking at the release of his book on INS Khukri on a cold Delhi evening, General Cardozo, flanked by Captain Mulla's wife and daughter, declared: "It is sad that while the armed forces and these women lose their husbands in battle, we do not have a national war memorial. India Gate is a memorial built by the British for those who died in World War I and II.

    "What have we done as a nation? We have fought wars in 1947-48, 1962, 1965 and 1971- but what do we have? An upturned rifle with a helmet on top, with Amar Jawan written on it. Is that all we can do? I believe that a nation which does not honour its war dead dishonours itself."

    As we enter another year, it is important to remember that message. Otherwise, we might not remain a country worth dying for.

    The author is the Chief Editor of Sify.com. The views expressed here are his own.
     
  7. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Coming from a country that worships our war heroes, has celebrations for the most inane minutia, and places memorials and placards for anything --- coming from this culture I can say government honourings for the military is not the most important factor. What matters is how the government treats the soldiers and veterans in its charge. There is a culture that has arisen since the fall of the CCCP that military service is not only demeaning, but deadly. The only way in the past 10 years has been to keep people in service is to promise them stationing in the North Caucasian Military District where they can get decent combat pay and housing for their families. While pay and housing are being increased across the board while abuse is drastically reduced, the mentatility that military service is the path to an early grave is still prevalent throughout our youth. Our veterans pensions still do not catch up with inflation and many of them are in poverty. All the memorials, parades, and celebrations aren't doing a damned thing to change the perception of the military. The only thing that does is real institutional reform. Now that salaries are going to be tripled, dedovshina is down 1500%, and families will be allowed to house with their fathers --- things are looking up.

    How does Indian MoD treat her soldiers? Is pay good? Do based troops get housing with their families? Are pensions enough to live good retirement? These are the core questions you should really be focusing on.
     
  8. bengalraider

    bengalraider DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    @VLAD
    As far as housing and other benefits are concerned the Indian miltary takes care of it's own , the indian soldier has access to good housing and healthcare without restriction on rank. however the pay issue has raised it's head once again after the 6th pay commision recommendations, these recommendations hurt the morale of our forces more than anything else!Pension disparties between the armed forces and other government departments led to several protest letters aby the service heads, the veterans were given a even worse deal their remuneration was way below their expectations and led to ex-servicemen surrendering their medals to the president.

     
  9. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Just found the pay grade for commissioned officers... Sepoys make Rs. 3050.

    Lt. Rs. 8250--10050
    Capt. Rs. 9600--11400
    Major Rs. 11600--14850
    Lt. Col. Rs. 13500--17100
    Col. Rs. 15100--17350
    Brig. Rs. 16700--18050
    Maj. Gen. Rs. 18400--22400
    Lt. Gen. Rs. 22400--24500
    Vice Chief of the Army staff and Army Cards-Rs. 26000/- (Fixed)
    Chief of the Army Staff-Rs. 30000/- (Fixed)

    Sheesh, our newly minted professional sergeants are making twice as much as your Army Chief of Staff. That is ridiculous.
     
  10. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    No wonder Indian Services suffer from an acute shortage of competent people. But to be fair one needs to factor in perks, allowances, pensions and retirement bonuses.
     
  11. bengalraider

    bengalraider DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    That is the old scale i am posting the link to the new revised payscales(6th pay commision)



    Press Information Bureau
    Government of India


    Monday, September 01, 2008
    Ministry of Defence

    NEW PAY SCALES OF DEFENCE FORCES OFFICERS
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    19:33 IST

    The Ministry of Defence has notified the new paybands along with grade-pay and Military Service Pay for Defence Forces Officers following the recommendations of the Sixth Central Pay Commission.

    (in Rs.)

    Post
    Pay Band
    Grade Pay
    Military Service Pay #

    Lieutenant / equivalent
    15600-39100
    5400
    6000

    Capt / equivalent
    15600-39100
    6100
    6000

    Major / equivalent
    15600-39100
    6600
    6000

    Lt. Col / equivalent
    15600-39100
    7600
    6000

    Colonel/equivalent @
    37400-67000
    8700
    6000

    Brigadier/equivalent @
    37400-67000
    8900
    6000

    Major Gen/equivalent
    37400-67000
    10000
    Nil*

    Lt Gen / equivalent
    37400-67000
    12000
    Nil

    Vice Chiefs and Army Cdr / equivalent
    80000

    (fixed)
    Nil
    Nil

    Service Chiefs
    90000

    (fixed)
    Nil
    Nil




    # No arears on account of Military Service Pay shall be payable.

    * The element of Military Service Pay shall be taken on account for purposes of fitment at the time of promotion from Brigadier/equivalent to Major General / equivalent.

    @ Colonels and Brigadiers to be placed in the Revised Pay Band IV (Rs. 37400-67000/-)


    Linl:http://pib.nic.in/release/rel_print_page1.asp?relid=42155
     
  12. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Has military service pay been notified by 6th pay commission yet? Those numbers seem uncertain in actual pay.
     
  13. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Pay and perks. These are not the revised pay from the sixth pay commission. The revised salary will start from April next year.

    Indian Air Force : Career Opportunities

    The revised pay will be far greater, by as much as 40%.
     

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