Why India is not a great nation! A discussion

Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by bengalraider, Oct 24, 2009.

  1. bengalraider

    bengalraider DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    This is from an article by
    Major General Mrinal Suman, AVSM, VSM, PhD, commanded an Engineer Regiment on the Siachen Glacier, the most hostile battlefield in the world. A highly qualified officer (B Tech, MA (Public Administration), MSc (Defence Studies) and a Doctorate in Public Administration) he was also the Task Force Commander at Pokhran and was responsible for designing and sinking shafts for the nuclear tests of May 1998.

     
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  3. AkhandBharat

    AkhandBharat Regular Member

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    The reason why India is still struggling is because of a myriad of reasons:

    1) Appointing incompetent people through reservations (to make up for past amends ofcourse) who cannot do their daily job inefficiently. Most of them are in governmental positions of power and breed corruption. The country is bleeding its best minds to foreign nations that promise them decent standard of living for their contribution to its economy while at the same time appointing incompetent people to administrative positions!

    2) Corruption is so rampant, its like a third degree cancer in India. The tumor has taken over the normal cells. Every government employee expects some form of tribute to be given even if he/she are doing daily jobs. It has not changed even with the pay commission revisions providing decent salaries to public sector employees thus negating the notion that meagre salaries are responsible for such behavior. People will commit crime if they are given the chance to, which means the judicial arm should be powerful enough to dole out justice in a timely and efficient way, to reward the hard working and weed out the corrupt.

    3) No access to quality education in rural areas, leading to two worlds with a wide chasm amongst them inside the country itself.

    4) No access to health care, leading to massive malnutrition, leading to inferior growth. Ever wondered, why a tiny island ruled a nation so vast? The reason was the same. There was a big difference between the elites and the have-nots leading to the policy of everyone looking out for themselves, ultimately culminating into traitors at first, and then wars amongst the kingdoms themselves.

    The big question is: Every political party in India is still playing the same game with China breathing down under our neck.

    What little we have achieved, is despite the governance of the state. There is very little innovation in the sciences and engineering because there is no collaboration between the educational institutes in India and the industry. The so-called IITs are not ranked in the top 100 institutions of the world, despite them attracting the best talents amongst a billion people. The same students do a lot better when they are picked up by foreign institutions, but cannot perform well in the country because of bureaucracy which has spread even in the private sector.

    The private sector is not at all concerned with innovating, because it is busy filling up the pockets of the rich elite and they don't want to take any chances by investing in innovative projects for fear of losing even a small chunk of stash. Big industrial powerhouses only invest in projects that are successful overseas and then bring it as a low cost production to cater to people in India. Enterpreneurial risk is very low amongst enterprises, while it is cut-throat in western world. The state did take risks in key projects early on, like launching its own space program, which started small, but is now sowing results and competing with the likes of Nasa and even collaborating with it, even though they operate on 1/10th of its budget.

    In my opinion, the change has to come from the ground up, if we are to be successful as a democracy. For that,

    1) The minimum requirement is education, health care and food for all. We have lifted a quarter of our people out of poverty and just look at how much the nation has transformed! Imagine where the country can go if the rest are lifted out too.

    2) The people themselves have to take the initiative to uncover the corrupt people in the administration. Once a few are dragged to jail, the rest will fall in line. But that would mean, elimination of parallel black economy, which again requires the people to come up clean and pay taxes

    3) Eliminate reservation. If reservation has to be given, it has to be only to the economically backward people, because that is all that matters in todays world. Moreover, these positions should be in non-crucial administration jobs only. This also means that education has to be provided to the masses so they have equal opportunity atleast until high school. People that show promise can always be provided loans/scholarship depending on their aptitude level.

    This has to be a grass roots movement if we have to survive against a nation that is ruled by an iron hand. Only then can we be the next united states keeping the communist neighbor at bay.
     
  4. anoop_mig25

    anoop_mig25 Senior Member Senior Member

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    thanks for article man but our article title is misleading india is great not a great nation agreed but i don`t think either USA OR UK are.yes we don`t treat our soldiers and their family properly but this largely because of us i mean people of india they allow politican to do this :thumbs_thmbdn::thumbs_thmbdn::thumbs_thmbdn:. and why we are n`t having war memorial yet. isnt india gate memorial indian? it was made in the memory of indian soldiers died in ww1
     
  5. bengalraider

    bengalraider DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    @ Mods i had staretd another thread on the same in the defence articles thread, could the two please be merged into DFI HQ keeping only the high quality posts.

    Please delete this post at your discretion!
     
  6. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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    The premise that valuing soldiers and military establishments somehow assures "greatness" of a nation or explains the success of the British and American societies is false. The article itself has very little value because the author has done a pisspoor job of making coherent arguments. He has addressed an assortment of genuine concerns without providing any valuable insights and then wrapped it up with a false conclusion.

    If honoring the military establishment was the most critical component in the making of a "great" nation then the world order today would be run by the Soviet Union, Pakistan, North Korea and Nazi Germany. Obviously this is not the case. Fawning over the military and obsessing over a military culture has turned the Pakistani nation into what is currently the biggest disaster on the planet. The Soviet Union lost its empire through its hallowed military; there is very little if anything to be said about North Korea where the military is worshiped, and Nazi Germany was the monumental disaster that preceded AfPak.

    There are many reasons why the Western civilization has been successful, in the case of the US and Britain some of the more obvious ones being modernity and success brought about by the industrial revolution, adopting the rule of law, the establishment of a solid financial system accessible on the basis of meritocracy, investments in state of the art institutions and of course impressive literacy rates.

    Also, it seems that the author is unaware of the American public sentiment during the Vietnam war or the steady decline in the public perception of the military in not only Britain but all of Western Europe after WWII; it is also worth noting that post war pacifist Japan became far greater a nation than during its stupendous militarization phase.

    This is not to say that there isn't a very serious problem in regards to parochial attitudes in the Indian society which has in the past fueled internal turmoil making it susceptible to foreign invasions and/or colonization. It is also highly evident that a substantial part of the Indian society is almost detached from its military until something bad happens. None of this however is a direct result of not respecting the military establishment in the way the author wants.
     
  7. GokuInd

    GokuInd Regular Member

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    Military and Democracy

    I think the problem is not about the Indian Armed Forces being apolitical or their unswerving loyalty to the Indian constitution but lack of democratic control over issues of National Security and Military Affairs. From what I know, the military budget in other democratic societies usually comes under close scrutiny and is subjected to intense legislative debates.

    If I ain't wrong that's not the case in India, where it is solely an issue between bureaucracies of defence and finance. That system is prone to inefficiency and has no consideration for priorities (e.g. weapon systems).

    The final budget presented to the parliament is of no use since the MPs have no details about the specific procurement measures given the excessive secrecy surrounding the civil military bureaucracy. What makes it worse, the government itself is ablle to abdicate from any responsibility since they are not supposed to divulge information for reasons of National Security.

    So I think that may be one of many reasons why there is lack of trust in the Armed Forces.
     
  8. NSG_Blackcats

    NSG_Blackcats Member of The Month OCTOBER 2009 Senior Member

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    I do not agree with the title of this thread. I do not know from where this title comes from. I want to know what the definition of a great nation is. If any member can provide me name of some great nations I will be grateful. For me no country, no society and no system are perfect. It is up to the people who are part of that country or society or system to try to bring necessary changes in them.

    I feel the author is really confused. He started with United States of America and also mentioned that it is the undisputed world power. So the question is does US is a great nation? The answer will be yes and no.

    Why yes? Because of less corruption; political system is more accountable; standard of living is very good; education system (especially research and development) is good. Why No? Because it is the only country that had used nuclear weapon; partly responsible for training terrorists; killed many people in many parts of the world; double standard on NPT and CTBT; etc.

    Now we cannot compare India with US. Because of the following reasons:-
    1. US do not have a neighbor like Pakistan and it will never face cross border terrorism.
    2. There is a big difference between the population of US and India.
    3. US got its independence some 233 years ago. India got its independence 62 years ago.

    Again the author asked a question “why has Britain remained undefeated for centuries?” I do not know what he want to prove. I hope everyone is aware of the fact how many people are killed by British all over the world. So there is no relation between being remain undefeated and greatness of a country.

    For me there is nothing more to say. I know India is facing a lot of issues and we are trying to resolve them. But I am proud to be part of a country and a Civilization which never invaded any country in its history.

    If the author has based his argument on level of corruption, standard of living, accountability of political system, criminal justice system in India that would have been great.
     
  9. StealthSniper

    StealthSniper Senior Member Senior Member

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    In my opinion India is a great nation, it's just how people look at it or percieve it. For example it's very easy to look at the corruption, the pollution and the negative factors of a growing country. Also people that think of a "great" nation think of a country that is rich and powerful. But if you look a little deeper into India, you see that in 62 years we have done extraordinary things. We have a large multidimensional population that for the most part gets along, we have a young bright willing population that doesn't take no for an answer and we also have done things indigenously without much help like our space program that has been hugely successful. We worked hard to get the world to notice us, although we have done hard things in the past without much help.

    In the end sure I wish their was no corruption and India was in a better positon in regards to the poor people in India, but if you look at the last 62 years, I believe that the people of India have and will continue to show the world that a young democracy can overcome hurdles and find ways to make India even more successful in the future.
     
  10. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    india is great and powerful.only thing is that like hanuman we dont realise that we r powerful.we need someone to tell us about our power.another thing is we dont know how to use our power for fear of morality which we care about a lot but we dont realise we dont ve any morality too....hamam main sab nange,so y care about morality?
    :twizt:
     

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