Why India is losing respect for its Army...

Discussion in 'Internal Security' started by Zebra, Jun 17, 2015.

  1. Zebra

    Zebra Senior Member Senior Member

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    http://idrw.org/why-india-is-losing-respect-for-its-army/

    Why India is losing respect for its Army

    Published June 17, 2015 | By admin
    SOURCE: COLONEL (RETD.) VIVEK CHADHA / DAILYMAIL

    Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar has said that respect for the Indian Army is waning, as India has not fought a war in decades. He went on to give the example of letters sent by commanding officers to the district administration not receiving the requisite attention.

    His statement has led to a debate questioning its implications, and assertions of pride in the Indian Army from his detractors. It raises the fundamental question regarding the outlook of our country and its people towards the Army, and whether this has been affected by the absence of a major war since 1971.

    The answer to this question is apparent to me, having served in the Army for a little more than 22 years. This is borne by my interaction with a wide cross-section of people in various deployment areas of the country, both peace and field.

    At an individual level, a soldier is still respected and the people at large do look up to them for the sacrifices they make. Just a couple of days back, on my way to the Lok Sabha TV studio, I was casually chatting with the cab driver. He was his normal self, until he realised that I had served in the Army, till a few years back. His attitude transformed completely thereafter. I was humbled to hear him consider it an honour to drive an Army officer.

    He went on to speak about the countless challenges faced and sacrifices made by soldiers in the line of duty. He saved his special concluding appreciation for the recent raid by the army in Myanmar.

    This is by far the attitude of most people I come across as an individual and an officer of the Indian Army. However, this does not answer the question previously raised. And therein lies the rub.

    The Army faces a dichotomy, wherein individuals hold soldiers in high esteem, even as institutions which must cater to their problems, display disdain. The example quoted by the defence minister related to problems of soldiers not receiving adequate attention, is an everyday challenge faced by battalions deployed in the far-flung areas of the country.

    Soldiers from small and often remote districts are unable to take long vacations with their families. This robs them of any real chance to resolve their legal issues – and as a result, they are often at the receiving end of disputes.

    In the past, commanding officers would correspond regularly with the district administration and immediate action would follow, with a feedback, mostly confirming early resolution.

    A similar approach was evident initially in areas where the army is deployed for counter-insurgency operations. I remember having been able to get electricity transformers replaced in remote areas of Doda district in 1995 as a company commander, merely based on a letter to the chief engineer. The same cannot be imagined today.

    These changes can be attributed to two factors. First, prolonged periods of Army deployment have limited its appeal in border areas and regions which are affected by insurgency and terrorism.

    The law of diminishing returns is increasingly becoming applicable to the army’s protracted deployment. Over a period of time, the sacrifices tend to fade, even as rare cases of violations become the benchmark for judging soldiers.

    In other cases, local sentiments tend to overshadow larger national objectives. The writing on the railway siding walls rechristening IPKF, from Indian Peace Keeping Force to Innocent People Killing Force, remains etched in my mind, since the time I saw it in 1990, at Chennai, as a young officer.

    Second, as the defence minister laments and has often been said in the past, armies tend to lose their sheen when not seen fighting an external adversary. Their raison d’etre is questioned, as are their rights and privileges, both within and outside the power circles.

    Surprisingly, this tendency is also not new, since it was noted by Rudyard Kipling well before the country gained independence: “In times of war and not before, God and soldier we adore. But in times of peace and all things righted, God is forgotten and the soldier slighted.”
     
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  3. Zebra

    Zebra Senior Member Senior Member

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    Apart from this article, which title is more appropriate .......

    a: Why Indians are losing respect for their Army

    b: Why India is losing respect for its Army

    What say...?
     
  4. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    The India really losing respect for its army. Answer is a NO.

    Stop creating artificial nonsense- I am looking at you DM
     
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  5. OneGrimPilgrim

    OneGrimPilgrim Senior Member Senior Member

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    whr invaders hv been eulogised, heroes binned!!
    even i agree; i don't think nor find any evidence of Indian public in general losing respect for the Army. its the BABUS, govt. officers, etc. that throw tantrums, but it has been like this with them for almost all the time - condescending & a false supremacist attitude towards the Armed Forces, recent example of that being the OROP fiasco. and apart from them, the new breed of left-extremists, the JNU-types, the communists and their college-pests like the APSC, etc. but even this ilk has also always existed in modern India, only difference being that with the advent of internet and social networking platforms, they get to shout, moan, cry, whine a lot and the high decibel levels reach farther now, and anti-national tendencies they have always carried as it is.

    if IA or other wings today start PR campaigns among public like say their US or filipino or other counterparts, they/the DM will be in for a pleasant surprise! or perhaps DM may've his finger towards the leftie-scum itself, but didn't word his concern with specifics.
    anyway, the MoD and ministers like Gen. VK Singh should keep naming-and-shaming the turds of this country and keep sharing updates like the Yemen rescue ops episode, and they'll again see & get a humongous support from the public like the last time!
     
  6. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

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    That is BS. India has one of the highest willingness to defend the country and they most lov their armee.

    "If there were a war that involved [your country], would you be willing to fight for your country?"

    (ranked by net balance)

    94-05 Fiji [+89]
    94-06 Morocco [+88]
    85-01 Azerbaijan [+84]
    89-07 Pakistan [+82]
    89-09 Vietnam [+80]
    84-08 Papua New Guinea [+76]
    86-12 Bangladesh [+74]
    72-13 Thailand [+59]
    76-18 Georgia [+58]
    75-17 India [+58]
    76-20 Afghanistan [+56]
    69-13 Kazakhstan [+56]
    74-20 Finland [+54]
    70-17 Indonesia [+53]
    66-13 Israel [+53]
    73-21 Turkey [+52]
    72-23 Armenia [+49]
    71-23 China [+48]
    63-18 Malaysia [+45]
    70-26 Philippines [+44]
    69-27 Kenya [+42]
    55-15 Sweden [+40]
    59-20 Russia [+39]
    62-24 Ukraine [+38]
    66-30 Lebanon [+36]
    58-24 Kosovo [+34]
    64-32 Panama [+32]
    61-32 Peru [+29]
    56-27 Palestinian Territories [+29]
    54-27 Greece [+27]
    61-36 Colombia [+25]
    54-35 Ecuador [+19]
    55-39 Bosnia & Herzegovina [+16]
    56-41 Mexico [+15]
    41-27 Latvia [+14]
    47-34 Poland [+13]
    44-31 USA [+13]
    46-36 Serbia [+10]
    50-46 Nigeria [+4]
    48-44 Brazil [+4]

    43-43 Argentina [+/-0]
    37-37 Denmark [+/-0]

    38-40 Ireland [-2]
    38-41 Romania [-3]
    39-47 Switzerland [-8]
    42-50 South Korea [-8]
    38-49 Macedonia [-9]
    30-43 Australia [-13]
    30-45 Canada [-15]
    29-44 France [-15]
    28-47 Portugal [-19]
    25-47 Bulgaria [-22]
    27-51 UK [-24]
    26-52 Iceland [-26]
    21-49 Spain [-28]
    10-43 Japan [-33]
    23-57 Hong Kong [-34]
    19-56 Belgium [-37]
    23-64 Czech Republic [-41]
    21-62 Austria [-41]
    18-62 Germany [-44]
    20-68 Italy [-48]
    15-64 Netherlands [-49]

    Iraq: no data
    Saudi Arabia: no data

    http://www.wingia.com/en/services/end_of_year_survey_2014/regional_country_results/8/46/
     
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  7. SafedSagar

    SafedSagar Regular Member

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    So who was saving people in Uttrakhand floods & Kashmir Floods? Was it State Police or BJP karyakartas? :facepalm:
    What a retarded statement by the Defence Minister. I don't expect this kind of BS at least from Manohar Parrikar.
     
  8. OneGrimPilgrim

    OneGrimPilgrim Senior Member Senior Member

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    whr invaders hv been eulogised, heroes binned!!
    re-reading the article, it again seems that the DM's indication was towards the babus and public admin officials IMO; plus, a message to the left-leaning politicians, probably a somewhat emotional reaction to the ruckus created by them over an earlier statement of the DM and recently the counter-strike.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2015
  9. ezsasa

    ezsasa Senior Member Senior Member

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    Read the full statement by DM, not just what is repeated in the media before you jump to conclusions.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  10. Ancient Indian

    Ancient Indian Unplugged Version Senior Member

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    Why the heck you guys start the threads based on propaganda news items?

    The biggest enemies of India are fellow Indians.

    I hate too much freedom for every citizen.
     
  11. Ancient Indian

    Ancient Indian Unplugged Version Senior Member

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    Why the heck you guys start the threads based on propaganda news items?

    The biggest enemies of India are fellow Indians.

    I hate too much freedom for every citizen.
     
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  12. Illusive

    Illusive Senior Member Senior Member

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    Media twisting words again.....i think DM needs to choose his words carefully.
     
  13. Ankit Purohit

    Ankit Purohit Senior Member Senior Member

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    There is no one to control this media .

    Indian Army is the great Institution that India knows .
     
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  14. Rowdy

    Rowdy Co ja kurwa czytam! Senior Member

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    Well that is a very very deceptive survey because it fails to capture, in the case of India, one thing.
    People love their country ( except radical leftists) here. No doubt. And If tomorrow an announcement is made that we need a militia to fight off an invasion , I am sure many would line up.
    But the non-war role of the Army is coming under attack. Delays in procurement , rumors of corruption etc etc. Note that this does not mean people love their army less. I love my army especially since they have kept away from politics and have been involved many times in disaster management and relief. (now we have a dedicated agency)
    But yeah the army has lost a bit of its sheen and, in the eyes of some(at least me),is being seen as another constitutional agency. Important but imperfect.
    Just take a look at this thread to understand what I mean
    http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...uristic-vehicle-for-its-armoured-corps.68514/
     
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  15. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

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    1.1 million men army without wars. I understand the frustration. Good thing about our conscript system is that at peacetime army is around 30000 and can be mobilized to 300000 in few weeks. No frustration.

    One interesting fact is that in WWII India was officially at war against Finland, but to my knowledge not one casualty resulted in that conflict. Now it would be a good change to see what would happen today. I noticed that you have about 600 fighter, we have only sixty, but have managed to score 18:1 kill ratio against NATO fighters. It would be interesting to have exercises and see which Air Force would emerge victorious.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2015
  16. Rowdy

    Rowdy Co ja kurwa czytam! Senior Member

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    You can't compare actually. Simply because we are a different kind of country. Most european countries are small and homogenous which leads to a high level of trust in the government. India is large very very large and diverse (as we did not form through genocide/land grabbing )so 10x mobilization is not possible, without sacrificing on quality.
    I believe you'd be far far away from that ratio.....but in which direction is hard to say .... :lol: either we will be pretty good or pretty bad.
     
  17. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

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    I agree on all, but sacrificing the quality...one advantage conscription has is that all talents of the age group is used. Professional military only attracts small portion of the age group. I am sure both systems are fine, conscription would not fit to India.
     
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  18. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    India can afford to keep a big army and pay its soldiers. I doubt if Finland can fund half of its population as army!!

    Btw, half of these conscripts these days end up playing organs in the army without doing any real stuff!
     
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  19. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    Why would one need a conscription when the voluntary army itself is sufficient as of now?

    BTW, Indian Govt does have the power of Drafting in an emergency.
     
  20. Spindrift

    Spindrift Regular Member

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    that would be under Article 51A (d) of the The Constitution Of India.
     

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