Why India is losing respect for its Army...

Zebra

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2011
Messages
6,060
Likes
2,303
Country flag
http://idrw.org/why-india-is-losing-respect-for-its-army/

Why India is losing respect for its Army

Published June 17, 2015 | By admin
SOURCE: COLONEL (RETD.) VIVEK CHADHA / DAILYMAIL

Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar has said that respect for the Indian Army is waning, as India has not fought a war in decades. He went on to give the example of letters sent by commanding officers to the district administration not receiving the requisite attention.

His statement has led to a debate questioning its implications, and assertions of pride in the Indian Army from his detractors. It raises the fundamental question regarding the outlook of our country and its people towards the Army, and whether this has been affected by the absence of a major war since 1971.

The answer to this question is apparent to me, having served in the Army for a little more than 22 years. This is borne by my interaction with a wide cross-section of people in various deployment areas of the country, both peace and field.

At an individual level, a soldier is still respected and the people at large do look up to them for the sacrifices they make. Just a couple of days back, on my way to the Lok Sabha TV studio, I was casually chatting with the cab driver. He was his normal self, until he realised that I had served in the Army, till a few years back. His attitude transformed completely thereafter. I was humbled to hear him consider it an honour to drive an Army officer.

He went on to speak about the countless challenges faced and sacrifices made by soldiers in the line of duty. He saved his special concluding appreciation for the recent raid by the army in Myanmar.

This is by far the attitude of most people I come across as an individual and an officer of the Indian Army. However, this does not answer the question previously raised. And therein lies the rub.

The Army faces a dichotomy, wherein individuals hold soldiers in high esteem, even as institutions which must cater to their problems, display disdain. The example quoted by the defence minister related to problems of soldiers not receiving adequate attention, is an everyday challenge faced by battalions deployed in the far-flung areas of the country.

Soldiers from small and often remote districts are unable to take long vacations with their families. This robs them of any real chance to resolve their legal issues – and as a result, they are often at the receiving end of disputes.

In the past, commanding officers would correspond regularly with the district administration and immediate action would follow, with a feedback, mostly confirming early resolution.

A similar approach was evident initially in areas where the army is deployed for counter-insurgency operations. I remember having been able to get electricity transformers replaced in remote areas of Doda district in 1995 as a company commander, merely based on a letter to the chief engineer. The same cannot be imagined today.

These changes can be attributed to two factors. First, prolonged periods of Army deployment have limited its appeal in border areas and regions which are affected by insurgency and terrorism.

The law of diminishing returns is increasingly becoming applicable to the army’s protracted deployment. Over a period of time, the sacrifices tend to fade, even as rare cases of violations become the benchmark for judging soldiers.

In other cases, local sentiments tend to overshadow larger national objectives. The writing on the railway siding walls rechristening IPKF, from Indian Peace Keeping Force to Innocent People Killing Force, remains etched in my mind, since the time I saw it in 1990, at Chennai, as a young officer.

Second, as the defence minister laments and has often been said in the past, armies tend to lose their sheen when not seen fighting an external adversary. Their raison d’etre is questioned, as are their rights and privileges, both within and outside the power circles.

Surprisingly, this tendency is also not new, since it was noted by Rudyard Kipling well before the country gained independence: “In times of war and not before, God and soldier we adore. But in times of peace and all things righted, God is forgotten and the soldier slighted.”
 

Zebra

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2011
Messages
6,060
Likes
2,303
Country flag
Apart from this article, which title is more appropriate .......

a: Why Indians are losing respect for their Army

b: Why India is losing respect for its Army

What say...?
 

Mad Indian

Proud Bigot
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2012
Messages
12,835
Likes
7,762
Country flag
The India really losing respect for its army. Answer is a NO.

Stop creating artificial nonsense- I am looking at you DM
 

OneGrimPilgrim

Senior Member
Joined
May 18, 2015
Messages
5,243
Likes
6,810
Country flag
even i agree; i don't think nor find any evidence of Indian public in general losing respect for the Army. its the BABUS, govt. officers, etc. that throw tantrums, but it has been like this with them for almost all the time - condescending & a false supremacist attitude towards the Armed Forces, recent example of that being the OROP fiasco. and apart from them, the new breed of left-extremists, the JNU-types, the communists and their college-pests like the APSC, etc. but even this ilk has also always existed in modern India, only difference being that with the advent of internet and social networking platforms, they get to shout, moan, cry, whine a lot and the high decibel levels reach farther now, and anti-national tendencies they have always carried as it is.

if IA or other wings today start PR campaigns among public like say their US or filipino or other counterparts, they/the DM will be in for a pleasant surprise! or perhaps DM may've his finger towards the leftie-scum itself, but didn't word his concern with specifics.
anyway, the MoD and ministers like Gen. VK Singh should keep naming-and-shaming the turds of this country and keep sharing updates like the Yemen rescue ops episode, and they'll again see & get a humongous support from the public like the last time!
 

jouni

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2014
Messages
3,900
Likes
1,138
That is BS. India has one of the highest willingness to defend the country and they most lov their armee.

"If there were a war that involved [your country], would you be willing to fight for your country?"

(ranked by net balance)

94-05 Fiji [+89]
94-06 Morocco [+88]
85-01 Azerbaijan [+84]
89-07 Pakistan [+82]
89-09 Vietnam [+80]
84-08 Papua New Guinea [+76]
86-12 Bangladesh [+74]
72-13 Thailand [+59]
76-18 Georgia [+58]
75-17 India [+58]
76-20 Afghanistan [+56]
69-13 Kazakhstan [+56]
74-20 Finland [+54]
70-17 Indonesia [+53]
66-13 Israel [+53]
73-21 Turkey [+52]
72-23 Armenia [+49]
71-23 China [+48]
63-18 Malaysia [+45]
70-26 Philippines [+44]
69-27 Kenya [+42]
55-15 Sweden [+40]
59-20 Russia [+39]
62-24 Ukraine [+38]
66-30 Lebanon [+36]
58-24 Kosovo [+34]
64-32 Panama [+32]
61-32 Peru [+29]
56-27 Palestinian Territories [+29]
54-27 Greece [+27]
61-36 Colombia [+25]
54-35 Ecuador [+19]
55-39 Bosnia & Herzegovina [+16]
56-41 Mexico [+15]
41-27 Latvia [+14]
47-34 Poland [+13]
44-31 USA [+13]
46-36 Serbia [+10]
50-46 Nigeria [+4]
48-44 Brazil [+4]

43-43 Argentina [+/-0]
37-37 Denmark [+/-0]

38-40 Ireland [-2]
38-41 Romania [-3]
39-47 Switzerland [-8]
42-50 South Korea [-8]
38-49 Macedonia [-9]
30-43 Australia [-13]
30-45 Canada [-15]
29-44 France [-15]
28-47 Portugal [-19]
25-47 Bulgaria [-22]
27-51 UK [-24]
26-52 Iceland [-26]
21-49 Spain [-28]
10-43 Japan [-33]
23-57 Hong Kong [-34]
19-56 Belgium [-37]
23-64 Czech Republic [-41]
21-62 Austria [-41]
18-62 Germany [-44]
20-68 Italy [-48]
15-64 Netherlands [-49]

Iraq: no data
Saudi Arabia: no data

http://www.wingia.com/en/services/end_of_year_survey_2014/regional_country_results/8/46/
 

SafedSagar

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Messages
209
Likes
319
Country flag
So who was saving people in Uttrakhand floods & Kashmir Floods? Was it State Police or BJP karyakartas? :facepalm:
What a retarded statement by the Defence Minister. I don't expect this kind of BS at least from Manohar Parrikar.
 

OneGrimPilgrim

Senior Member
Joined
May 18, 2015
Messages
5,243
Likes
6,810
Country flag
re-reading the article, it again seems that the DM's indication was towards the babus and public admin officials IMO; plus, a message to the left-leaning politicians, probably a somewhat emotional reaction to the ruckus created by them over an earlier statement of the DM and recently the counter-strike.
 
Last edited:

ezsasa

Designated Cynic
Mod
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Messages
31,905
Likes
147,985
Country flag
So who was saving people in Uttrakhand floods & Kashmir Floods? Was it State Police or BJP karyakartas? :facepalm:
What a retarded statement by the Defence Minister. I don't expect this kind of BS at least from Manohar Parrikar.
Read the full statement by DM, not just what is repeated in the media before you jump to conclusions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Ancient Indian

p = np :)
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2014
Messages
3,403
Likes
4,199
Why the heck you guys start the threads based on propaganda news items?

The biggest enemies of India are fellow Indians.

I hate too much freedom for every citizen.
 

Ancient Indian

p = np :)
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2014
Messages
3,403
Likes
4,199
Why the heck you guys start the threads based on propaganda news items?

The biggest enemies of India are fellow Indians.

I hate too much freedom for every citizen.
 

Illusive

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Messages
3,674
Likes
7,312
Country flag
Media twisting words again.....i think DM needs to choose his words carefully.
 

Ankit Purohit

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2012
Messages
1,082
Likes
667
Country flag
There is no one to control this media .

Indian Army is the great Institution that India knows .
 

Rowdy

Co ja kurwa czytam!
Senior Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
3,254
Likes
3,061
That is BS. India has one of the highest willingness to defend the country and they most lov their armee.

"If there were a war that involved [your country], would you be willing to fight for your country?"

(ranked by net balance)

94-05 Fiji [+89]
94-06 Morocco [+88]
85-01 Azerbaijan [+84]
89-07 Pakistan [+82]
89-09 Vietnam [+80]
84-08 Papua New Guinea [+76]
86-12 Bangladesh [+74]
72-13 Thailand [+59]
76-18 Georgia [+58]
75-17 India [+58]
76-20 Afghanistan [+56]
69-13 Kazakhstan [+56]
74-20 Finland [+54]
70-17 Indonesia [+53]
66-13 Israel [+53]
73-21 Turkey [+52]
72-23 Armenia [+49]
71-23 China [+48]
63-18 Malaysia [+45]
70-26 Philippines [+44]
69-27 Kenya [+42]
55-15 Sweden [+40]
59-20 Russia [+39]
62-24 Ukraine [+38]
66-30 Lebanon [+36]
58-24 Kosovo [+34]
64-32 Panama [+32]
61-32 Peru [+29]
56-27 Palestinian Territories [+29]
54-27 Greece [+27]
61-36 Colombia [+25]
54-35 Ecuador [+19]
55-39 Bosnia & Herzegovina [+16]
56-41 Mexico [+15]
41-27 Latvia [+14]
47-34 Poland [+13]
44-31 USA [+13]
46-36 Serbia [+10]
50-46 Nigeria [+4]
48-44 Brazil [+4]

43-43 Argentina [+/-0]
37-37 Denmark [+/-0]

38-40 Ireland [-2]
38-41 Romania [-3]
39-47 Switzerland [-8]
42-50 South Korea [-8]
38-49 Macedonia [-9]
30-43 Australia [-13]
30-45 Canada [-15]
29-44 France [-15]
28-47 Portugal [-19]
25-47 Bulgaria [-22]
27-51 UK [-24]
26-52 Iceland [-26]
21-49 Spain [-28]
10-43 Japan [-33]
23-57 Hong Kong [-34]
19-56 Belgium [-37]
23-64 Czech Republic [-41]
21-62 Austria [-41]
18-62 Germany [-44]
20-68 Italy [-48]
15-64 Netherlands [-49]

Iraq: no data
Saudi Arabia: no data

http://www.wingia.com/en/services/end_of_year_survey_2014/regional_country_results/8/46/
Well that is a very very deceptive survey because it fails to capture, in the case of India, one thing.
People love their country ( except radical leftists) here. No doubt. And If tomorrow an announcement is made that we need a militia to fight off an invasion , I am sure many would line up.
But the non-war role of the Army is coming under attack. Delays in procurement , rumors of corruption etc etc. Note that this does not mean people love their army less. I love my army especially since they have kept away from politics and have been involved many times in disaster management and relief. (now we have a dedicated agency)
But yeah the army has lost a bit of its sheen and, in the eyes of some(at least me),is being seen as another constitutional agency. Important but imperfect.
Just take a look at this thread to understand what I mean
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...uristic-vehicle-for-its-armoured-corps.68514/
 

jouni

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2014
Messages
3,900
Likes
1,138
Well that is a very very deceptive survey because it fails to capture, in the case of India, one thing.
People love their country ( except radical leftists) here. No doubt. And If tomorrow an announcement is made that we need a militia to fight off an invasion , I am sure many would line up.
But the non-war role of the Army is coming under attack. Delays in procurement , rumors of corruption etc etc. Note that this does not mean people love their army less. I love my army especially since they have kept away from politics and have been involved many times in disaster management and relief. (now we have a dedicated agency)
But yeah the army has lost a bit of its sheen and, in the eyes of some(at least me),is being seen as another constitutional agency. Important but imperfect.
Just take a look at this thread to understand what I mean
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...uristic-vehicle-for-its-armoured-corps.68514/
1.1 million men army without wars. I understand the frustration. Good thing about our conscript system is that at peacetime army is around 30000 and can be mobilized to 300000 in few weeks. No frustration.

One interesting fact is that in WWII India was officially at war against Finland, but to my knowledge not one casualty resulted in that conflict. Now it would be a good change to see what would happen today. I noticed that you have about 600 fighter, we have only sixty, but have managed to score 18:1 kill ratio against NATO fighters. It would be interesting to have exercises and see which Air Force would emerge victorious.
 
Last edited:

Rowdy

Co ja kurwa czytam!
Senior Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
3,254
Likes
3,061
1.1 million men army without wars. I understand the frustration. Good thing about our conscript system is that at peacetime army is around 30000 and can be mobilized to 300000 in few weeks. No frustration.
You can't compare actually. Simply because we are a different kind of country. Most european countries are small and homogenous which leads to a high level of trust in the government. India is large very very large and diverse (as we did not form through genocide/land grabbing )so 10x mobilization is not possible, without sacrificing on quality.
but have managed to score 18:1 kill ratio against NATO fighters. It would be interesting to have exercises and see which Air Force would emerge victorious.
I believe you'd be far far away from that ratio.....but in which direction is hard to say .... :lol: either we will be pretty good or pretty bad.
 

jouni

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2014
Messages
3,900
Likes
1,138
You can't compare actually. Simply because we are a different kind of country. Most european countries are small and homogenous which leads to a high level of trust in the government. India is large very very large and diverse (as we did not form through genocide/land grabbing )so 10x mobilization is not possible, without sacrificing on quality.

I believe you'd be far far away from that ratio.....but in which direction is hard to say .... :lol: either we will be pretty good or pretty bad.
I agree on all, but sacrificing the quality...one advantage conscription has is that all talents of the age group is used. Professional military only attracts small portion of the age group. I am sure both systems are fine, conscription would not fit to India.
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

Detests Jholawalas
Ambassador
Joined
Apr 28, 2012
Messages
7,114
Likes
7,761
I agree on all, but sacrificing the quality...one advantage conscription has is that all talents of the age group is used. Professional military only attracts small portion of the age group. I am sure both systems are fine, conscription would not fit to India.
India can afford to keep a big army and pay its soldiers. I doubt if Finland can fund half of its population as army!!

Btw, half of these conscripts these days end up playing organs in the army without doing any real stuff!
 

Mad Indian

Proud Bigot
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2012
Messages
12,835
Likes
7,762
Country flag
I agree on all, but sacrificing the quality...one advantage conscription has is that all talents of the age group is used. Professional military only attracts small portion of the age group. I am sure both systems are fine, conscription would not fit to India.
Why would one need a conscription when the voluntary army itself is sufficient as of now?

BTW, Indian Govt does have the power of Drafting in an emergency.
 

Spindrift

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2011
Messages
2,644
Likes
8,588
Why would one need a conscription when the voluntary army itself is sufficient as of now?

BTW, Indian Govt does have the power of Drafting in an emergency.

that would be under Article 51A (d) of the The Constitution Of India.
 

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top