Why India is dysfunctional in spite of millions of educated and brilliant citizens

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by amitkriit, Dec 9, 2011.

  1. amitkriit

    amitkriit Senior Member Senior Member

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    1. How did just 70000 English troops and 40000 English administrators control and rule India for 100 years?
    2. Why do we need 450,000 soldiers in Kashmir?
    3. How come South Korea, which gained independence in 15th of August 1948 exports Cars and TVs to India?
    4. Brazil has been making passenger planes since 1960s, what has HAL delivered after 60 years of research?
    5. How many Olympic medals has India won? 20 medals in 18 Olympics (China 385 medals in 8 Olympics)
    6. When did an Indian Scientist (Citizen of India) win a Noble prize for science? What Indian universities rank among top 100 in the world?
    7. More than 40 Million Indians live in Seven Sister States, can you name those states? If you don't know where it is, how will you defend it against China?
    8. How many of your friends are Muslims? Remember 1 in 6 Indians are Muslim.

    If you don't take care of your own people, then someone else will. That is how the British got to rule over India in the first place, ruling 400 million people with the help of 400 million people.
     
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  3. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    The video raises some sensible questions, but it is unnecessarily pessimistic and makes some silly points too. And it would have been much better if he had used his own voice instead of the wannabe Western accented English that the automated software comes up with.

    South Korea exports cars and TVs to India because they followed a sensible economic model. Our Nehru-Gandhi leaders screwed up the nation with their quasi-socialist policies. The real worry is the hordes of commie-leaning individuals who exist even today, who want a throwback to the old days, and equate liberalization and privatization with "recolonization". Luckily the number of such people is getting smaller, but still, the existence of such people is a worry.

    HAL cannot deliver anything worthwhile because it is a babu-infested dinosaur-like PSU. By nature, such entities should not be expected to deliver anything substantial. Again, the bunch of regressive laggards I mentioned above, constantly resist attempts to introduce reforms and competition in sectors like HAL.

    Nobel prize? Can the maker of the video care to inform us how many nobel prizes in science his beloved South Korea came up with? We will get our nobel prizes, but let us learn to walk before we can run.

    Indian universities such as IITs cannot rank in the top 100 as long as the pampered and subsidized students are allowed to run away to the USA and build America instead of India. Maybe we need a new passport category for those who take advantage of such subsidized education, preventing them from being granted Visas for more than a few months (only B1 Visas), and that makes them ineligible for H1B Visas.

    I can name the seven sister states and their capitals too. I agree though, that this is a problem that still requires rectification. These states need to be brought more into the national consciousness.

    Anyway, the video is unnecessarily over-pessimistic. Lot of things have changed in the last 10-15 years. I can see things getting better all around me, unlike the video maker, who sees "only darkness".
     
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  4. KS

    KS Bye bye DFI Veteran Member

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    Questions probably raised by the likes of Arundati Roy & co specially the likes of 1.2.8 etc.
     
  5. mayfair

    mayfair Elite Member Elite Member

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    The same way Madam is the de-facto ruler of India, the same way the CCP with 350 Central committee members and 80million primary members lords over a population of 1.4 billion. The same way rulers ruled all over world. Before the Brits it was the Mughals and before them the Guptas and the Mauryas and so on..

    Who told you we have that many soldiers in the state of JAMMU AND KASHMIR?

    Because they make quality products, which are in demand in India and many other places around the world. Hardly sell anything in Japan though

    Visit HAL's website to find out.

    USA, Russia, UK and Germany have won far more. The point is?

    CV Raman. Raman Research Institute is named after him.

    I can name the states, their capitals, the major ethnic groups, the languages, the chief ministers and also aware of the fact that a lot of illegal immigrants living in some of those states as well. But how does that help in defending from China? By that reckoning if one cannot tell if Ganganagar is in Punjab or Rajasthan, one cannot defend it from Pakistan!! Mind numbing logic

    Why only Muslims? Why not Sikh, Christian, Buddhists, Jains, Animists etc? Do they not count in your warped world view? or do you prefer to sort your friends by caste, community and religion, like some books in a library or DVDs in a video store.

    Now that makes no sense whatsover..

    ---

    India is dysfunctional..got it..go do something about it instead of screaming from the rooftops.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2011
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  6. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Good point. Moreover, the Paki narrative which this has been picked from includes soldiers stationed at the border (one of the most dangerous borders in the world).

    The real point the video was asking was, why can India not make such quality products? The answer, as I said in my earlier post above, is the flawed economic model bestowed upon the nation by the Nehru-Gandhis. We are coming out of that mold slowly.

    All of us know the way dinosaur PSUs infested with bloodsucking babus function, don't we? The real fight should be against regressive and retrograde economic policies and those who oppose economic progress and development.

    The video does say that CV Raman was in British India, and not post-independence.
     
  7. utubekhiladi

    utubekhiladi The Preacher Elite Member

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    because of our corrupt political system.

    we do not have unity among ourself..

    eg; dam issue in south india.
     
  8. utubekhiladi

    utubekhiladi The Preacher Elite Member

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    india never gave birth to people like sardar patel in last 60 years.. thats why..
     
  9. The Messiah

    The Messiah Bow Before Me! Elite Member

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    Because Indians lack confidence to think something new and work ethic and always putting one's self before the collective nation.
     
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  10. amitkriit

    amitkriit Senior Member Senior Member

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    People in west are more self-centered than Indians, but they don't poke their noses in other peoples' business like we do in India. Indians always like to get judged by others, we waste our whole lives in trying to please important individuals. Ours' is a feudal system and it starts with the family. Indians are afraid of failure, because we don't expect a second chance, not even from our parents.
     
  11. nrj

    nrj Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Because some people keep referring their fellow Indians as some third person, only to justify their why-we-suck bullshyt.
     
  12. agentperry

    agentperry Senior Member Senior Member

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    few miscarriage that shouldnt have taken place at all is the cause of all the trouble.
    first of all tell me that having huge population guarantee gold in olympic and export of cars? the problem lies in...... if we had known then out of 1.2 billion atleast one would have pointed it out and corrected it. we still dont know where we lack.

    people blame on many causes like religion- hen why the hell people of same faith in usa and europe are flourishing?
    same goes with race option.
    lack of will? that too among 1.2 billion- about 15% of mankind dont have will to live in better way?
    education? even educated MTech, MBA guy spits on road and evade taxes.
    ethics? we still dont argue with our parents. right guys.
    brain? indians have faulty brain? then this disease gets cured when they see higher pay packages and visa for usa.
    corrupt govt? as if politicians are from pakistan or china and not indian. many of the congress leaders were born in british India, i think they know what freedom is and why India should be kept powerful to avoid what it was in their childhood. or it was better back then so they are making good efforts to take it back to crown era
    attitude? we can ADJUST. hmm may be. cockroach can also adjust and thus can survive a nuke explosion. but for that you need to be a cockroach and ADJUST
     
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  13. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    ^^ In my eyes, I am very clear about the problem. The Nehru-Gandhi inspired retarded quasi-socialist policies were always a problem, and are still a problem. The vestiges of the licence Raj in India still live on, and I would go so far as to say that that is the biggest problem in India. That, and those people in India who still have those commie socialist sentiments.

    Of course there are many different problems, but get rid of the problem mentioned above, and we will get our problems solved in the next couple of decades.
     
  14. Dovah

    Dovah Untermensch Senior Member

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    The brilliant ones don't give a shit...Fact.
     
  15. agentperry

    agentperry Senior Member Senior Member

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    can you briefly explain how EXACTLY that lead to what India is right now. and what if nehru was capitalist?
     
  16. Galaxy

    Galaxy Elite Member Elite Member

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    The biggest myth and misconception is There are 4.5 lakh to 7.0 lakh army soldiers in J&K. It's totally wrong.

    Our Total army soldiers = 1 Million and 0.3 million are on supportive role.

    3 Strike Corps HQ in Bhopal, Mathura and Ambala with around 1.5 lakh hardly go in J&K. Their role is different.

    3 Corps in N-E are there in N-E mostly and most of the time involved in Insurgency in N-E/Maoist effected areas.. Only Few Gorkha rifles, Bihar regiment that also on temporary basis. Also, I doubt regiments of Jodhpur corps goes either as they have to HOLD large area till Gujarat

    Mostly, 3 Corps of Udhampur, Nagrota and Srinager are there in J&K to manage 3 borders with P.O.K, Gilgit and Leh region. In addition, Few regiments from Corps of Bhatinda, Yol and Jalandher only frequently go to J&K.

    It's max. 2,00,000 + RR (50,000) + Local police/central force which is in every state. Even recently, News came that HM planning to shift RR to Maoist effected area too.
     
  17. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    I strongly believe that money can solve all problems. If you don't grow and continue to earn money, you will wallow in poverty with terrible systems and governance structures, with no hope for the future. You will constantly depend on foreign aid and largesse and be considered a beggar nation.

    We have seen a lot of improvements in the last decade, after we set our economy right. Remember the 1990s? Bankrupt nation, Punjab burning, Kashmir burning, N-E burning, no jobs, mandal commission, riots, communal riots... that was the state our country was in. The biggest ambition of a youth in those days was to leave India and run away. If I had not been of the correct age to reap the benefits of the liberalized economy, even I would have run away.

    The Nehru Gandhi quasi-socialist raj made us ashamed of consumerism and consumption. Consumption is a good thing. It helps the country lift itself up by the bootstraps. If I have a job, I can go to a bank and apply for a car loan, and buy one of the dozens of models on store. Thousands of people like me buy cars, creating jobs for several people in logistics, servicing, etc. Then, one day the car manufacturer decides to open a factory here due to good demand and market here (take Hyundai, Chennai). That creates thousands of more jobs. As the pressure on the old single-lane national highways grows, the government is forced to expand it to 4-lane, which they can afford to do now, due to increased tax collections. The highway construction employs thousands of poor people more.

    All these hundreds of thousands of people who have got employment can send their next generation to school, since they have something in their stomach, and basic survival is not a problem anymore. They will go to doctors instead of the witch doctor in their village. They will have less kids since they are more assured that many of their kids will not die of disease or disaster, and since they don't need the extra hands for labour anymore.

    This is just one small aspect I have mentioned here. There are a thousand more virtuous force multipliers at work, which develop the nation and push it towards the path of progress. Imagine, if Nehru had chosen this path in the 1950s! Do we not see the difference between South Korea (mentioned in the video) and North Korea? Between Mao's China and Taiwan?

    We lost five decades of progress. We lost several generations. We lost the chance to exit the 20th century as a developed nation.

    Make no mistake, the enemies of India, even today, are those who pine and yearn for a throwback to the old days.
     
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  18. agentperry

    agentperry Senior Member Senior Member

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    well very well said sir. but did we Indians had any money to spend on 15th aug 1947? no. we had anyone among us to produce on large scale? no. were they, with their limited resources, willing to do anything beneficial for poor indians, not having a meal a day in the remote cornors of India? no.
    you buy car, i buy car many people in haryana, tn and maharashtra gets job. but we do work to get money, something so worthy that we get paid for buying car(s), at that time, people knew nothing.
    at max a person can be MA. will you pay any MA what your company pays to you.

    EVEN TODAY IF WORLD HAS STABLE VIEW ABOUT INDIA, it is because of PRESENCE OF PUBLIC SECTOR, crafted since freedom and PRIVATE SECTOR that was protected and taught manners back then and allowed to gain weight after 1991( though forcefully by nature).
    Nehru policy was not bad and was most idol at that time, AT THAT TIME. new policy was required in 70s but political environment after war led to bad decisions and thus in 1991, much awaited thing happened. liberalization.

    i dont think that nehru policies are root cause of this menace
     
  19. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    I guess we can continue this on some other thread later... but one thing I must say - I am not blaming Nehru alone. Nehru shoulders only one small part of the blame. His daughter and grandson(s) are much more worthy of blame than him.

    You can read about the way the Tatas and other private entrepreneurs were muzzled, right from the 50s and 60s. Had the state been more liberal, we might have been a different nation by the 1980s itself. :tsk:
     
  20. The Messiah

    The Messiah Bow Before Me! Elite Member

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    Comparing small nations like south korea and taiwan with India is idiotic.

    We needed time to gather ourselves after independence and policy adopted at that time of protectionism was the correct one. But i think we should have liberalized in the 70's or 80's rather in 90's.
     
  21. Galaxy

    Galaxy Elite Member Elite Member

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    1. How did just 70000 English troops and 40000 English administrators control and rule India for 100 years?
    Ans -- Same like with 50,000 SS officers - Hitler ruled half of Europe. With not even 1,00,000 Cholas loyalist, They ruled 8 countries. 5,00,000 English troops and they ruled 86 countries including India, U.S., Australia, Canada, South Africa, Middle-east.


    2. Why do we need 450,000 soldiers in Kashmir?
    Ans- We don't have 4.5 lakh. Even if we have it's because 2 countries has an eye on our Kashmir.

    3. How come South Korea, which gained independence in 15th of August 1948 exports Cars and TVs to India?
    Ans - Because South Korea was free for most of the time except 2 centuries. We faced invasion for 1600 years starting from 5th century. We had 540 different princely states and 37 ethnic groups, 31 languages, 7 Religions, 6 Border countries. I can go more, but I suppose that is enough. We do export IT solution to 100+ out of fortune 500 companies. Have you wondered why China don't have product like LG or Samsung even when her economy is 2nd largest and country is free for more than 600 years ?


    4. Brazil has been making passenger planes since 1960s, what has HAL delivered after 60 years of research?
    Ans - Blame to Government policy since 50's. Our economy was also weak. We invested 0.5 Bn $ on R&D in 90's when China was investing 5 Bn $. We started improving our indigenous manufacturing in 90's only and in next 2 decades, It would be 4th largest and in Top 10. Also, we never faced any restriction like China did. "Necessity is mother of Invention"


    5. How many Olympic medals has India won? 20 medals in 18 Olympics (China 385 medals in 8 Olympics)
    Ans - Because we never gave so much attention to Sports. we were busy in Cricket and hockey. We performed very well for long time. It's nothing to do with Indians but blame to GoI. If they will put 10 Bn $, provide proper facility, training, Infrastructure then there is no reason why we can't be in Top 10 in each Olympic game. In 70's our economy was merely 1.5% of world GDP's. Today 3%.


    6. When did an Indian Scientist (Citizen of India) win a Noble prize for science? What Indian universities rank among top 100 in the world?

    Ans - There are 175 countries from where no one won Noble prize for science. We have quality University. India's is ranked as 5th best in U.S. for top post after Canada, Japan, U.K., Germany. So, There must be quality education otherwise how come our scientist, IT professionals, Teachers do well everywhere in the world. My own relatives in working as Top post in U.S. and under him there are 200 Americans. Even we had lots of good scientist. Nuke, Missiles, Mission moon, ISRO are few things which makes India in Top 7 nations.


    7. More than 40 Million Indians live in Seven Sister States, can you name those states? If you don't know where it is, how will you defend it against China?
    Ans - Not only name, I can tell you Capital, Languages, Ethnical distrubtion, Our Defence and Internal security capability. Since, I know very well 2nd part is not important. But even assume, Few people don't know what does it matter ?? After all It's responsibility of Indian Armed forces. We have adequate no. of Missiles/Army Soldiers/Air force squadron to defend. Even Arunchal and Sikkim Scouts are ready for that. 13 Battalion of Bihar Regiment from Danapur is ready to go if needed. We don't have to defend China, There are 2 Millions Indian armed forces for that which we pay every year as Tax to government.


    8. How many of your friends are Muslims? Remember 1 in 6 Indians are Muslim.
    Ans - I have few Muslims friends. Even My ex-Girl Friend was also Muslim. I think, My 1 out of 6 friends would be Muslims but may be because i always lived among 20%-30% Muslims population areas. BTW, My 20% Friends are Sikhs and Jains but there are only 2.75%. What friendship has to do with population and religion ratio ??


    If you don't take care of your own people, then someone else will. That is how the British got to rule over India in the first place, ruling 400 million people with the help of 400 million people.

    Ans - We are not perfect and our politician, bureaucrats and every Indian is from us only. It's not others fault. British ruled because we were divided between 545 princely state with no national defence and integrity. Today, Pakistan is weaker than Pak + BD combined in 1970. Got my point ??

    No country can rule us again. Yes, Gandhi dynasty is ruling for last 60 years but that is different topic. Be sure on that. Our National integration is still fine and we need to improve ourself but we are nowhere in danger nor it will happen any time in 21st century !!
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2011
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