Why india has to ally with US

Discussion in 'Foreign Relations' started by JayATL, Nov 3, 2011.

  1. JayATL

    JayATL Senior Member Senior Member

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    @Mods: The person who moved my thread ( this one) into the India will grow in strategic importance: US thread- IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT....well- not in ways you assumed. This about economic zones/ China centric / ASEAN countries concern and others in the region. Yeah it sounds like that topic but it actually speaks( if you read it) to something completely different. That thread is US's wish , this thread is why India faces a risk beyond, well beyond, any border issues... Thank you.
    ---------------------------------------



    Continuing on- Before anyone goes nationalistic on me and gives the India is king rah rah replies - read the entire thread and quoted material. Stop think before you reply

    Smart opinion says India has to ally itself with the US or lose its influence in its back yard. This based on several articles, even the recent one here posted about Australia needing to get close to India- have all unanimously agreed that china has plans to be the only dominate power in Asia. It is single mindedly after the goal to remove all US influence and military might in this region( Asia). Its building its military at break neck speed and the lethality of which is only going to get astounding.

    Auz's PM Rudd for example stated that - their closeness to US is going to increase as well as military spending because of what they see as dangerous Chinese ambitions for this region. You are seeing portions of that ambition and tone in South China Sea today.

    This is not just about Indo_china border but much larger play at risk
    . Economic zones, rights to protect indian assets ( like w/ vietnam)...the chinese ambition is to bully in those areas. Hell! you even had their ships ask an Indian ship what it was doing in " international free waters" on its way back from vietnam.

    This means India has two options-

    One is meet china head on, risk spending it itself into a USSR kind of situation -especially in military strength

    OR

    Two- ally with US and both use their influence to curtail china. Else India risks loosing on both fronts - influences to take on china diplomatically in Asia ( and world) and also in terms of military strength. I know that India cannot match China's military ambitions- so its option two clearly for me



    some will say - why not try for peace with China? You see no amount of peace will stop their aspirations and single goal. That being their domination in Asia -and a military bully in the region. If India wants to relent that role to them - then fine , be in their shadow and get bullied and expect to be a dud on the international stage.

    But - voila! the Indian foreign service heads don't. Every indicator from india's foreign policy office so far- is that they understand that relenting Asia to China is their death knoll. The direction India is headed is where every, I mean every, other nation in Asia that matters is going i.e. getting closer to the US to mitigate what would be the most dangerous power in this part of the world - China.[/QUOTE]
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2011
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  3. Zebra

    Zebra Senior Member Senior Member

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    ( some will say - why not try for peace with China? You see no amount of peace will stop their aspirations and single goal.------ QUOTE )

    Nehru did that , results are in front of us .
     
  4. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    A little piece of Aksai Chin, a little piece of Arunachal.......
     
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  5. Zebra

    Zebra Senior Member Senior Member

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    I think Russia or US , they are both the same. ek bahut hai to dusra palit .



    na kahu se dosti na kahu se baer .

    But for sure , must maintain balance with , each of them - Russia and the US .
     
  6. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    And be accommodating to China!
     
  7. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

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    Wont be interested in commenting on Indo-US relations, its as good as flogging a dead horse off late on the forum.

    There is two prolonged strategy to wrestle it out with the chinese, that come to my mind. Play a bad cop and a good cop.

    Align your interests with those who are against them, not to be confused with formal alliance. Be a part of an arc of nations that surrounds them. This is a battle to be fought through diplomacy, where we are doing fine. While doing that, make sure militarily we place ourselves in a position where any untoward move by the chinese doesn’t go unanswered and the damage inflicted is many times more than the much quoted “bloody nose”, here though we don’t measure up.

    Second is to have a working relationship with them, there is no need to work in isolation. Trade is looking up, their market is one of the fastest growing, and internationally there are things on which the interests of the two nations converge on certain issues, so to be on talking terms is of interest.

    My main concern is, do we have an answer to china like china has in Pakistan for us or the covert support they provide to insurgences?

    I would imagine, for now, no. At least the dent they are making in hurting us is a million times more than we are trying to inflict anything in retaliation. We are still playing a clean game.

    We need to do some plain talk with the chinese on pakistan. Chinese need to be told in no uncertain terms if Pakistan and India were to come to blows, china wont have it as an audience in the front seat, it will be extremely messy for them, and it shouldnt be too tough an ask to pass on the message since pakistan is indeed seen as an extension of china's foreign policy and when the chinese claim pakistan to their their israel, they are doing no favours for themselves, but for this to do, we should be militarily capable enough to put across the stern message which will be well heard in Beijing.
     
  8. Tianshan

    Tianshan Regular Member

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    wait, so if india and pakistan get into a war, over something like terrorism... you think that india should also declare war on china as well?
     
  9. Zebra

    Zebra Senior Member Senior Member

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    I think still Indians are not yet prepared for that , become an ally with US .

    But I will love that if we become an ally with the US . All the dramas we faced in past from US side that was because of , not buying their arms and not becoming their ally only .

    But as per Vladimir Putin - China is a reliable partner, not a threat to Russia.
    That will be an alarm for India .
     
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  10. sesha_maruthi27

    sesha_maruthi27 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Some strategists feel thet in case pakistan attacks INDIA, CHINA which has a good will towards pakistan may attack INDIA.
     
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  11. sesha_maruthi27

    sesha_maruthi27 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Both countries are being ruled by communists, this factor is enough to have a common propaganda. India on the other hand must be cautious aabout its relationship with America as well as Russia.
     
  12. Adux

    Adux Senior Member Senior Member

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    There is a possibility, if there is a Nuclear War between India-Pakistan, make no doubt we will throw as much as we can at both Pakistan and China. If we are going down, we are taking all our enemies with us.
     
  13. Tianshan

    Tianshan Regular Member

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    the problem with such a policy is that it narrows options.

    if india makes it known that a india-pakistan nuke war will lead to nuclear strikes on china...

    then in the event of a india-pakistan war, china would be forced to pre-emptively defend itself, by striking india with nuclear weapons first.

    and considering the size of the chinese arsenal, with the average nuke being several megatons (more than india's whole arsenal)... it would turn a small india-pakistan skirmish, into the worst genocide in human history.
     
  14. Dovah

    Dovah Untermensch Senior Member

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    Source please?
     
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  15. Adux

    Adux Senior Member Senior Member

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    Yup that is our plan. You made the Pakistan monster, so we are going to take you down with it. Indians are not some idiots, they are known for their brains in the world. India has a much larger aresnal in development than the Chinese and Pakistan put together. have you seen the fissile material available to the Indians. Indians will make complete genocide of 1.5 billion of Chinese and 200 million Pakistani's, even if they are going down.

    And your info about Chinese nuke aresenal is laughable. Take it some other forums.
     
  16. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    Mel Brooks is a comic genius. That number cracked me up.
     
  17. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    What a nightmare. Could you cite those strategists ?

    Would not existing treaties (SEATO?) bring in the US on India's side in that event?
     
  18. Iamanidiot

    Iamanidiot Elite Member Elite Member

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    General Krishna Swami Sundarji is one.But Indian Army was always geared towards a two front war
     
  19. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    Good point, and we don't see use of the term tactical nukes, only "nukes", which implies the MAD scenario.
     
  20. niharjhatn

    niharjhatn Regular Member

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    And the chinese will use their Star Wars-esque space lasers to shoot our missiles out of the sky :lol:

    Limiting options? Yeah right... we should abandon our nuclear weapons completely, that way China will not feel threatened by us and hence we need not feel threatened by them right? I mean, who are the aggressors here... is it China or India?

    Perhaps it warrants closer analysis:
    -Claiming territory of other nations...
    -Forming alliances with nations mutual enemies
    -Continuing military buildup (as a sign of peace right?)
    -Continually stirring cold war rhetoric
    -Funding terror groups (both external and internal)

    Yeah mate I see our folly I'll go and convince our leaders we do not need a deterrence policy because it puts us at GREATER risk...:thumb:
     
  21. JayATL

    JayATL Senior Member Senior Member

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    Tianshan, please dont pay attention to certain characters here that show no critical thinking. NO- INDIA WILL NOT ATTACK CHINA if it goes to war with pakistan. It is beyond absurd, infact naive and ignorant to even think so.

    And here is another dose of reality - China will not go to war if India goes to one with Pakistan. They will stand back and show the world markets how stable they are- because progress, economic might, money money money is near and dear to them. they , china, have nothing to gain and only to loose if they do otherwise ( in economic terms)

    additionally- I would prefer if these characters stay on topic, frankly understand it to stay on topic. This has nothing to do with India- china borders and secruity around it. It has to do with India protecting assets( economic zones , investements and strategic assets) in other parts of this world beyond its borders. India cannot spend itself into a USSR situation to protect its assets beyond its boundaries to negate China by itself.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2011
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