Why doesn't India develop a Marine Corps?

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by ace009, Nov 17, 2010.

  1. ace009

    ace009 Freakin' Fighter fan Elite Member

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    India's interests lie in several offshore destinations. We have many strategic assets like our energy sources, our diplomatic stations abroad, our naval missions as well as our allies overseas (Singapore, Thailand) etc. We have currently no real way of protecting them, or responding to a threat in real time.

    India should have a naval strike force with special infantry training. Probably a corps level force with 2-3 divisions, having it's own light artillery, light armor, helicopter gunships and transport vehicles (naval, air and land).

    These are my opinion, I would like to hear what others think.
     
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  3. The Messiah

    The Messiah Bow Before Me! Elite Member

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    Our leaders dont have foresight to think all these things. For them only filling there own pockets is important.
     
  4. ace009

    ace009 Freakin' Fighter fan Elite Member

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    I know fully well that most Indian leaders are gutless selfish and greedy. But what about the few genuine ones? What about the military think-tank? The defense-experts?
    All India has in terms of rapid response force are a few Army battalions, the MARCOS and the para commanods. The army battalions are not equipped enough to operate long-distance. The MARCOS are too few and the para commandos are not really first strike infantry with proper hardware, they are more what their name suggests, light infantry with behind the enemy lines operability.
    The Marine infantry (like the Royal marines, the US marines or even the French Marines) are a shock and awe force, with their own artillery and armor (usually light versions) and a dedicated air arm. They are the first response force to any foreign soil threat situation. They form a "beach-head" where the army can land later on and start operating from. The marines do not have the heavy equipment of the army, or the logistics for sustained campaign. But they have the rapid response ability, high mobility and special training for strike operations.
    If India truly wants to have a global strategic importance and a true naval presence, should absolutely have a marine corps.
     
  5. SATISH

    SATISH DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    Well raising marine corps is a very high stake issue. So India is following the Russian model. Few Batallions from each regiment is integrated to the Amphibious warfare wing in the Indian navy. This is more cost effective when compared to raising a seperate Marine corps.
     
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  6. Dark Sorrow

    Dark Sorrow Respected Member Senior Member

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    Having a marine force is neither feasible nor a good idea. Army with proper training and equiptment will do the job.
    First we need to improve equiptment for the army and then providing training for marine like ops in enough. We just should not blindly keep copying other countries. We also need to have more number amphibious assult ships, we need carriers with good land attack capablities and finally improve land attack capablity. We just can't use Bhramos for ever land target. Thankfully IAF has got a good transport fleet.
    Countries like Thailand and Singapore are our friends not military allies (there is difference in the meaning of both the terms) that we would rush for their help and both countries are capable enough to fight of the local threats except for China. Also don't forget only USMC is the force that can fight long wars efficiently among marine corps as US has the best logistic service/system and intelligance in the world, we don't enjoy such facilities. Just look at their transport fleet!!!
    We need to imporve our navy first then think of such things.
     
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  7. pankaj nema

    pankaj nema Senior Member Senior Member

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    What will our marines do in the first place .Where do we want to deploy the marines.
    IA has a few amphious brigades . If need arises they will be tasked with attacking Pakistani targets.

    But before soldiers land on the shore of an enemy country we need to have total air superiority AND ensure that enemy's navy is not around or else the soldiers will be slaughtered .

    Is nt all this a tall order .We need more strike packages like Brahmos , Harpoons and Mig 29 k to demolish Pak navy ASAP
     
  8. sesha_maruthi27

    sesha_maruthi27 Senior Member Senior Member

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    The main thing in raising a marine force is the proper induction and usage of huge amount of money. If at all the GoI decides to do so, the money when it comes to the hands of the defence personal will not be the same as it was sanctioned, as the babus will demand their share and give the leftover money. The money thus obtained by the defence services is then, if at all the defence services do not eat anything in the middle, then is given to buy new equipments and then they place tenders. During the selection of tenders there will be some money laundering done and they will blacklist some defence equipment manufacturing companies and the left over companies will give a high value tender to fill their pockets and if at all any one of the companies is selected and given the order, the country from which the company is will say that we should sign some agreement before we get our hands on the latest and hi-tech equipment like what the US did by saying us to sign the CISMOA. If none of the companies are selected the project goes to the DRDO. Then those people will say we have to develop indeginious technology and we need more money and more time to achieve the required hi-tech technology which is required and the same old process of sanctioning money through the annual defence budget will take place and by the time the parliment gets the defence budget through we will see our grand children go to their offices and then after the defence budget is passed then again the eating and filling up of the pockets by babus will start and finally when the DRDO gets its hands on the money we will be a history and our grand children will have their grand children to see the new technology achieved by the DRDO. Then at that time IA will say the same thing that the technology is out dated and IA needs the latest tech weapons. And the whole process of eating money will start again.

    Finally it is the hard earned tax payers money which is wasted and is used to fill the babus's packets and pockets.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2010
  9. ace009

    ace009 Freakin' Fighter fan Elite Member

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    Thank you guys for your comments. Here is what I think I hear as of yet -
    1. We have no need for a Marine Corps because we do not have military allies abroad to support.
    2. Our army can do the job fine with "special battalions" trained in amphibious warfare. Like the Russians do.
    3. Our bureaucracy is too corrupt and incompetent to do anything.

    Well, here is my counter-opinion for what it is worth.

    1. Even if we do not have military allies, we still have assets and interests overseas. Also, if any of our "friends" ask for help, what will we do? Remember IPKF in Sri Lanka? Remember the botched campaigns, the needless loss of IA soldiers? Our feeble attempts and lack of help against the LTTE turned the Sri Lankans away into the arms of the Chinese. Did we learn nothing? If India wants to be a superpower and stand against a rising China, we will need allies, and we will need partners. Israel, Sri Lanka, Singapore, Thailand, Malayasia (even Japan and South Korea) are natural allies for us. We should be ready to help them for our own benefit.

    2. Any army including the IA is a huge beast, in terms of bureaucracy, internal politics, logistics etc. Even specialised battalions have to go through the same shit before deployment. A marine corps is exactly opposite. It has less firepower and logistics capability, but it also has less bureaucracy and internal politics. So, it can be deployed faster and can act as a "rapid response" force, without the added bullshit of "rapid response" forces of the army. It is not for nothing that the best military forces in the world keep a marine force. The russians do not keep a dedicated marine force because their naval doctrine is still based upon the soviet model (coastal defense and undersea offense) and they have no money to develop a new marine force. They should NOT be our model.

    3. Corruption and incompetence cannot be our excuse in planning for our future. Indian politicians will sell their mother for votes and money, much less their motherland. But our saner and less corrupt leaders (both in civilian and military leadership) should be preparing for our future. A future of India as a major power in the Asia-pacific area for the 21st century. Unfortunately we are still preparing for our last wars. Pakistan is not our long-term naval opponent. Our army and airforce can deal with them, with nominal help from the navy. Our real naval opponent is and will be China and we better be prepared for them.
     
  10. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

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    Equipment. That's the answer. With our main force itself in a sad state that is relying on "2012 onwards" tag for modernization, raising a modern, cutting-edge Marine Corps is simply a waste attempt right now. We are not that big right now to have a 4th arm in military. Also, ordering these specialized equipment would mean another 2 dozen crores go into the pockets of #$%^&* politicians and their cronies.

    We technically have what we need for our environment. LOL! As if the current number of scams by this Government wasn't enough, another dozen scams would emerge with getting equipment for a separate 4th arm of Marine Corps. :emot15:
     
  11. kuku

    kuku Respected Member

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    The sort of missions that the Navy will actually have to perform in the future, the biggest one being enforcing secure passage for the shipping in the Indian Ocean and to make sure a-hole terrorists are not able to use the sea as a route into our country, we need to increase in the numbers of naval special forces(Marcos), lots of economical ships with enough endurance to carry them around and enough space to carry helicopters and UAVs (for the marine special forces and for surveillance duties), with a good anti shipping and self defence capability that keeps them relevant in a bigger conventional war.

    As for the marine infantry part, why not, however we have to be realistic, we can not support sea based expeditionary campaigns on our own (we do not have enough money for that, and will not have money for that even in the next 20 years), a limited marine infantry and expeditionary capability will come in handy, to cooperate in international missions, and to add another dimension to our capability in the region (any potential adversary will have to factor it in).
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2010
  12. the army has recently said in the media that the operational capability of indian army is about 52%.the army is the most outdated of the 3 services.the army urgently needs thousands of modern tanks,artillery,helicopter,cruise and ballistic missile,infantry weapons,sam's etc.at the current pace of modernization plagued by political unwillingness and bureautic hurdles we will acheive 100% operational capabilities by 2027(of 2010 standard).apart from that the army has embarked a massive capability expansion along the lac, including the formation of an mountain based strike corp in the NE.thus we must concentrate to build the potential of our 3 sevices rather than setting up a fourth service.
     
  13. Virendra

    Virendra Moderator Moderator

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    Pardon me going slightly off topic but has anyone seen the "Pacific", HBO Production?
    They've shown earliest US Marines of WW II in the movies.

    Regards,
    Virendra
     
  14. The Messiah

    The Messiah Bow Before Me! Elite Member

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    Not that one but ive seen band of brothers. I dont have much interest in pacific war...in ww2 im only interested in battles fought in europe & africa.
     
  15. ace009

    ace009 Freakin' Fighter fan Elite Member

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    I agree with the need to upgrade our existing military services. I will put forward another scenario -

    India has lots of old and huge Universities, but when trying to kick-start Indian R&D efforts, the government starts brand new Institutes like the IITs, IISERs etc. The understanding is, that it is easier, faster, cheaper and more effective to start a new institute that trying to reform and upgrade the existing ones. Similarly, I think developing a marine corps might a easier, faster, cheaper and more effective process for the military in India than trying to develop a separate expeditionary strike force capability of the army.

    That does not mean that I am asking for the army to be underfunded or not funded. I think the army is extremely important for the defense of the country. But it is just not ideal for a swift attacking force.
     
  16. ALBY

    ALBY Elite Member Elite Member

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    It would be a right decision to set up a marine corps rather than amphibious units coz such units need coordination of both army and navy....Involvement of two military units mean ther is high chances of indifferences b/w top brass and decision making would also take much which may cost fatal at critical times...as far as the new unit is considered first inductions could be made by volunteers from triservice forces fpr respective sections ...it needs to be contain only men equalling a division..as far as weaponry is considered only shock troops meant for behind enemy line ops need to have hightech weapons..ordinary troops need standard issue items kalashnikovs etc...even marine corps deploy only standard issue weaponry...some tanks and apcs could be provided from armoured regiments and we should buy support helicopters for the new force...
     
  17. ace009

    ace009 Freakin' Fighter fan Elite Member

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    My views about an Indian marine corps are more ambitious. India should have a full marine corps with three divisions - one based in the west coast (Goa maybe) with special strategic focus on Pakistan and secondary strategic specialization of the middle east. The second division should be based in the Nicobar Islands with special strategic focus on China and secondary focus on South-east Asia. The third division should be based near Tuticorin with specialized focus on Indian ocean region (Myanmar, Thailand, Malayasia, Sri-Lanka, Maldives, East-Africa etc).
    The marine corps should have stealth troop-carriers, helicopter gunships, light armor and light artillery of its own. The marine infantry should have two types of troops, 1. light infantry with specialized training to operate behind-the-line, 2. heavy infantry with anti-tank and anti-aircraft weapons for assault purposes. Each division should have a mixture of troops (maybe a regiment of light infantry, a couple of regiments of heavy infantry and one regiment of artillery/ armor/ air-support. The marines should have the state of the art weapons, communications and tactical assets.
    Imagine what strategic and tactical advantage it will give India if there is a force like this in existence - both Pakistan and China will be shaking with fear of an ocean-borne attack on their major ports/ coastal cities.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2010
  18. Redhawk

    Redhawk Regular Member

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    I thought India did maintain a corps of naval infantry or amphibious infantry. But apparently I was wrong. India should definitely raise and maintain a corps of naval or amphibious infantry, with supporting arms.
     
  19. anupamsurey

    anupamsurey Regular Member

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    we don't have marine crops like USMC, but we do have naval armed units and elite commando units. they are the The Marine Commando Force or what we popularly call MARCOS.
     
  20. ladder

    ladder Senior Member Senior Member

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    The Sagar Prahari Bal (SPB) which is now tasked for coastal defence will be expanded to a Div. size and re-oriented as Marines.

    Sagar Prahari Bal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
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  21. Redhawk

    Redhawk Regular Member

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    When the SPB is expanded to division strength and reorganised as naval/amphibious infantry, I expect the Indian Navy will increase the formation's inventory of infantry weapons. According to the Wiki article, the SPB maintains at present a very limited inventory of small arms, but then it is only a coastal defence force at present. There is not even a light machine-gun, general-purpose machine-gun, or medium machine-gun included in its small-arms inventory, let alone a heavy machine-gun in 12.7mm/.50-in. And of course, if this formation is to be reorganised and maintained as naval/amphibious infantry, it will need to be armed with rocket-propelled grenades, man-portable recoilless rifles, and mortars.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2015

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