Why did Russia approve RD 93 engine sale for Pakistan's JF 17?

[StealthSniper]

Let me quote it the right way. India does not have a problem when Russia deals with brazil, venezuela, Malaysia etc. But India certainly will have a problem when its so called "FRIEND" tries to arm its arch-enemy with a fighter engine.

When Russia expects India to be fine with its Paksitan exports, then why does Indian defence deal with Ukraine annoy Russia??? This deal happened 2 years after Russian back-stab.

India's defence pact with Ukraine annoys Russia: Rediff.com news

What about with India having defence deals with Isreal, and America. Don't you think Russia can be pissed off and say we aren't going to help you anymore India and we will sell to whoever we want. No they won't do that and again Pakistan is not really a threat to India even with 250 chinese made planes.

If Russia continues to sell stuff to Pakistan then yes I agree it's going to be a bigger problem but in the long term India and Russia will still work together. India will in the long term be making their own weapons anyway, or at least that is the plan.

 

[StealthSniper]

Again I find it Ironic that we are saying Russia is not loyal to India, when those 250 odd JF-17 planes will be shot down by Mig-29 and 280 MKI made by Russia for India.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

There was also an issue of refuelers being sold but they seem to be from the ukraine??

Pakistan Air Force to induct four midair refuellers next year

 

[Quickgun Murugan]

Russia To Allow Pakistan To Import RD-93 Aircraft Engines

India spoke against re-exporting RD-93 to Pakistan. However, the Russian president’s staff said that the deal with China does not harm Delhi’s interests, and explains: “India buys not just next-generation jets from Russia, but ‘four-plus’ generation jets”.

JF-17 fighter jets are the third generation, actually outdated machines. Meanwhile, if that deal had failed, Pakistan would have been able to acquire more modern Europe’s Eurofighter Typhoon jets or American F-16 aircrafts.

Russia To Allow Pakistan To Import RD-93 Aircraft Engines | India Defence

We did you a favour...

It is pretty obvious that india-defence.com will give you articles which downplays Chinese/Pakistani threat. The very fact that the following lines were quoted speaks volumes of what BS this article is

if that deal had failed, Pakistan would have been able to acquire more modern Europe’s Eurofighter Typhoon jets or American F-16 aircrafts

Pakistan and Eurofighter?? I doubt if even India can afford a Eurofighter though its there in MRCA, pakistan cannot even think about those jets.
And f-16's?? Its been 5 years since pakistan placed its F-16 blk 52 orders.Its still expecting its arrival.


If Russia had not agreed for RD-93 deal, JF 17 would have run on cheap chinese under-performing junk engines and the project would have never reached production stage as of what it is now.

Also, JF 17 is not 3rd generation. Irrespective of what you think, PAF is not so stupid to replace a 3rd gen aircraft with another 3rdd gen aircraft.

 

[Vladimir79]

It is pretty obvious that india-defence.com will give you articles which downplays Chinese/Pakistani threat. The very fact that the following lines were quoted speaks volumes of what BS this article is

Funny considering it was a reprint of Kommersant...

Russian Engines to Fly to Pakistan - Kommersant Moscow

Also, JF 17 is not 3rd generation. Irrespective of what you think, PAF is not so stupid to replace a 3rd gen aircraft with another 3rdd gen aircraft.

It isn't just what I think, it is what Vladimir Putin thinks on the advise of his staff. It just so happens they are correct.

 

[Quickgun Murugan]

What about with India having defence deals with Isreal, and America. Don't you think Russia can be pissed off and say we aren't going to help you anymore India and we will sell to whoever we want. No they won't do that and again Pakistan is not really a threat to India even with 250 chinese made planes.

India never had a deal with US during Soviet era. All India-Isreali-US transactions are very recent after formation of Russia, when Russia exercised cordial relations with these nations.

Forget about your thoughts on JF 17, pls follow this link, Could Pakistan base nukes in China as it develops its nuclear submarine? , its a blog of a retired IAF officer Vijainder K Thakur. Though he feels JF 17's capabilities are exaggerated, it is still a threat.

 

[Martian]

If India had stood its ground and told Russia that all military deals will be frozen then Russia would not have sold a single engine for the Pakistani JF 17. The last time I checked, there is no embargo on the trade of military technology from the West to India. There is no need to allow Russia to run roughshod over Indian interests or pocketbook.

 

[Quickgun Murugan]

India can afford any of the 4th or 4.5 generation aircraft that exists on this planet.

I was just trying to be sarcastic to prove that Eurofighter is a costly jet. I know that India is pursuing a 5th gen platform and compared to that euro fighter's price will look obsolete.

My request to members to stop making jf-17 look like some serious platform with cheap chinese instrument from radar to avionics. When they start buying French radars and avionics, this aircraft will be very expensive to buy as much as 250 let alone 150 will be impossible for pakistan to afford in future. Pakistan is still getting Aid from IMF for development not to buy jets.

The only request you should be making is to stop under-estimating Chinese products. Wheter it is junk or not it still has to be shot down in case of war? JF 17 would not even have come into existence if Russia had not approved RD 93!

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Much of these negative Russian articles are from US defense contractors who are trying hard to break into the Indian market. Nobody has helped India on a strategic level that Russia has and continues to do so today.

 

[IBRIS]

The only request you should be making is to stop under-estimating Chinese products.[/B]

China till this day had not commited or planned to purchase jf-17. If the producer of the product is not willing to buy the junk then why should i even think of giving it any attention. If you have so much love for the JF-17 then i can't change your opinion. Heck i won't even bother myself to talk about the fuselauge which has no capability to defend itself from present threats that are posed by existing old platforms in it's generation.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Chinese also know the plane had thrust issues from the start and never revealed it, but rejected it and placed it for export.

 

[AJSINGH]

Jf 17 are outated machines ,even IAF MIG 21 BISONS are better than JF 17,plus engines are not the only things on the aircraft.Russia is selling old stuff to pakistan let them.i dont mind them selling mig 17 or mig 23 for that matter ,because IAF has got better equipment

 

[Koji]

India never had a deal with US during Soviet era. All India-Isreali-US transactions are very recent after formation of Russia, when Russia exercised cordial relations with these nations.

Forget about your thoughts on JF 17, pls follow this link, Could Pakistan base nukes in China as it develops its nuclear submarine? , its a blog of a retired IAF officer Vijainder K Thakur. Though he feels JF 17's capabilities are exaggerated, it is still a threat.

Yea, you have a point. Would you want to be a soldier on the ground looking up to a bomb the JF-17 just dropped b/c it is not the most advanced fighter out there?

Murugan has a very valid point, junk or not, the JF-17 wouldn't be flying w/o Russia!

 

[Vladimir79]

I was just trying to be sarcastic to prove that Eurofighter is a costly jet. I know that India is pursuing a 5th gen platform and compared to that euro fighter's price will look obsolete.

Forget the Eurofighter. There are other cheap options out there. You want them to get the conventional Gripen, more F-16 52s, or even more J-10?

The only request you should be making is to stop under-estimating Chinese products.Wheter it is junk or not it still has to be shot down in case of war? JF 17 would not even have come into existence if Russia had not approved RD 93!

Why not? My president says it is third generation and who knows better? We not only redisgned it, we make the engines. So you can be confident it is what he says it is. It is certainly better to go up against obsolete junk than fight a real 4th gen. fighter. The upgrades Pakistan is going for isn't even going to make it 4th gen. The Grifo-S7 radar is still the same junk they already have in J-7MP. I'm sorry you feel Russia has betrayed you, but you are really overeacting to the threat.

 

[StealthSniper]

The only request you should be making is to stop under-estimating Chinese products. Wheter it is junk or not it still has to be shot down in case of war? JF 17 would not even have come into existence if Russia had not approved RD 93!

Jf-17 and alot of other projects in Pakistan wouldn't be in existance if USA didn't fund Pakistan billions in aid money.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

what cooling system will be used for the Grifo it is known to overheat????

 

[Quickgun Murugan]

Forget the Eurofighter. There are other cheap options out there. You want them to get the conventional Gripen, more F-16 52s, or even more J-10?



Why not? My president says it is third generation and who knows better? We not only redisgned it, we make the engines. So you can be confident it is what he says it is. It is certainly better to go up against obsolete junk than fight a real 4th gen. fighter. The upgrades Pakistan is going for isn't even going to make it 4th gen. The Grifo-S7 radar is still the same junk they already have in J-7MP. I'm sorry you feel Russia has betrayed you, but you are really overeacting to the threat.

Thanks I get your point! I personally love Russia because of all its help it provided to us militarily. Probably because of that obsession about Russia, I might have over-reacted.

Though I still feel, Russia should'nt have signed the deal, further arguments in this topic will only lead to both of us to same point(our opinion) and would be futile.

 

[Vladimir79]

Thanks I get your point! I personally love Russia because of all its help it provided to us militarily. Probably because of that obsession about Russia, I might have over-reacted.

Though I still feel, Russia should'nt have signed the deal, further arguments in this topic will only lead to both of us to same point(our opinion) and would be futile.

Look at the bright side, at least you will have some quality target practice.

 

[Quickgun Murugan]

Look at the bright side, at least you will have some quality target practice.

hope IAF takes it that way.

btw you know any good moderators here in this forum, who can clean the mess of the members who currently have derailed the thread to a point wherein one can't understand the relevance of thread.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

"isn't it strange all the 9/11 bombers were middle eastern and USA went to war in Afganistan?? And Osama bin laden is not even being sought any longer; the whole premise for the afghan war that was sold to the public."

The Taliban in Afghanistan were hosting Bin Laden. The US told the Taliban to turn over Bin Laden. The Taliban refused. Hence, the bombing and invasion of Afghanistan.

The US made a mistake at Tora Bora. The US should have surrounded the caves at Tora Bora with its own troops; sent in via helicopters. Instead the US relied on Pakistani troops on the Pakistani border. Most likely, Bin Laden paid a very big tribe and some Pakistani troops let him slip into northwest Pakistan. Since there are tens of millions of people in northwestern Pakistan, it's next to impossible to find Bin Laden in those mountains. Unless someone is willing to betray him for the American reward.

US bombed the crap out of that area many new weapons were used ,but after all that effort why was the division in the CIA to find him closed??

CIA Closes bin Laden Department - Blogcritics Politics

3 YEARS AGO.