Why cant India start covert ops in Pakistan ????

Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by neo29, Feb 25, 2011.

  1. neo29

    neo29 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Ours is a country which has immensely suffered the wrath of terrorism over the years. This act of terrorism is blossomed in our neighboring Jihad factory called Pakistan. The world seems more concerned in providing "aid" to Pakistan while the establishment in the background busy plotting various terror schemes for India.

    Operation Tupac started by Zia ul Haq has been still active and sorry to say quite successful against India. India on their other hand opted for diplomatic pressure and back channels talks whenever a terrorist act happens in India.

    Is it not shameful on the Indian governments part in dealing with a menace that has time and again punched us in the face and all we want to do is sit down and talk ???

    Israel is a country that has probably suffered equivalent or more terrorist menace than India. But their response is different. They deal with terrorist with covert operations. Best example being Wrath of God. 11 athletes killed and they managed hunt and kill every terrorist responsible for it. 26/11 killed 164 people and India is yet to hang the caught terrorist let alone the mastermind who still enjoy in Pakistan.

    India's most wanted criminals and terrorists are in Pakistan in safe havens being helped by the Pakistan establishment against India. This list consists of Dawood Ibrahim, Sayeed Salahudeen, Maulana Masood Azhar, Hafiz Saeed, Zaki ur Rehman and the list goes on. India knows their whereabouts in Pakistan. But what has India done apart from talks which fail everytime ????

    India has the capacity to launch a covert operation in Pakistan to hunt down and kill everyone in the most wanted list. But why did India chose diplomatic channels especially with Pakistan when over the years history has taught us that Diplomacy with Pakistan aint going to work. Why isnt any government who comes to power have the guts to authorize covert ops in Pakistan ???
     
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  3. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Well, even if India were to start, or has started, covert operations in Pakistan, we wouldn't know about it. Who knows, we might have already started :smile:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 25, 2011
  4. natarajan

    natarajan Senior Member Senior Member

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    Our netas dont bother about nation,dont expect anything
     
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  5. Phenom

    Phenom Regular Member

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    1) Lack of political will
    2) Obsession of our political leadership to solve the dispute with Pakistan at any cost.
    3) Fear that any covert operation would affect the "Moral high ground" that India has.
     
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  6. anoop_mig25

    anoop_mig25 Senior Member Senior Member

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    instead of starting any suppose covert operations , we should have strong networks or strong assets that can be used in case of war as well as bursting terrorism network within india or outside
     
  7. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Blame I.K Gujral and his Gujral Doctrine. It killed RAW operations in pak and made it toothless. All the painfully created assets were disbanded.
    Whenever Pak lays allegations of india creating trouble in pak as far as balochistan is concerned or other acts blamed on raw, I only wish they were true. If we had not disbanded our assets then, who knows the quagmire pak finds itself in would have given india another crack at dismembering pak.
     
  8. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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    neo29,


    Define what you mean by: covert ops. If by covert ops, you mean military or intelligence reconnaissance, or mission objectives like clandestine assassinations, support for subversion or sabotage, strategic anti-state agencies, subsidiary control over the polity, resources or sections of the military alike, then covert ops have been a fact of life since decades. They have been conducted since inception, by both countries.

    But I think you mean: clandestine op. Covert ops are distinct from clandestine ops, in that covert ops place emphasis on concealment of the identity of the sponsor, not concealment of the operation. To that end, we will never know, except in retrospect, whether India conducts clandestine ops in Pakistan or not and given, the secrecy with which we guard our intelligence operations, probably not for a long time.

    It is not for nothing that the Pakistanis b!tch and whine about Indian intelligence agencies in Afghanistan. They do exist, as with Iran. But to a more modest degree than is made out <,which is also a form of subversion, called propaganda>.

    A word on Zia-ul-Haq's "Operation Tupac". The objectives of Operation Tupac were; a) to disintegrate India; b) to utilize the spy network to act as an instrument of sabotage; c) to exploit porous borders with Nepal and Bangladesh to set up bases and conduct operations.

    To that end, Operation Tupac was more defeat than accomplishment. i) was never realized, and ii) and iii) met with only partial success. Now, the 'reverberation' has been that millions of dollars were poured into the event, where those could have been used for other things. Nonetheless, it has led to a greater publicity for Kashmir. And one that has single handedly purged any major incorporation by India into the territorial Union. But, it has also led to a re-militarization of Kashmir and to an impulsion for Pakistan to keep troops along its border, an arms race in which Pakistan has no chance of victory and the possible 'hijacking' of non-state agencies that have proved to be a problem for Pakistan in Pakistani-occupied-Kashmir itself.

    As for Dawood Ibrahim, he is not being pursued because his bringing-in would open a pandora's box, in the most literal sense of the words, including links with some of our seniormost politicians, big businessmen and film industry.

    Hafiz Saeed, Sayeed Salahudeen and Maulana Azhar are political cauldrons for Pakistan, but that is not our sh!t to deal wit.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2011
  9. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    We have handled massive covert ops in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Myanmar, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Bhutan and even China.

    RAW has carried out espionage activities in China with CIA in the '70s to pick up info about their nuclear tests.

    Israel is diplomatically protected by the US, so their methods of operation is different from ours.
     
  10. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    :tape: dont discuss intell matters.............. but we are not sleeping either............. look what Pak is crying about........ :gossip:...........:india:
     
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  11. captonjohn

    captonjohn Regular Member

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    Actually the Pakistan is not Lebnan or Philistine so we can deal with pakistan like Israel does. Our leadership fears to take daring actions and fears from war, they just want their money and power. This situation is not similar like with Israel and hence we can't just follow Israel. Diplomatically, suppose our government has guts to start covert operation along LOC, POK, inside pakistan then whole scene could be changed but for this first we will have to throw out our so called peaceful mask and should do what we ought to do.

    Also such operation comes with high risk of full scale wars and hence we can't start such operation until we don't get fully prepared to have a war with Pakistan and if this happened then China would surely fight with Pakistan. Hence to develop a strength to fight and win a war against Pak-China axis is still a dream and we can't get it until we don't change our policies, doctrines and modernize our forces on priority basis without doing any politics.
     
  12. warriorextreme

    warriorextreme Senior Member Senior Member

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  13. tarunraju

    tarunraju Moderator Moderator

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    Looking at the state Pakistan is in, it isn't far-fetched to think that they're already underway.
     
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  14. Suryakiran

    Suryakiran Regular Member

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  15. tarunraju

    tarunraju Moderator Moderator

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    Most likely not, because our agencies won't come up with such a retarded name as "blue tulasi". Pakistanis have a habit of stitching together whatever Indian words they can to come up with retarded names to "Indian spies" and covert ops. You'll easily come across made-up names such as "Prithviraj Iyer" or "Srinivas Mishra", which you know just by looking that they're made up. Of course there's a slim possibility of a Rajput+Tamil Brahmin couple naming their kid Prithviraj Iyer, in today's cosmopolitan society, but something rings that "bullshit!" bells in you when Pakistani press comes up with such names. ;)
     
  16. Suryakiran

    Suryakiran Regular Member

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    "Prithviraj Iyer" .. lol..

    But, Isn't our Intelligence Agencies providing any kind support to Pakistani Taliban or Baluchistan Liberation Army?

    Initially, Nobody believed that India was supporting Northern Alliance in Afghanistan. But the cooperation came to light when Northern Alliance Commander Ahmad Shah Massoud was treated by the Indian doctors after the suicide attack
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2011
  17. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    The biggest success of a covert organization is that it's cover is not blown. There is no way to find out operations carried out by them until there documents become de classified or cover is blown. So assuming that there is no operations getting carried out is naive to say at least.
     
  18. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Ok, this is hearsay.

    This happened after some terrorists strayed into Himachal Pradesh and killed some villagers before being hunted down and killed.

    Subsequently, Indian commandos sneaked into PoK in the night, beheaded some villagers, and came back. It was done to send the message that we too are capable of it.


    Now, for those who know better, is this true, partially true or just a rumour?

    Thanks
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2011
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  19. neo29

    neo29 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Most of you guys have mentioned that India Intelligence is not sitting idle and doing work in other countries like Nepal, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka etc. There have been reported instances of RAW operatives catching terrorists in Nepal and Oman and bringing them back to India. But all these operations were done with a view of defence and not offence. Lot of terrorists try to sneek inside India and RAW has been quite successful in nabbing them.

    But this does not qualify as a fight to the enemy. After 26/11 even if we attacked Pakistan the world would have not said a word. This is just a black ops aimed at assassinating the perpetrators of terrorist attacks. US itself is doing the same openly in front of Pakistan. India needs to do it without anyone knowing about it.

    It all depends on government policy. No one has the guts to implement so, as one poster has mentioned India wants to be morally good in front of everyone and does want to get caught doing this.
     
  20. Oracle

    Oracle New Member

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    Mate, it was on Nanda Devi and not in China.
     
  21. sant

    sant Regular Member

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    Yes Possible with strong will power.
     

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