Why can't India have a People's Prime Minister?

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by hello_10, Nov 19, 2012.

  1. hello_10

    hello_10 Tihar Jail Banned

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    Why India needs an elected Prime Minister

    I am astonished at the speed with which some people, who never tired of singing praises of Pranab Mukherjee earlier, have started denigrating him no sooner than he turned his back on the Ministry of Finance.

    I am even more astonished at the touching faith that these people have placed in the prime minister, who has temporarily taken charge of the finance ministry, to turn the economic situation around. It is being projected as if an era has ended and a new era is about to begin.

    It is also being made out as if Pranab Mukherjee alone was responsible for the policy paralysis in the government. Nothing could be more erroneous.

    What is the relationship between the prime minister and the finance minister? How is the budget prepared? How are other economic policy decisions taken in government? The only person outside the finance ministry that the finance minister takes into confidence about his budgetary proposals is the prime minister.

    So, between the finance minister and the prime minister, at least four-five meetings take place to discuss the budget. In these meetings, the PM and FM discuss the general approach to the budget in the context of the prevailing economic situation, the detailed expenditure proposals, the detailed revenue proposals, the fiscal and revenue deficits, and finally, the budget speech.

    Every proposal that the FM includes in the budget is approved by the prime minister. Every word of the budget speech is seen and approved by him.

    If the prime minister himself is a former finance minister, who has not only presented five budgets but has spent his whole life in the finance ministry, the RBI and the Planning Commission, the depth of his interest in and understanding of the budget can be easily imagined.

    The same applies to all major policy pronouncements made by the finance minister separately from the budget during the course of the year.

    Was this arrangement followed when Pranab Mukherjee was the finance minister? If not, will the prime minister explain why it was not followed? And, if it was, then is it right for the prime minister to distance himself today from the decisions of Pranab Mukherjee? The malaise which afflicts the UPA government runs deeper than merely the relationship between Manmohan Singh and Pranab Mukherjee.

    In May 2004, when Sonia Gandhi appointed Manmohan Singh as the Prime Minister of India, a section of the media went to town praising the new arrangement.

    We were told that Sonia Gandhi would look after politics and Manmohan Singh would look after governance; that never before in the history of independent India had this kind of out-of-the-box arrangement been tried before; that given Sonia Gandhi's mastery of politics and Manmohan Singh's mastery of government this arrangement was bound to work wonders for India.

    For a while, these predictions seemed to come true when the economy was booming and the country was moving forward. Now, this arrangement has come unstuck. It has failed because it was flawed ab initio. The Constitution of India envisages that the prime minister will not merely be the head of government but also the tallest leader of his party.

    The distinction between politics and governance is untenable. If it was not so, then the Cabinet Secretary could easily have been designated as prime minister and he would have ruled in the company of other secretaries. The whole system of accountability of the government to Parliament and its collective responsibility is predicated upon the prime minister being both the leader of the government as well as of the people of India.

    Such a prime minister alone can exercise total authority of his office. If the authority is split between the prime minister and the leader of his party - who is also the chairperson of UPA and NAC - clearly we are dealing with a severely handicapped prime minister.

    This flaw has been further compounded by the fact that though in the last eight years we have had two general elections, Manmohan Singh has not contested either.

    This is why he was described as the 'unelected' prime minister by The Economist in a recent article. If being unelected is such a virtue, then why has the Constitution of India provided for a directly elected Lok Sabha and why have so many of us wasted our time and energy contesting elections?

    The answer is simple. Contesting elections, nursing a constituency, keeping in daily touch with the people, roaming from village to village and tackling problems at the grassroots give one an insight and experience which is unparalleled and which no textbook can teach.

    I was an IAS officer for over 24 years, worked in the field as well as the secretariat but would like to assert that the rich experience I gained from dealing with the people as an elected representative is something I could not have acquired anywhere else. When did the prime minister last visit a village?

    It is true that the Constitution of India does not prescribe that the prime minister should be an elected member of the Lok Sabha. I wish it had. But the established convention of the Constitution is that the prime minister, even if he is a member of the upper House, should seek the first opportunity to get elected to the Lok Sabha.

    This convention has been violated with impunity. Instead of protesting against it, the intellectual class has actually applauded it. I have nothing against Manmohan Singh personally. My grievance is against those who constantly overrate him.

    The crisis in India today is not merely an economic crisis. It is a crisis of leadership in the UPA. The Prime Minister of India cannot be a bureaucrat. He/she has to be an elected or electable leader of the people. Authority is not bestowed merely by the post one occupies, but is acquired through qualities of leadership.
    (The writer is a former finance minister)

    Why India needs an elected Prime Minister - Economic Times
     
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  3. hello_10

    hello_10 Tihar Jail Banned

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    India at least needs a democratic structure like US where a president is chosen by the voters. this way, there will not be any policy paralysis due to a 'minority government' who always needs to beg to its allies for key decision makings. Mr Manmohan Singh can hardly work as an assistant of Finance Minister, no more than that..... he isn't eligible to either lead the government as he is not elected, nor he would be put on the front as PM to hide the corrupts of congress/ mainly these traitors like Sonia/Rahul/Digvijay. all these people get money in their foreign banks by the foreign elements in return of selling India's national interests and there is no reason to keep them in power because one man is 'so called' honest, and on the top of that, he is a minority also, so all these would continue as it is..........:frusty: :toilet:
     
  4. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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  5. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    I dont think Indian politicians want to change anything. They like the present system where ineffective and incompetent people can become PM because this what our politicians are mostly comprised of. Its like locking yourselves up and throwing away key which the politicians wont do.
     
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  6. hello_10

    hello_10 Tihar Jail Banned

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    he is the man who is leading the most corrupt government in the history of India since independence but he claims he is an honest man? I wonder, is there any other country who may shy to say wrong about this big liar just because he is a minority? :tsk:

    India needs a democratic structure at least similar to that of US where Indians would have right to chose a President who would then be liable for the government. a pig like Manmohan Singh is nothing but a shame for the nation who want to remain Indian PM anyhow and till then, he will help all these corrupt ministers of Sonia/Rahul who are looting this country. Manmohan Singh himself can't win any election and to remain on this position, he will keep defending these corrupts/traitors . while on the other hand, we have report that all these Manmohan/Sonia/Rahul etc are getting foreign money in their foreign accounts from the western countries for selling national interests of India. the indications are that now even Indian media is funded by the foreigners through these traitors........

    these snakes will have to be tackled one day..........::shoot:
     
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  7. drkrn

    drkrn Senior Member Senior Member

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    the thing is indias politics still primarily depends largely on caste biased ,money dependent politics.
    so if a person stands for p.m other caste people don't vote him to power even if he is efficient

    a very good suggestion from @hello_10
    i wish this could happen in near future.we need a strong p.m
     
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  8. hello_10

    hello_10 Tihar Jail Banned

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    the problem with Mr Manmohan Singh is that, he thinks of common people 'fool' who dont understand why he wants to stick with the post of Indian PM. first he is not elected by himself, he can't be said to be People's Prime Minister, nor he can win even a single seat by himself also. but still he wants to remain Indian PM then its because he is waiting for that certain time when he will have enough opportunity to hand it over to Rahul Gandhi, as guided by enemies of India. everyone knows that if a man gets a high position by help of his Lords, then he is likely to remain loyal of his Lord only and this is how Mr M.Singh is a Pet Dog of Sonia, in return of the post of Indian PM, hence serving interests of foreign governments this way......

    we can see too many credible people in Congress itself who may lead the nation, whether its Mr Krishna, Mr Antony, Mr Chidambaram and similar others. but my favorites are Mr Sharad Pawar, Mr P.A.Sangma, Mr MS.Yadav for the post of Indian PM who are allies of Congress itself. then why dont we find a sense that any of these deserving people to lead India, may get a chance to lead the nation as Indian Prime Minister? why only 'unelected' Mr Singh or this Rahul only????? :pop: :frusty: and here the question is, what these 3 people want to do with India, the nation, and how will they fulfill interests of foreign governments in their shameless way to keep high positions in Congress/Government in either way????? these 3 'anti-national' elements, Mr Singh, Mr Rahul, Mrs Sonia must be kicked as soon as possible and then only the common people of India would vote for Congress........:shoot:
     
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  9. hello_10

    hello_10 Tihar Jail Banned

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    for example of this recent news as above, I dont understand, how can an 'unelected' PM be allowed to address the nation? I mean, whats the logic to allow an 'unelected' person to address the nation on any issue, and what type of 'democracy' is this???? and the case become serious when this man, "chosen by foreigners", has allowed FDI in retails to harm domestic market, to benefit the foreigners which is quite clear, while the government he leads doesn't have majority to do so also? for example, if SP, BSP, TMC and 'allies' parties called for even "Bharat Bandh" against FDI in retails, and congress doesn't have majority to form government without support from these 'allies'. then here, what type of explanation this unelected man wants to give in support of FDI in retails, which he has passed without clear majority in Indian Parliament "for support for FDI in retails" ???????
     
  10. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    hellow 10, have you ever read, Constitution of India, please read it, then understand it, then see if you are asking right question.
    Best of luck.
     
  11. hello_10

    hello_10 Tihar Jail Banned

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    sir, the case here is about helping the foreigners based in US/West. and I know that "Team Sonia" is funding Indian media against the India itself to fulfill interests of US/UK, first because this is what I know. and second, please have a look on the two news as below. a clear lie by this same "Economics Times" about 1971 war while the true story is at the bottom........

    western powers first want to bring India in the position to ask help and then they may make India to do what they want, in return of Western help, they think like this...........
    we do need a team of RAW who would start scoring all these traitors one by one :india:

     
  12. hello_10

    hello_10 Tihar Jail Banned

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    do you think that Im trying to prove that he became PM against the laws of Constitution????? No, its not the case, and you don't even need primary education to understand that it won't be the case otherwise he won't become PM.... :tsk:

    here we are discussing flaws of Indian Consitution, and the ways to fix it. read the article of post #1, the main two paragraphs as below: (the writer was a IAS officer, and former Finance Minister.)
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2012
  13. hello_10

    hello_10 Tihar Jail Banned

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    '
    Why Sonia-Rahul want to be in India? what they are intended to achieve, and to benefit whom?

    We discuss conspiracy theories on the basis of ‘logical arguments’ only and I remember, few street people in India told us around 10-11 years before, while having tea on a small tea shop, while discussing why Jamima Khan kicked Imran Khan but not Sonia did the same with Rajiv Gandhi? And they argued, if Sanjay Gandhi might not have died in 1980 then he could become Indian Prime Minister in 1984 and Sonia Gandhi might be said to be a wife of a senior Pilot only as Rajiv Gandhi was just a professional Pilot. and no western would marry with a south Asian if he is an engineer, doctor, Pilot or a cricketer and then she would move to India to live in India. Western girl are quite comfortable in dating different nationals while living in a Western country only, no more than that (also South Asian countries weren’t developed enough in 80s and in early 90s as compare to right now…………..)

    We call current Indian government as Manmohan government but I don’t think Dr Manmohan Singh would be selecting even 10 out of 542 candidates for Congress for parliamentary elections. He gave ticket to none of ministers he lead and they are ministers because they are grateful for that to Sonia Gandhi, not the Mr Singh. And when Mr Rahul Gandhi will find that the right time has come, just within next 2-3 years, Dr Singh will leave his PM seat for him without any noise, a common sense. You need to be at least over 18 year old for voting in India, but even an Indian kid knows that Mr Anna is right to say few months before that he will sit in front of house of Sonia Gandhi to get a powerful Lokpal in India as everyone knows Dr M Singh himself is just nothing………….

    Similarly, if Sanjay Gandhi could become Indian PM in 1984 then it could be Varun Gandhi in line for post of Indian PM right now, not the Rahul. Also, everyone sitting in the Indian parliament knows that even if Rajesh Pilot and Madhavrao Scindia were just number 2 and 3 in congress in early 2000, they were going to kick Sonia if they could become Indian Prime Minister in 2004 and then sons of either Rajesh Pilot or Mr Sindhia could be in line of top politics, not the Rahul Gandhi who would then give full control to his mother Sonia. And about Dr Singh, he is just nothing expect a man who can do the work as a PM in a better way and would leave his position when he is told to do so by Sonia Gandhi. Dr Singh just cant have good number of votes to win a election on his own. Many old people used to say in India in early 90s that after Indira Gandhi, none of her Heir was going to be Indian Prime Minister if Indira Gandhi might not have been killed, the women who did much for India. The reason, a ‘Political Kira’ like V.P. Singh missed to organize a bomb blast on his own family and couldn’t earn local sympathy which Congress earned after assassination of Rajiv Gandhi in 1991, what people used to say in early 90s. (removing Gandhi's one by one was also very important to maintain sympathy of common Indian public for Gandhi family.) But Sonia Gandhi was absolutely right for not trying for post of PM in early 90s, as, first she was not going to get full majority as a foreign born person and second, there was an environment in India in early 90s that foreign companies were buying all the Indian companies one by one, newspapers like Rashtriya Sahara/ Times of India and many other Indian newspapers were openly saying that those foreign companies were capable enough to make India financial slave so it was good that Mr N Rao and Dr M Singh would be put on front to do that, not the foreign born Sonia Gandhi herself? But things changed by late 90s and even BJP government continued on the policy of open market and then Mr Pilot and Mr Scindia, the number 2 and 3, were removed in early 2000 and then remote controlled Mr Singh was then put on the seat of PM in 2004 as a successful person on his policy of Open Market (while average growth rate of India for 1991 to 2002 was hardly around 5.3%.........)

    => Also, It is found that in over 90% cases of plots/ murders or conspiracies, only the main beneficiaries was/ were found guilty. and all these as below were having their 'first' claim on the post of PM in behalf of Congress Party. and after removal of these all in an "un-natural" way, all died in accidents or murders, then this foreign born Sonia and her foreign minded son has become heir of post of PM, and till then they have put this remote controlled PM. and we all know that she is serving interests of US/West, even by their efforts to organize religous riots by using people like Digvijay Singh...........

    (Note: Rajesh Pilot and Madhavrao Scindia were the number 2 and 3 respectively in congress in early 2000 and then Remote Controlled Dr Manmohan Singh became Indian Prime Minister in 2004.)
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2012
  14. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    seriously you need to read and understand what is our Constitution.
    are you aware of the fact that our President Election is same as election of US President. Or the fact that for Raja Sabha Seat, you have to be elected.

    As far as PM is concern it is not PM who run the Govt, it is PM along with Union Cabinate who run the country and they are responsible to the Parliament. Parliament is will of the People. If PM does not have trust of Parliament (will of People) he can not continue in his office, that is why no trust or trust motion in Parliament. Therefore he is PM of People of India, not just PM of those who like him.
     
  15. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    People, who praised Pranab M once and are blaming him for all the ills is nothing unusual in India. Pranab M decided the economic fate of many since he not only chalked the economic policies that affected the fat cats of Indian society, but also had powers over the govt agencies like the ED and IT which could be used for a variety of purposes including ensuring that these agencies do not work against the vested interests that are favourable to the Govt, its governance satraps and other operatives.

    If indeed Pranab M is to blame for all the economic and financial errors in governance, one wonders if the PM was merely a showpiece at the helm. It is unbelievable that the captain of the ship is asleep at the wheel allowing anyone to do anything one likes. That speaks of total moribund leadership. To be fair to the PM, he was never the captain of his soul and master of his fate. He was not an elected person and he was and is well aware that he has no hope in hell to win any election. He was thus carrying a very heavy baggage in the competitive political arena. To add to his woes, he was but a handmaiden of the High Command toip honcho and hence could hardly be called a man of his own decisions. It is inconceivable that with the elevation of Pranab M, he found a second wind to rush through with the so called ‘reforms. The fact that these reforms are still born even now, indicates the powerful forces that hamstring him (the PM) and what is more, he has come out worse with all the flip flop of ‘bold’ financial reforms that his new FM has grandstanded about. In fact, the whole show has turned out to be another Flop Show and with the threat of no confidence motion looming, more concessions to unsavoury customers will have to be doled out if the Govt is to run its full term. Hardly it is the right prescription of a bold PM with a bold Govt.

    The fact that the JPC, PAC and the CAG are not being allowed to function indicates the morbid fear of the Govt being further exposed. What stops the PM or the Ministers from deposing before the JPC etc? They are after all accountable to the People and the Parliament, as they proudly claim, is the mandate of the people!! Only those who have reasons to fear will shy away from facing the truth and find scapegoats to pin the blame for misgovernance and total folly.

    I am astonished at the speed with which some people, who never tired of singing praises of Pranab Mukherjee earlier, have started denigrating him no sooner than he turned his back on the Ministry of Finance.


    I am even more astonished at the touching faith that these people have placed in the prime minister, who has temporarily taken charge of the finance ministry, to turn the economic situation around. It is being projected as if an era has ended and a new era is about to begin.

    Therefore, it is a canard that all the faults are that of the erstwhile FM. They are all responsible for the mess and the PM more so being the leader and head of the team, even if horribly kept on a leash by his own Ministers and the High Command.

    If indeed Pranab M was a greater force than the PM in the cabinet, it speaks poorly of the PM and demoralises the Nation that a incapable puppet heads the machinery that decides the fate of the common man. Such canards are best not said.

    Unless the Congress cleans the Augean stables and hoof off the sycophants, camp followers and hangers on and unless the Party stops dictating to the Govt, there is no hope in hell for good governance.
     
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  16. hello_10

    hello_10 Tihar Jail Banned

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    and you could get just nothing out of the article of this thread, nor from any of my posts....... thanks anyway
     
  17. hello_10

    hello_10 Tihar Jail Banned

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    well said, and I also said the same in my post #7, in just one clear and straight line as below. and the same concept is applied on Mr Pranab M also. and this is what we are trying to find in this thread, why can't the common people of India get their fate on their hands, why can't Indians have a People's PM :namaste:

     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2012
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  18. hello_10

    hello_10 Tihar Jail Banned

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    sir I always have to understand that we just can't start talking to people of 20s until we give them a level of information. and if you check my threads then I first try to give a proper information to the readers of my thread and then I talk to them, to first let them understand that certain key Geo-Political topic first.

    and as I always have something very special to say, my own finding on key issues, so I always wish to keep a separate thread of key topic to keep a record of it thanks
     
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  19. hello_10

    hello_10 Tihar Jail Banned

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    I used to have a strong support for FDIs in industries in early 90s as we wanted to see India as a place for foreign FDI, which would provide high skills/low labor cost with good infrastructure to foreign companies, who would then manufacture their products in India and sell it in rest of world, hence generating jobs for the locals of India, similar to how China/ASEAN/East Asia/South America became so favorable destination for FDIs in different industries in 80s/90s. and the result we find that we now have production lines of even BMW/Mercedes in India also as they first manufacture their cars in India, sell them to Indian Middle Class also but mostly they export it to rest of world, generating employment for Indian Skilled/non-skilled people both. but even since 90s, it was clear that FDI in retails will harm the domestic shops/services, as, how selling shops/services to foreigners will help the common public of India????

    this Outward Remittances of $11bn/year can well rise to above $50bil by 2020, if you sell your shops to foreigners, the services which accounts for about 55% of $2tn Indian economy. there must be a clear sense, why would India 'hand over' its shops to Western companies, while India already have home Super Markets also, which may be improved by introducing new supply chain concepts etc??? and also, until the outer world is unstable, why can't we delay FDI in retails for few more years, to help our home Super Markets get matured to face competition by Wal Mark etc. :ranger:

    (also, why the government is shy to mention the unacceptable increase in 'Foreign Interference' in India through this FDI in retails, which will make India a very easy target to those Western Champions who just try to get something done in India, somehow, this or that way?????)
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2012
  20. hello_10

    hello_10 Tihar Jail Banned

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    now see what this pig say in support of "FDI in Retails", I do remember those days of 'PM Chandrashekhar' when even gold had to be pledged because India didn't have as much foreign reserve that it could import even edible oil also, less than $1.0bn. while right now India has close to $300bil foreign reserve, import of luxury stuffs accounts for close to $50bil every year, and foreign companies send over $11bil every year???????????

    this pig is shy to say that now the 'falling' US+EU needs help from India, why he wants to give business of services to them, which accounts for around 55% of total Indian economy. and now we are worried that this Outflow of money may well cross over $50bil by 2020, if we allow FDI in Services, and this man wants to remind us about those days when Indis didn't have even $1.0bn foreign reserve in 1991??????? while India reached that state also because Russian economy faced sudden fall since 1990 due to collapse of SU and Indian economy was very much aligned with SU also that time??????

    this pig would be kicked from Indian politics as soon as possible, before he may give any big loss to Indian economy.....
     
  21. hello_10

    hello_10 Tihar Jail Banned

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    in what way Mr Singh finds Indian economy in comparison of 1991, while now the US's and EU's economies needs help and India would now be worried for "Outward Remittances" from the foreign companies???? as we now have every technology in India itself, to help the Indian companies to modernize by themselves by introducing new supply chain techs etc??? then, in what way Mr Singh finds Indian economy in comparison to 1991, when we did need foreign technologies, but now we dont need foreign techs to that extent??????

    also, it was clear even since 90s that FDI in Retails would badly harm the Indian Economy, so why dont we remember those reasons, why we didn't allow FDI in Retails in 90s, and whats new reasons we have got now that we now need FDI in Retails while now we don't have any 'Rao' type powerful leaders in Congress also, who may tell us, why he didn't let the Services go on the hands of foreigners in 90s, which accounts for 55% in Indian economy????

    and interestigly, this traitor 'suddenly' identified this big threat on economy over night, and passed the bill of "FDI in retails" over night? the so called anti-national step, labeled by Congress itself one time???????? :shoot:

     

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