Why are we phasing out the mig-23 before the mig-21 ?

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by ashdoc, Nov 5, 2010.

  1. ashdoc

    ashdoc Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,766
    Likes Received:
    965
    The mig 23 MF , the interceptor version of mig23 was phased out in 2007.

    Mig 23 BN s are also being phased out.

    The MRCA is supposed to replace the mig 23.

    Why did we start to phase out the mig 23 before the mig 21 ,considering that it is a later generation aircraft.......and especially considering that the mig 21 crashes regularly.
     
  2.  
  3. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    31,640
    Likes Received:
    17,124
    Location:
    EST, USA
    IMHO, Indian Air Force does not really need the MiG-23MF anymore. These are heavily downgraded version of the original Soviet MiG-23M and today, rather useless as an interceptor. They are good as observation posts, however, being 'swing-wing' (variable geometry) aircraft, they are expensive to maintain and if they are not going to be used for interception, then we have other fixed wing aircraft for observation and hence MiG-23MF becomes redundant.

    The MiG-23MF is also a good fighter, but Indian Air Force needs to move on.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2010
    nirranj and W.G.Ewald like this.
  4. pankaj nema

    pankaj nema Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2009
    Messages:
    3,450
    Likes Received:
    1,407
    The Mig 23 MF a fighter plane and Mig 23 BN a ground attack plane , both have been replaced by Mig 29 and Mig 27 respectively

    Unlike the Mig 21 Bison there was no possibility of upgrading the Mig 23

    Mig 23 had some serious design problems and was considered a more difficult plane to control for the pilot
    than even the Mig 21
     
    W.G.Ewald likes this.
  5. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    27,581
    Likes Received:
    28,368
    Location:
    BHARAT, INDIA, HINDUSTHAN
    1. Mig-23 is swing wing deign aircraft without fly by wire tech, Its more unstable than a Mig-21..

    2. Spares are very limited coz throughout the world their are no countries are use of Mig-23 only Africans are where as east-block countries still use Mig-21& 29 so spares are available for Mig-21..

    3. Tech problems while installing longer BVRs and sophisticated radar, the nose cone doesn't allow modification coz it will destabilize aerodynamics of the aircraft..
    Where as MIG-21 have enough space and delta wing for carrying R-77 bvrs..

    4. Operational cost are more of a MIG-23/27 coz of complex deign hence more maintenance where MIG-21 is a simple delta-wing..
     
  6. shaka

    shaka Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2010
    Messages:
    183
    Likes Received:
    22
    All Mig 23 are already gone, guys.
    IAF current invertory for fighter/ground attack is:
    1. Mig-21Bis, Bison
    2. Mig-27ML,U
    3. Mig-29A
    4. Su-30MKI
    5. M2000H
    6. JaguarIS,IM

    Not sure about Mig21M, i think these are history as well, if 31-32 squadron streangth news are true.
     
    W.G.Ewald likes this.
  7. shaka

    shaka Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2010
    Messages:
    183
    Likes Received:
    22
    I read somewhere all Mig-21 except Bisons are going in 2-3 years, Bisons are supposed to be retired by 2017-18. No major upgrades for Mig27 mean IAF want to get rid of these as well. These are plagued by crashes and there up-time is not great either. Older Jaguars will be retired by 2017-18 as well. IAF is going to look a lot different after next 10 years.
     
  8. Rahul Singh

    Rahul Singh Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Messages:
    2,538
    Likes Received:
    1,407
    In one sentence, the IAF retired MIg-23MF/BN precisely because of notoriously unreliable R-35 engine which is not the case with Mig-21.
     
    rvjpheonix likes this.
  9. M.S. GURAM

    M.S. GURAM New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2014
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    12 WING
    To all NOTE THE FOLLOWING ABOUT MIG 23 MF / UB & BN
    1 THE RUSSIAN MIG 23 MF WAS THE 1ST SWING WING INT, BUT THE RUSSIANS PRODUCED ONLY 5026 PCS IN TOTAL
    2 THIS FIGHTER REQ SKILLED AND WELL TRAINED PILOTS, WHICH THE IAF LACKS,
    3 . NO ONE WENT TO KTS 6 FOR MIG 23 SIMULATOR TRANNING IN ADAMPUR.
    4. IAF MANT. BRANCH WENT CLUE LESS AS ALL MANT. MANNUALS ARE IN RUSSIAN.
     
    bhramos, Eastman and roma like this.
  10. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2009
    Messages:
    3,247
    Likes Received:
    1,861
    WHY ?
    reason #1 :- MS GURAM above has given 4 good reasons . I love his reply especially his reasons 2,3 & 4 which gives insight into the idiocy rampant in the "system".

    #2 - Corruption is rampant with a regime under which the same seems to flourish. I watch the "Times Now" debates not so much for the journalistic excellence :rolleyes: but because there is at least one person there whom i admire for their courage :
    that is Mr Arnab Goswami and there could be a handful of them ( im glad to say )

    Under a regime in which such malpractices thrive it, should it be hardly surprising that yet another malpractice takes place ? ---and so it goes, on and on, .....and on ....

    Times Now and indeed other journalistic sources of information are revealing at least one scam every day .....one can only hope and pray that the next government led by BJP is going to be better .

    India is now in a position to be a rich country almost "overnight" - all we need is some clean folks at the top.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2014
  11. acetophenol

    acetophenol Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2011
    Messages:
    240
    Likes Received:
    120
    ji,weren't there issues with structural integrity too,some being reported with MiG 27s too?
     
    W.G.Ewald likes this.
  12. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    14,140
    Likes Received:
    8,528
    Location:
    North Carolina, USA
    http://india.blogs.nytimes.com/2013...g-21-fighter-jets/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

     
  13. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    14,140
    Likes Received:
    8,528
    Location:
    North Carolina, USA
    This from more than 4 years ago.

    Indian Air Force :: The MiG-21 Bison Upgrade Programme




     
  14. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    14,140
    Likes Received:
    8,528
    Location:
    North Carolina, USA
  15. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2009
    Messages:
    13,206
    Likes Received:
    6,638
    Location:
    Telangana/India/Bharat
    i feel none of reasons suitable for retirement..

    mainly 4th is silly.. India is the main buyer of Russian aircraft from 60's, India writes Russian manuals to English and sell to various SE Asian countries,
     
  16. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2009
    Messages:
    13,206
    Likes Received:
    6,638
    Location:
    Telangana/India/Bharat
    there is no MiG-27U aka Trainers, but instead IAF uses MiG-23UM and these are still present in IAF

    [​IMG]
     
  17. thashepherd

    thashepherd New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2014
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    13
    Location:
    Waltham, Massachusetts, United States
    It sounds like some of the reasons for the MiG-23 retirement are similar to those for the USN retiring the F-14 Tomcat: maintenance costs, training requirements, etc.

    I'm surprised that India is planning to retire her Jaguars, though. What are you guys going to have left for ground attack/tactical interdiction? It's a dangerous move to plan the entirety of your CAS future around Tejas...about as foolish as the USAF's reliance on the unproven, unfinished F-35.

    @roma: Arnab plays a role in fighting corruption, true. He's also part of a wave of media pessimism causing NRIs to lose hope in their own country - I've seen this. Sometimes a bit of nationalism, a bit of optimism though there be no reason for it, is better than realism inciting futility. Just sayin'.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
    roma likes this.
  18. SajeevJino

    SajeevJino Long walk Elite Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2012
    Messages:
    5,653
    Likes Received:
    3,032
    Location:
    Inside a Cage

    Nope ...Jagaur Replace by AMCA only


    http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-air-force/58691-suitable-jaguar-replacement.html


    http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-air-force/41573-indian-jaguar-upgrade.html
     
  19. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2009
    Messages:
    3,247
    Likes Received:
    1,861
    thanks for the mention and good post of yours
    trying to get the logic of part of it and so allow me to clarify:-
    what you said ( and im re-phrasing it in my own words, please ) is that the reality of (certain aspects ) about India is in fact a source of the feeling of futility ? ( tried to send you this by PM but i think yours is switched off ? )
    best regards, R
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  20. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    14,140
    Likes Received:
    8,528
    Location:
    North Carolina, USA
    Ever been here?

    [​IMG]
     
  21. thashepherd

    thashepherd New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2014
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    13
    Location:
    Waltham, Massachusetts, United States
    Hey! Not quite. Let's take this offline, since it's off topic. I'll send you a PM.
     

Share This Page