Why are Pakistanis obsessed with goats?

Ray

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I think, if I am not too wrong, westerners prefer eating sheep and lamb as they find eating goat repugnant, while the Middle East people and the quite a few parts of Asia prefer eating goat meat.

There were 175,000 sheep and lambs in the state of Virginia in 1975. Predators, a higher labor requirement than cattle, a declining market for wool, and limited demand for lamb are among the reasons sheep numbers declined steadily to today's 61,000 head total inventory. This downward trend is consistent with what has happened across the country with the National flock numbering 14.5 million in 1975 and declining to 5.6 million head in 2010. Virginia and other Eastern states have seen an increase in goat and sheep numbers in recent years thanks to the introduction of the South African Boer Goat and hair sheep breeds that required less labor and have greater resistance to parasites than the average wool-type sheep. Yet, trends in the state sheep inventory show no sign of returning to 1975 levels.

At the same time sheep numbers were declining, the population of ethnic communities in the northeast was growing. There have long been Mediterranean and European ethnic communities in the Northeastern U.S. that frequently enjoy fresh lamb. However the significant growth over the last decade has been in South Asian and African ethnic groups that are predominantly Muslim. The Muslim communities from Africa, Southern, and Southwest Asia are extremely diverse with significant differences in their traditions and observances. The diversity of these groups has created a market for a wide range of sheep and goats of various ages and weights. However, they share in common several traditions that greatly impact our market for lambs and goats. First, they prefer lamb over virtually any other kind of meat. Second, they prefer lamb and chevon (goat meat) they believe has been freshly slaughtered and in keeping with their particular methods and traditions. Many of these consumers often actively participate in the slaughter of the lamb or goat and the preparation of the carcass.
Good Times For Sheep & Goat Producers - Home - Virginia Cooperative Extension
 

Virendra

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3. Religous reasons for Muslim,jews and christians., it goes back to abraham sacrificing his son.
How many of them loved and lived with those goats like they would with their sons?
Did each goat ever sacrificed by every muslim mean the same to him as his son?
Did it really put them in lots of pain while sacrificing the goats whenever they did? Only then it would make sense.
I think this is a wrong corollary and an excuse for meat eating.
These days people swiftly buy and sacrifice goats like punters, as if they're fulfilling a formality.
It doesn't respect or represent Abrahim's sacrifice in any measure.
Animal sacrifice practice is found even among hindus with the name 'Bali'. It crept in during the medieval centuries.

Regards,
Virendra
 

Ray

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Goat is not a religious thing with Jews or Christians.

Europeans or their progeny are Christians and they dislike eating goat as the flavour does not suit their palate. Spanish however do eat kid goat meat.

Jews ate goat since that was what was the staple in the Middle East and not out of anything religious.

However, Sheep, lambs and Sheperds are present in these religions in many symbolic ways, perhaps more so than in other religions. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and King David were all shepherds. Sheep and shepherds are mentioned 247 times in the Bible. In the Abrahamic traditions in ancient times a lamb was considered a possession of high value, sheep signified wealth.

An excerpt from my collections:

The fact is that for out of the last 4000 plus years of Jewish history, goat meat was the main staple meat of the Jews until recently. It is incorrect to blame it on flavor since mutton and lamb are more strongly flavored and also much greasier and have a higher cholesterol content. To blame it on health or disgust is the same anachronistic reason some says Jews don't eat pork (which really is unkosher) so this is false argument.

The true reasons for the decline of goat meat (which previously #1 meat of the Jews historically) are:

1. sheep additionally provided wool over goat, [and even sheep was less eaten by most Askenazim except for those of Hungary, Czech rep, Slovakia, and Romania]

2. Goat is leaner that other red meats, and in the past, that was not considered an asset back then.

3. After the Roman diaspora, those who remained in Israel relegated goat breeding to the outskirts of eretz qedoshah ( wilderness and Syria- which falls into halachic Israel in part)in memory of destruction of the Beit HaMiqdash [which did not affect the diaspora]

4. Therefore, goatmeat was bred in the centers of the Jewish world (Babylonia, Rome[which became Italy], North Africa, and Ethiopia)

5. Traditional Italian Jewish Pesach has roasted kid with garlic, olive oil, and Egg-lemon sauce for each Seder and traditional Ethiopian jews continue the used of goat meat for Chagim
 
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Prometheus

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1. It's a national animal.
1) ya I know that, but why was it selected as the national animal? what cultural traits do the Pakistani people borrow from it ? like the tiger in India, has some cultural significance . GB has lion as their national animal even though there arent any lions in Britain ...but they have cultural threads to lions . So why did the Pakistani Govt choose the Makhor goat ? is it because you guys allow people to shoot at your national animail for a fee, just like you allow the Americans drones to shoot at you or because it looks like Osama ? I mean you could have picked up the Black bear the brown bear ....which is quite endangered or even the snow leopard ....whats the significance of picking up a goat thats not endangered or anything and then let people take a shot at it

thats wishful thinking ... Economic times just quoted Dawn ... and how much detailed info do you need to know that people are searching for porn, if you google it google registers it as a search
3. Religous reasons for Muslim,jews and christians., it goes back to abraham sacrificing his son.
thats fair enough ,but if you still dont win the match ...clearly this practice doesnt seem to work , does it?
 
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hello_10

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I think, if I am not too wrong, westerners prefer eating sheep and lamb as they find eating goat repugnant, while the Middle East people and the quite a few parts of Asia prefer eating goat meat.
I found, Pakistanis/Bangladeshis mainly try for goat meant.

Aussie eat lamb most of the time, with pork/beef/chicken also served on side

Chinese are mainly fan of pork, with beef etc too...

Japanese are fan of sea food, 'sushi' mainly, friend chicken served with rice/soup etc is popular in Japanese shops. with eating every part of beef etc too, we saw

Indians i found mainly trying for lamb, with searching goat meat in the Indian shops they import, frozen. with eating chicken mainly
:thumb:
 
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Zarvin

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How many of them loved and lived with those goats like they would with their sons?
Did each goat ever sacrificed by every muslim mean the same to him as his son?
Did it really put them in lots of pain while sacrificing the goats whenever they did? Only then it would make sense.
I think this is a wrong corollary and an excuse for meat eating.
These days people swiftly buy and sacrifice goats like punters, as if they're fulfilling a formality.
It doesn't respect or represent Abrahim's sacrifice in any measure.
Animal sacrifice practice is found even among hindus with the name 'Bali'. It crept in during the medieval centuries.

Regards,
Virendra
I would say it's for religious reasons, Jew, Christians and Muslims eat goat. As far as I know, Abraham's sacrifice of the goat was a substitute for his son and the Israelite's in the old testament ate Goat just as casually as people would do in these days. Muslims are not required to eat meat though, I'm a lacto vegetarian
 

Ray

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3. Religous reasons for Muslim,jews and christians., it goes back to abraham sacrificing his son
.
thats fair enough ,but if you still dont win the match ...clearly this practice doesnt seem to work , does it?
Allah gave Abraham a SHEEP for sacrifice.

I am keen to know how a GOAT became a religious sacrifice!
 

Zarvin

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1) ya I know that, but why was it selected as the national animal? what cultural traits do the Pakistani people borrow from it ? like the tiger in India, has some cultural significance . GB has lion as their national animal even though there arent any lions in Britain ...but they have cultural threads to lions . So why did the Pakistani Govt choose the Makhor goat ? is it because you guys allow people to shoot at your national animail for a fee, just like you allow the Americans drones to shoot at you or because it looks like Osama ? I mean you could have picked up the Black bear the brown bear ....which is quite endangered or even the snow leopard ....whats the significance of picking up a goat thats not endangered or anything and then let people take a shot at it
No idea why they picked the Goat, but it doesn't mean we are obsessed with it. As you have said yourself, we don't hold it any special regard in our day to day lives and allow people to shoot it. 180million didn't vote for it, and I think most people have bigger problems to worry about then the national animal.

thats wishful thinking ... Economic times just quoted Dawn ... and how much detailed info do you need to know that people are searching for porn, if you google it google registers it as a search
Can you provide the source?

thats fair enough ,but if you still dont win the match ...clearly this practice doesnt seem to work , does it?
If god stops answering your prayers, do you stop praying or change your God?
 

Ray

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I would say it's for religious reasons, Jew, Christians and Muslims eat goat. As far as I know, Abraham's sacrifice of the goat was a substitute for his son and the Israelite's in the old testament ate Goat just as casually as people would do in these days. Muslims are not required to eat meat though, I'm a lacto vegetarian
As above.

Abraham was ordered to sacrifice his son and he was willing to do so but God gave him a sheep to sacrifice instead of his cherished progeny.
 

Zarvin

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Allah gave Abraham a SHEEP for sacrifice.

I am keen to know how a GOAT became a religious sacrifice!
Sacrifice - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

An animal sacrifice in Arabic is called ḏabiḥa (ذَبِيْحَة) or Qurban (قُرْبَان) . The term may have roots from the Jewish term Korban; in some places such as in Pakistan, qurbani is always used for Islamic animal sacrifice. In the Islamic context, an animal sacrifice referred to as ḏabiḥa (ذَبِيْحَة) meaning "sacrifice as a ritual" is offered only in Eid ul-Adha. The sacrificial animal may be a lamb, a sheep, a goat, a camel, or a cow. The animal must be healthy and conscious. ..."Therefore to the Lord turn in Prayer and Sacrifice. " (Surat Al-Kawthar) Quran, 108.2 Qurban is an Islamic prescription for the affluent to share their good fortune with the needy in the community. On the occasion of Eid ul Adha (Festival of Sacrifice), affluent Muslims all over the world perform the Sunnah of Prophet Ibrahim (Abraham) by sacrificing a cow or sheep. The meat is then divided into three equal parts. One part is retained by the person who performs the sacrifice. The second is given to his relatives. The third part is distributed to the poor. The Qur'an states that the sacrifice has nothing to do with the blood and gore (Qur'an 22:37: "It is not their meat nor their blood that reaches God. It is your piety that reaches Him..."). Rather, it is done to help the poor and in remembrance of Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his son Ishmael at God's command.
 

Ray

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I would say it's for religious reasons, Jew, Christians and Muslims eat goat. As far as I know, Abraham's sacrifice of the goat was a substitute for his son and the Israelite's in the old testament ate Goat just as casually as people would do in these days. Muslims are not required to eat meat though, I'm a lacto vegetarian
On what do you base this to be a religious reason?

Christians and Jews don't consider it so.

If you feel so, I would be grateful if you could give a link so that I can update my knowledge since your observation is an interesting one.

As far as I know, Abraham was given a sheep for sacrifice and not a Goat. Therefore, the religious connotation of a goat is not understood.

As I said earlier, sheep was a prized possession in the Middle East since they were mostly shepherds and depended on the sheep for sustenance and hence eating the sheep and depleting the stock would not do for them..
 

Zarvin

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On what do you base this to be a religious reason?

Christians and Jews don't consider it so.

If you feel so, I would be grateful if you could give a link so that I can update my knowledge since your observation is an interesting one.

As far as I know, Abraham was given a sheep for sacrifice and not a Goat. Therefore, the religious connotation of a goat is not understood.

As I said earlier, sheep was a prized possession in the Middle East since they were mostly shepherds and depended on the sheep for sustenance and hence eating the sheep and depleting the stock would not do for them..
Yep you're right, it was a sheep and not a goat, but the religious texts do give permission to eat sheep and/or goat. The ritual sacrifice for us on the other hand,may be[as I quoted above] either a lamb, a sheep, a goat, a camel, or a cow.
 

Bhadra

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Such a long discussion.

Goat, Sheep / lamb is predominant because of its reproduction cycle of six months. For cows etc its is nine months. Hence gaots and sheep ,multiply faster and produce faster food chain cycle. It also requires less agricultural support and can depend on pasturage.

Indian subcontinent Muslims including Pakistan mainly eat beef (Cow ans Bullocks) and buffalow meat. many places they eat Camel meat.

Otherwise in villaege side they are mainly dependant on agricultral produce like vegetables like other Hindus. I have seen that Muslims in India who reside in Hindu ares generally desist from eating beef and Buffelow respecting sentiments of neighbours as it smells while cooking. I would not say it stinks.
 
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Ray

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Sacrifice - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

An animal sacrifice in Arabic is called ḏabiḥa (ذَبِيْحَة) or Qurban (قُرْبَان) . The term may have roots from the Jewish term Korban; in some places such as in Pakistan, qurbani is always used for Islamic animal sacrifice. In the Islamic context, an animal sacrifice referred to as ḏabiḥa (ذَبِيْحَة) meaning "sacrifice as a ritual" is offered only in Eid ul-Adha. The sacrificial animal may be a lamb, a sheep, a goat, a camel, or a cow. The animal must be healthy and conscious. ..."Therefore to the Lord turn in Prayer and Sacrifice. " (Surat Al-Kawthar) Quran, 108.2 Qurban is an Islamic prescription for the affluent to share their good fortune with the needy in the community. On the occasion of Eid ul Adha (Festival of Sacrifice), affluent Muslims all over the world perform the Sunnah of Prophet Ibrahim (Abraham) by sacrificing a cow or sheep. The meat is then divided into three equal parts. One part is retained by the person who performs the sacrifice. The second is given to his relatives. The third part is distributed to the poor. The Qur'an states that the sacrifice has nothing to do with the blood and gore (Qur'an 22:37: "It is not their meat nor their blood that reaches God. It is your piety that reaches Him..."). Rather, it is done to help the poor and in remembrance of Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his son Ishmael at God's command.
I have read that.

My own point is that your post raised my curiosity to understand as to why you mentioned that a Goat is for religious reasons for Christians and Jews..

I am aware that there is no religious reason attached to a Goat in Christianity and Jewry.

It is just that sheep was a prized possession for people of the Middle East in those times.

From my collection.

Abundance of Sheep LARGE NUMBER OF SHEEP IN PALESTINE From the days of Abraham down to modern times, sheep have abounded in the Holy Land. The Arabs of Bible lands have largely been dependent through the centuries upon sheep for their living. The Jews of Bible times were first shepherds and then farmers, but they never abandoned entirely their shepherd life. The large number of sheep in the land can be understood when it is realized that Job had fourteen thousand sheep (Job 42:12), and that King Solomon at the Temple's dedication, sacrificed one hundred and twenty thousand sheep (I Kings 8:63). Fat-tailed sheep the variety mostly in use. The fat tail provides reserve strength for the sheep, much like the hump does on a camel. There is energy in the tail. When the sheep is butchered, this fatty tail is quite valuable. People will buy the tail, or part of it, and use it for frying. That this variety of sheep was in use in ancient times is seen by references in the Pentateuch to the fat tail of the sheep. "Also thou shalt take of the ram the fat and the rump, and the fat that covereth the inwards" (Exodus 29:22). "And the fat that covereth the inwards, and all the fat that is upon the inwards" (Leviticus 3:9). [Manners And Customs of Bible Lands]

And Goat is not sacrificial as would be proved by this:

Goat Meat Use of the meat of kids. The meat of an adult male goat is of course rather tough, and so not ordinarily used. The female goats are seldom killed because they are needed to increase the flock. Thus it is the meat of the young male kid that is largely used in Bible lands. In Old Testament times, when visitors were entertained, often a kid was made ready for the meal (cf. Judges 6:19). The prevalence of the flesh of kids in CHRIST's day is brought out by the reference of the Prodigal's brother. "And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends" (Luke 15:29). There is sarcasm in this reproval, for the kid was of less value at a banquet than would have been a lamb, and considerably inferior to the fatted calf, which was killed and served on only special occasions to do honor to a very special guest. The brother was objecting to the father serving the fatted calf at the banquet honoring the return of the Prodigal, whereas he as the elder brother had not been given even a kid to make merry with his friends. [Manners And Customs of Bible Lands]

Therefore, A Lamb was more precious than a goat and so God gave a lamb when he asked for the sacrifice of the son to show love for God!

So, how is the Goat a religious issue?

As I understand it is not a religious issue in Christianity or Jewry.

For Eid ul Adha, as I know, you can sacrifice a sheep, cow, goat or camel and so on.
 
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Zarvin

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For Eid ul Adha, as I know, you can sacrifice a sheep, cow, goat or camel and so on.
And neither did the cricket players have to sacrifice a goat specfically. There was no actual significance of sacrificing the Goat as compared to other animals.
 

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