Why Al Qaeda finds no recruits in India

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by Rage, Dec 5, 2012.

  1. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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    Today's BBC:

    Why Al Qaeda finds no recruits in India

    [​IMG]

    Dec 05, 2012 l 02:25 GMT

    Andrew North, BBC News, Mumbai and Delhi,


    Habiba Ismail Khan can't forget the day her eldest son ventured out to get food and water.

    Their Mumbai slum had been overcome by communal rioting, sparked by the destruction of the Babri Mosque by Hindu hardliners in faraway Ayodhya.

    This week marks the 20th anniversary of that event, one of the biggest tests since independence of India's secular ideals.

    After days trapped inside, the sounds and smells of killing around them, he made a dash for supplies.

    "He was 18, the only earner," says Habiba. "My heart cries for him every day."

    Caught by a Hindu mob he never had a chance.

    No headway

    He was one of nearly 600 Muslims killed in the Mumbai riots, the bulk of the victims. At least 275 Hindus died too.

    But far from being spontaneous, a government commission later concluded much of the violence was an organised pogrom by Hindu extremists.

    Two decades later, Muslims remain a marginalised minority - although minority seems the wrong word for a group that numbers nearly 180 million, making India the third largest Muslim nation in the world after Indonesia and next-door Pakistan.

    Yet while its neighbour is in constant turmoil because of Islamic extremism, it's striking how little it has emerged in India.

    "Fundamentalism has not taken root here" says Vikram Sood, the former head of India's foreign intelligence service.

    While there have been bombings claimed by indigenous groups such as the Indian Mujahideen, they have been few and far between and there is no sign it has significant support.


    The biggest attacks in India involving Muslims have had clear evidence of Pakistani involvement.

    Despite having 10% of the world's Muslims to recruit from, al-Qaeda has made no headway here.

    And no Indian Muslim has gone to fight in Afghanistan with the Taliban. "Or even Kashmir," adds Sood.

    Yet the provocations have continued - with hundreds more Muslims dying in the 2002 Gujarat riots, when there was again clear evidence of Hindu extremists orchestrating the killing.

    After the death last month of Bal Thackeray, the leader of a right-wing Hindu party accused of a central role in the 1992 Mumbai riots, Habiba was bracing herself for a repeat.

    Little hope

    "Things can go wrong any time. We are just counting the days".

    One thing has changed though in Jogeshwari - a sprawling slum area with lanes so narrow residents often have to walk single file.

    Mixed areas have largely disappeared and there is now a clear division between Muslim and Hindu neighbourhoods. A road marks the "border" between what Hindus call "Little Pakistan'"and their side, Hindustan, or India.

    People in the Muslim part of Jogeshwari see little hope of their lives improving.

    "Only Hindus get good jobs, in banks or government," complains Habiba's neighbour Marzina, who moved into a cramped two-room house with her family after the riots for safety.

    The figures back her up - showing Muslims bumping along the bottom with Hindu untouchable castes and tribal groups in income, employment, literacy and access to education.

    While they make up 14-15% of the population, they hold barely 4% of government jobs and they are far more likely than other groups to be in informal employment, running street stalls or the like.


    Some Muslims are doing well: Indian movie stars like Shah Rukh Khan, Salman Khan and Aamir Khan.

    But they don't emphasise their heritage.

    Another big industry name with Muslim origins, film-maker Mahesh Bhatt, believes it helped him that his mother covered them up.

    She was Muslim but says she gave him a Hindu name to prevent his identity from becoming "an albatross"

    He now uses his movie fame as a platform to speak out for Muslim causes.

    India pretends to be more secular and inclusive than it is, he maintains.

    "Why does India celebrate a black man in the White House?" he demands when we meet at his Mumbai office.

    "I'll celebrate only when we have a Muslim in the prime minister's chair in India."

    'Another world'

    To critics, Bhatt is a habitual controversialist with a gift for a headline.

    But he is unusual in speaking up at all for India's Muslims. Unlike Hindus, they have no national political party representing them.

    There is a stronger tendency to keep quiet and work with the system.

    "We can't go and live in another world" says Dr Mohammed Khatkhatay who runs a charity providing education and training in Mumbai's slums, mostly to Muslims.

    In some ways, this is just common sense. However many there are, Muslims are still a minority. "If I pierce someone's eye," says Dr Khatkhatay, "the result will be the whole of our community goes blind."

    It's much harder for any cohesive Islamic identity - let alone militant ideology - to gain ground in India's huge and diverse society - where Muslims share little except their faith.

    So a Muslim from Kerala in the south who may be descended from seafarers has more in common with Hindus or Christians in the state than he does with Muslims from Uttar Pradesh in the north.


    The widespread adherence to more moderate, inclusive Sufi Islamic teachings have also helped stall the emergence of militancy.

    The government also has a tighter hold on madrassas or religious schools, which in Pakistan have become a bedrock of recruits for the Taliban and others.

    Looking across their borders to its majority-Muslim neighbours, Indian Muslims have concluded they are better off here argues Najeeb Jung, Vice Chancellor of Delhi's Jamia Millia University.

    "The big watershed was 1971" he says, when Bangladesh broke away from Pakistan. "If ever there was a romance with Pakistan, it was over then"

    Dr Jung is less gloomy about Muslims here, believing "they are faring as well or as badly as everyone else."

    But therein lies the danger. The economy has sagged badly in the past year with no sign yet it has bottomed out.

    "If we get the economy going again," says Vikram Sood, "all these issues will wither away. If it doesn't happen, they will multiply, disproportionately"



    BBC News - Why al-Qaeda finds no recruits in India
     
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  3. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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    Your thoughts??
     
  4. Iamanidiot

    Iamanidiot Elite Member Elite Member

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    @Rage do IMs need Al-Qaeda?.They have SP,MIM,Congress and a democratic set up to air their views
     
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  5. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    I'd go with the article. Vikram Sood lends credence.
     
  6. Phenom

    Phenom Regular Member

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    Why Kerala youth are part of fight for Kashmir

    That article is tailor made for western consumption. There is not much use even trying to analyse it.
     
  7. sesha_maruthi27

    sesha_maruthi27 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Who told that no Muslim fought in the Kargil war. I am from Ooty and a brave soldier from our place lost his life in the war and we all saluted for him and his name is ABDUL SATAR........
     
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  8. sesha_maruthi27

    sesha_maruthi27 Senior Member Senior Member

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    It was dawood and co who planted the bombs in 1993 and brought the two communities to war and riots and now when did hindu extremists do something.....
     
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  9. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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    This is an overly simplistic article outlining a very complex topic, but the statistics nonetheless support the conclusions of the article. It is true that Indian Muslims haven't got caught up in the wave of global Islamic radicalization and that is quite a blessing considering that India is a highly diverse nation of over a billion people.

    I must say though, a comparison with Pakistan is in some ways a false equivalency. For one, most of Pakistan is submerged in anarchy and there are virtually no social institutions for people to turn to. In turn the vacumme has allowed radicalized religiomaniacs to thrive. Second, what happened in Pakistan is largely an outcome of heavy social engineering perpetrated by the state itself which is not the case in India.


    India's problems are largely along the lines of social class distinction and not religion per se. And mind you this problem can end up being really, really serious if it isn't handled appropriately and soon.

    Urbanization has been a great equilizer for social disenfranchisement. Once a person is able to establish him/herself in an Indian city, religion no longer matters as much as it does in the rural hinterlands. Also working class Muslims in urban centers have made excellent use of economic opportunities in certain trades like butchery/meats, leather work, woodwoork etc, and the modern economic sectors have created opportunities for educated Muslims. However as the article rightly points out, this delicate balance is hinged entirely upon the condition of the economy and if the Indian "ruling class" screws this up the consequences will be quire dire.
     
  10. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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    If you're laying the blame solely upon Dawood for creating the rift then you're sorely mistaken. Hindu extremists are just as responsible for the chasm which they created through their idiotic displays of chauvinism. India's social problems will never go away as long as people keep denying facts and diverting blame. All the communities have to acknowledge their mistakes and be introspective for there to be any growth.
     
  11. sesha_maruthi27

    sesha_maruthi27 Senior Member Senior Member

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    People denying facts......... Do you know how many Hindus were murdered by the Mughal emperors in INDIA and do you know how many Hindus were murdered during the partition of INDIA and when Hindus were murdered during partition gandhi was saying to hindus that they should not kill muslims........

    Now u say that Hindu extremists did this and that......
     
  12. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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    Come on. You are not likening Al Qaeda to SP, the Congress and MIM, even in jest!

    Has this been a noticeable trend? Or only a one-off incident?
     
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  13. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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    *sigh*

    Well for one Hindu extremists did in fact do a plenty of "this and that"

    You mean to say Hindu fundamentalists are absolved of any wrong doings simply because the ancestors of their Muslim victims were in blood feudes with their own? Do you have any idea how silly this sounds? Holding responsible and dishing out punishment to a group of people who share the religion of a past enemy is asinine. In your emotionally infused little historical vignette you forgot to take into account that many Hindus also killed other Hindus, so by your logic the descendents of Kalinga have the moral right to exact any amount of intimidation and violence upon the descendents of the Maurian empire with impunity. I mean if you really want to settle scores on the basis of historical war casualties you're going to have to go back to the war between single cell organisms and your multicellular progenetors. Do you have any idea how many of your ancestors died in that war and still continue to fight an array of bacterias to this day? It makes the invasion of India look like a peace rally.

    As a side note, have you ever noticed that societies that are able to get past their differences in spite of terrible violence and concentrate on improving the present are far more successful than ones who don't? This is why the United States, Western Europe and Japan became so much more successful than say Iraq where people still kill each other because they haven't gotten over the fact that Ali took over from Muhammad. If you want INDIA to stop being a craphole you're going to have to get over your irrational views on Muslims
     
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  14. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    India should administer Pakistan to subdue their radical Muslims. The world would be a much safer place.
     
  15. parijataka

    parijataka Senior Member Senior Member

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    I agree with @IamAn, @Sesha and @Phenom.

    India has its own internal terror groups aided and supported from within morally and politically by people like Digvijay Singh.

    And as Sesha says many instances are there in which riots/violence are triggered deliberately.

    The article as @Phenom writes does seem tailored to Western audience.
     
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  16. KS

    KS Bye bye DFI Veteran Member

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    One of the reasons is Muslims know that when pushed to a limit, there is bound to be a retribution from the hindu majority. Hence the need not to succumb to Al-Qaeda ish idealogies. They know the numbers are not on their side and there are many instances of counter-rioting which have exacted a horrible toll on them.



    True...but India would be ruined. Our best bet is to build as high a wall as possible on the western frontier and guard it.
     
  17. VIP

    VIP Ultra Nationalist Senior Member

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You're misinterpreting riots with terror attacks. Riots are part of India from past 150 years irrespective of religion. Hindus-muslims, hindus-hindus and right now hindus-christians,too. You can't blame anybody here because everybody shares the same amount of their contribution. Hindu (so called EXTREMIST) groups were created because values of Hindu religion were at the bottom.To hold and spread those values among Hindus these groups were created. If somebody argues that hindu groups are only doing extremism like IM,AQ than he/she is wrong totally. These groups have nothing to do with extremism as they don't target any specific community to protect Hindu religion. As you need to feel their activities personally instead seeing through somebody's eyes as media doesn't give coverage to their main activities.Hindu groups don't retaliate that until somebody provokes them and you can't blame them as nobody can stop his urges, it's a basic human nature. Still these people understand and don't come out with swords,sticks after having a terror attack, they understand that.1993 was a terror attack (done by a local), including other terror attacks, they were done with a motive. So basically there's actually a major difference and you can't blame anybody for what happens AFTER 1993 bomb blasts.But yeah, dawood indeed sparked it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
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  18. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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    VIP, You're right about the riots in India and international terrorism involving AQ are very different. I was just pointing out to the fallacy in the post I quoted.
     
  19. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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    You're right. This is the real reason behind the phenomenon.

    Having said I find it amusing that for once the deficiency in law and order in India serves as a protective factor against a dangerous entity. This after all is the key difference between Indian Muslims who desist from global Islamic radicalism and the Muslims in the UK who openly subscribe to it.
     
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  20. SPIEZ

    SPIEZ Senior Member Senior Member

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    They should change their ideology to anti brahmeins, sure they could find some.
     
  21. KS

    KS Bye bye DFI Veteran Member

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    The only reason why I regard the VHP and BD as a necessary evil. There are times when one needs to play dirty and there needs to be someone who is willing to do that. If law and order in India had been pucca and independent of political control this would not have been necessary..but now it is needed.
     

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